081- School for Dog Walkers with Jess Bay
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Summary:
On today’s episode Jess Bay, owner of School for Dog Walkers, joins us to discuss what it is like to run and operate a pack walking dog business. After 20 years in the industry she has a lot of wisdom to share with us. We discuss what kind of policies and procedures you could have in place to save your sanity and how to safely operate a pack walk off leash.
Topics on this episode:
Why she made the switch from kennels to pack walks
Her screening processes
Introducing new dogs to the pack
Staying safe off-leash
Her favorite gear
Her first and most memorable clients
How the industry has changed the past 20 years
Longevity in pet care
Policies to keep you sane
How she uses her down time and self care
Main take away? Work on Recall. Recall. Recall! Take things slow and steady and do extensive prep work before you get out on the trails.
About our guest:
Jessica Bay is a pack dog hiker, online dog walking business coach and pet photographer. A pet industry veteran for more than 20 years, Jess runs the popular School for Dog Walkers blog and membership program, helping force free dog lovers turn their passion for pups into wildly successful dog walking careers.
Links:
Free resources for you!! https://www.schoolfordogwalkers.com/psc
Jess is reading: Everything is Figuroutable
Her website: www.schoolfordogwalkers.com
Email: jess@schoolfordogwalkers.com | 415.612.0472
Instagram @schoolfordogwalkers
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Facebook Group | School for Dog Walkers Community | https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolfordogwalkers/
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
dog, dog walkers, walk, people, client, pet, trail, business, leash, beagles, pack, run, policies, cancellations, hikes, kennels, called, easy, work, owner
SPEAKERS
Meghan, Collin, Jess
Collin 00:17
I'm Collin
Meghan 00:18
and I'm Megan. And this is pet sitter confessional. An open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter
Collin 00:24
brought to you by time to pet. Well, hello everybody and welcome back. Pack walks are growing in popularity across the country as more and more people are realizing that they have such wonderful benefits for their dogs. So how do you go about offering those? What kind of things should you consider? Are you going to be adventurous enough to offer off leash pack box? Well, today we are so fortunate to have Jess Bay, owner of school for dog walkers on to discuss all of those topics and so much more. After 20 years in the industry, she has a lot have information to share with us and her passion is for helping dog walkers get off the ground and have a successful business. So let's get started.
Jess 01:09
Most people call me Jeff. But my name's Jessica Bay and I run for dog walkers, which is an online membership program where I help or spray dog lovers start and grow their own dog walking businesses. And my focus is on fellow pack walkers. But I do help all different kinds of dog walkers. I'm also own and operate my own off leash pack hiking company part time. It used to be full time, but I've cut back part time so that I can do the online business coaching. And I also am a pet photographer. I've kind of dabbled in everything in the pet industry. And I've been working in the pet industry for more than 20 years now.
Collin 01:47
Where does all of that passion come from?
Jess 01:49
Yeah, I mean, similar to most people. I grew up with dogs. My mom loves St. Bernard's. So I grew up with St. Bernard, who was the same age as me from the time I was born. And I remember going to obedience classes when I was little, probably eight or nine and just none of the my siblings wanted to go but I would just go and watch the obedience classes for fun. And then eventually as I got older, I really wanted a dog of my own. So I made like charts and spreadsheets to show my mom how I could take care of a dog and raise money babysitting. But she said no, we have a family dog. No, no, you can't do it. And then eventually, a few years later, I found out about volunteer puppy raising to raise service dogs for people with disabilities. And I ended up talking her into let me do that because you don't actually keep the dog unless they are released from the program. So then I really got into learning more about dog training, because you train the dog for about a year and a half to two years. And my dog didn't make it I got the keeper. So it worked out great for me in that way. That's so cool. And I like the I can just envision you standing there and giving this big presentation about the pros and and how you're going to fit in with everything and get in. Take care. Have the dog. Yeah, totally, totally. I had spreadsheets about how I was going to pay for the vaccinations and stuff but it did not work on my mom.
Collin 03:09
Also, do you have any dogs of your own currently?
Jess 03:11
Yeah, I do. I have two beagles slash and cricket. Slash is turning 11 this weekend actually and cricket is eight. They're my babies. I love them. They're totally spoiled. beagles is kind of a I don't see a lot of people having beagles in their lives. What specifically about them, you know, drew you to that breed? Well, I started with labs because I was raising service dogs. And I just wanted something a little bit smaller that had the happy go lucky personality and easy Washington where coat and beagles kind of fit the bill. They are a lot more challenging I have to say then labs I had no idea when I got lashes a puppy how much energy she has. It was way above and beyond one of the lab has I mean, she would run circles in the backyard. And that was after going to work with For two pack hikes they're definitely a handful and a lot but I love them and they fit my lifestyle because I'm very active. I do lots of hikes and cricket comes to work with me a lot. So works well.
Collin 04:12
Yeah. Now your initial experience in pet care was with kennels and boarding facilities. What made you make that switch to doing pack walked and off the leash kind of walks?
Jess 04:26
Yeah, I started a kennel when I was really young and still in school. And it was just a job I saw that was available and I love dogs. So I took it. And then I eventually moved up to being a staff manager and running a dog daycare facility and as in charge of hiring and training of a new staff, which I loved hiring and training people but I did not love the management aspect of the job. And also when you work at a daycare, kennel, you have to work weekends you have to work holidays and when you're a manager. If someone calls in sick, you don't have enough staff. Sometimes you have to sleep at work. So that gets old after a few years. I was looking for something else to do and there was actually a dog walker that would come in and she would have technically a dog walker, but she It was more like a playgroup, she would rent one of our play yards and bring her dogs in there, I kind of was doing the math, I'm like, Oh wait, I could make more money probably doing that I wouldn't have to work 50 plus hours a week on a salary. I could be closed on weekends and holidays. And I had nine years experience at that point managing playgroups because all the kennels and daycares. I had work that had been focused on group play. So I had tons of experience and I had gone through the puppy raising experience. So I had lots of dog handling and training experience. I also volunteered teaching obedience classes while I was separating, so I had lots of experience just working with groups of dogs. And I wanted to play to my strengths and it's just so fun to be able to watch dogs play and work with them on their social interactions, just like Like for example, I love to take my packs out to the beach and just watch them run around at the beach. Like what's more fun than, like going out on ice did getting paid to watch dogs run and play? It's amazing.
Collin 06:06
Yeah. It is really neat to see them work in a pack and how all those personalities start clicking. But I know that I think you do some some screening beforehand to make sure that they all will, will match. So what does that process look like? And how do you make sure that's just not utter chaos?
Jess 06:25
Yeah, right. Absolutely. So I have a very in depth screening process that I do with all applicants for my pack walks. And it starts with an online application. And I ask basic questions, just weed out dogs that I know are not going to be a good fit at all. So for example, I don't take dogs that have a history of aggression with other dogs or with people. And then I asked about their social skills, are they good with, you know, all different breeds of dogs, all different sizes of dogs. All that kind of information is really important when you're getting matching dogs together. Sample it's really hard to take like a young puppy and group with adult dogs. A lot of adult dogs don't appreciate that. So just knowing like, the dogs that you have existing and their temperament and then matching the new dog takes a lot of screening. So after the online application, I also do an in person Meet and Greet, which right now because of COVID, I am grading them over the phone and that's actually working really well, surprisingly. But I asked tons of information about the dogs background everything from have they written in the car with other dogs before? What kind of experience do they have interacting with other dogs? For example, do they go to dog parks or kennels are daycares Have they gone with another pack Walker before? All these behavioral history questions just so I get a really good idea of what this dog's past behavior is, and I can better guess whether or not this dog is going to be a good fit for the pack that I have. And the main things are making sure the dog is non aggressive, not reactive and be social and friendly with others. Dogs. And then once we go through all of that, and the dog sounds like a good fit, then I will take the dog on a trial basis to ensure it's a good fit for everyone. So the client gets to kind of try out the service and make it clear to the client that we're going to make sure that their dog enjoys going out for the hikes with me and is fitting in well with the other dogs because I never want to put a dog into a situation where they're unhappy with the peg walks and peg walks aren't for every single dog. But for social dogs to enjoy going out with other dogs is a great fit.
Collin 08:33
Well, and what I'm interested in and that aspect is what does that initial introduction of the new dog to the established pack look like? What kind of things are you watching for and how do you work through that process?
Jess 08:45
Yeah, so on the dogs first day, I actually will instead of going and picking up a dog and putting it into a car with you know, I walk up to six dogs at a time so I don't want to throw a new dog in there with, you know, four to six dogs Come up and are like, Hey, who are you in a tight confined space, which can be really threatening. So first I've done all the screening so I have a good idea that the dog is going to do well. Second on the dogs first, they all either pick up that dog first or second so that they meet each new dog one at a time. And then I've watched their body language and behavior for any signs of fear and aggression. So signs that the dog is feeling uncomfortable things like being really stiff. Having like a whale eye which is where like the whites of the eyes are showing having hackles up, which can sometimes mean the dogs uncomfortable, it can also mean they're excited. So things like that and then as far as feared those watching for those fearful cowering, hesitancy, types of behaviors and reacting appropriately. So I also will separate the dog if there are concerns. I'll separate the dog from the other dogs in the car either in a crate or by putting them in on a tie down or in the front seat. If I have to. If I'm feeling unsure, but typically because of all this training I do, everything goes off without a hitch pretty well.
Collin 10:07
All of that initial prep work up front really does sound like it cuts off a lot of this back end work. As far as the guesswork, right, you're trying to cut out as much guesswork as possible whenever you finally start putting them together.
Jess 10:20
Exactly. You want to have an idea of what to expect.
Collin 10:24
And and part of I know what what you're passionate about is teaching force free care and dog care. So how does that play into your pack blocks when you've got them all out?
Jess 10:36
Yeah, so I use positive reinforcement methods to manage all the dogs in my care. So praise, treat, toys, things like that. I just like to have a positive bond with all the dogs that I walk with and I don't want to use fear and intimidation or hurt a dog that I'm watching. I want the dogs to be coming out and having a great time but also for them to have structure. When you have that amount of dogs in a group, you can't just have like a free for all you need to have control of them, especially when you're sharing trails with other people and other dogs. You don't want to have six off leash dogs running up to a toddler and their mom walking on the trail. So you do need to have control of your, your dog's bill. Every single hike that I do I incorporate training into recall is what we do the most recall practice all day long, just building that relationship and building the expectation of if they listen to what I asked they get a reward. And if they don't, there are consequences. Just because you're force free doesn't mean there aren't consequences. It's just they're not like physical corrections or something like that. We do things like timeout or loss of resources, things like that.
Collin 11:48
Yeah, it sounds like you know, most importantly there you are being extremely vigilant and constantly. I don't know if you're constantly doing corrections or just watching and trying to Keep up a step or two ahead of where the dogs are.
Jess 12:03
Yeah, so I don't really do like corrections. I mean, I'll do like a verbal no or something like that. But usually I don't have to the dogs listen really well. Most of the dogs I take are really motivated by food. And then you do have to be watching constantly, what's happening up on the trail, and all the dogs as I take each new dog are trained on the protocols of like, what behavior is expected of them. So things like when we see a bike coming on the trail, all the dogs know, that means we're going to all move over, we're going to sit while we wait for that bike to go by. We do the same thing when we see other dogs or people just because I don't want the dogs running up and jumping on them. And we do share public trails and have to get a permit for it. We don't want to lose access to that. So we have to be really careful about not offending anyone on the trail. So just teaching those basic protocols so that dogs know what to expect is really important and that's something that I do with every new dog that comes into the pack.
Collin 13:01
In the trails that you have, are there just a handful of them that you kind of rotate through or are there just one or two that you always go to?
Jess 13:11
Um, it depends. I'm really fortunate I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, just north of San Francisco and we have a lot of trails and open space available to commercial dog walkers. We do have to get permit. I don't even know how many trails there are. There's so many there's tons and tons of trails. I do have favorites, of course, that I like to use and I like to use for different situations. So for example, I have a puppy right now and I want a nice wide trail so that when we see bike some people I have plenty of time to get her over so that she can learn to fit before going past which is a lot easier for her when it's wider than if they're coming by it really close quarters. It's also great right now of Coronavirus. We have extra space. So I have a few favorites but we do have a lot of places to choose from including beaches just really nice.
Collin 13:59
Yeah. But that wide open space that allows you to you to also be able to stay on top of all those movements but just allows the dog to go out there and run around like crazy.
Jess 14:10
Right? Yeah. And I do also like trails where we can see what's coming yeah and advanced by just have a little bit of time
Collin 14:16
exclusively do off the leash walking, which, to me kind of gives me a mild panic attack. Just that's, that's something that we've only done very sparingly with only a handful of dogs. That's not something that I have a lot of experience with, though. You've mentioned a few of them, but what kind of other considerations for safe off leash dog walking Do you have or what you would recommend people think about?
Jess 14:40
Sure, yeah, so it's really common for people to worry about that and a lot of dog walkers don't want to let dogs off leash and that's totally fine. It is not for everyone. There definitely are risks involved anytime that you take a dog off the leash, so it's something you want to be really careful about and carefully consider. And the first thing you should do is make sure that you have insurance that covers off leash. Dog walks on many insurance companies do not. So make sure you have one that does before you go and let someone's dog off leash. And then I never just take a dog out and let them free The first time I meet them ever. So first I want to build up a relationship with them. And also during the screening process, I ask questions about the dog, you know, does the owner take the dog off leash, has the dog ever run away things like that, like if it's a dog that has a history of running off and running away and not listening, I'm not going to take that dog off leash. So I do work on recall, but if it's a dog that's taken off, I don't do that. I don't want to take that risk of getting a dog hit by a car or something like that. So I do use safe locations so they're not near road. So dog would need to run pretty far to get to a road but still I like to err on the side of caution. So we do the screening process and then the first few walks I just want the dog to get to know me and the other dogs and get to know the routine so I do not let them off leash. And then I start them out on the long line. Even if the owner says that they have excellent recall, I still start them out on a long line. And I use positive reinforcement. We use lots of trades, lots of praise. And we practice their recall in all sorts of situations. So we walk out on open space trails, we see a lot of bikes, we see a lot of hikers. Sometimes we see wildlife and I need to make sure that they're not going to chase here or something like that. So it takes a lot of practice on the long line, I build up a rapport with dogs and get a good idea of their response. And if they're responding really well on the long line with all these distractions, I will start to wean them off and I will let them drag the long line and we do the same thing. Keep practicing, I just have that safety of being able to step on that line if I need to. And then eventually we win them off that completely so it's kind of a slow and careful process just to ensure that I'm not letting a dog off. It's going to run off
Collin 17:01
Yeah, well in that process of saying, okay, like, we're going to do all this screening, and then we're going to take it really, really slow. And we're going to start building this. And as you mentioned there building that trust building, that relationship with the dog is not like your primary focus through each of these little steps.
Jess 17:20
Yeah, exactly. And just getting an idea of the dog's temperament and making sure that everything the owner has spoke to is matching up because sometimes dogs act differently with their honor than they do with me, they tend to actually get away with more with their owner than they do with me, actually, which works as a bonus for me, but that's because I have a lot of experience training and most dog owners don't, but it's just a constant thing. And sometimes we'll be let off leash faster than others just depending on how they respond. And I've been doing this for a long time. So I feel pretty confident letting dogs off if they're doing really well, but if I have doubts, I always err on the side of caution because I would never want to let somebody run off And be injured or something or lost. Yeah, I think that really is like way up there. And the number one things that we don't want to have happen and to do that you take all of these precautions, and I'm sure many people are listening going. That seems like really overkill. But it's really not because you're trying to eat you and the dog safe. Every time you go out. Yeah, right. If a dog runs off and you don't know where they are, like you don't know what they're doing. They could be eating poisonous stuff off the trail. They like getting rolling around with a patch of Fox hills, which I don't know if you have those there, but they get in the dog's nose and eyes and they're horrible. You know, they could be harassing other people on the trail. So it is it's really important. So have you ever had to retrieve a dog that's run out and what what was that like? Yeah, I have. I've been doing this for 13 years. So it has happened one time I had a dog run back to her house, which was probably half a mile from where the trail was, which was really scary. Come to find out The dog had been stung by yellow jackets on that trail owner had not told me and I've bent down to pick up up scoop up a poop dot her little Aussie butt running away. And I'm calling her luckily she just went to her house but yeah, it's it's terrifying and everything was fine. She lived just down the street and it's a quiet neighborhood. But it can happen so that's one of the reasons I you know, it is not for everyone fortunately knock on wood. I have never lost a dog had the dog like run off and we didn't know where they were and couldn't find them. But I attribute that to all the screening that I do. And that was kind of a freak thing that with that one dog but anytime you let dogs off leash there is a risk. If I had been walking in that dog five days a week for I think three years when that happened. She had never run off before so you'd never know.
Collin 19:54
Yeah, yeah, it just it just goes to show that that vigilance and and keeping those things in Mind like you have to be on guard for those kind of things and have procedures in place for what do you do?
Jess 20:07
Right? Yeah. And it's really important that you can stay calm if that does happen and have a clear head and take steps to rectify the situation as best as possible without, you know, having a breakdown. That's really stressful. If that happens,
Collin 20:23
well, yeah, because you have four or five other dogs that are also off leash that you have to also care for while you've got this one running away.
Jess 20:32
Exactly, yeah.
Collin 20:33
While you're out there, you're walking and you're getting prepped, what kind of gear Do you take out on the trail you the dog safe.
Jess 20:40
I have biomethane leashes with which I love. You can wipe them down and clean them. I always carry a citronella spray called spray shield. I use that in emergencies if there were a fight or something like that. That's the only time I use it. I think did use it on a coyote one, there are coyotes where we walk. So I did use it on a coyote when charging my group one time. Lots of trees bait bag. Lots of poop bags go through a lot of those. And then I have a whole bunch of stuff in my car like grooming wipes, brushes. All my client. Geez. Oh, I love the tailgate dumpster that cargo makes to put poop bags and when you're out hiking on a trail when there's no garbage cans, I love those. I have a couple of those do.
Collin 21:34
Yeah, cuz that was my next question is, is how do you pack all that poop out. And if you've got a dumpster that attaches to your car sounds like that's pretty nice.
Jess 21:41
Yeah, they're pretty small. So I have a couple of them. And then I also have the coop bag dispenser from Earth rated which has a little hook on the back that you can hook the bags on. So if you tie them together, you can get quite a lot of them on there. You don't have to carry them. So it's a lifesaver.
Collin 21:56
Yeah. Now how long are you taking the dogs out? walks.
Jess 22:00
Yeah, our hikes are 45 minutes to an hour. But that doesn't include travel time, I try to keep my pickups to 30 minutes or pick up a 30 minute for drop off total. So they're out of the house for two to three hours usually
Collin 22:14
being gone for so long. How do you adapt your walk plans with things like inclement weather or bad air quality or those kinds of things,
Jess 22:21
I go over all of that when I do my meet and greets with with my clients when they're aware in advance, but I do shorten hikes if needed. Luckily, the climate where I live is very mild, we live right by the ocean. So we don't have too many hot days. But if we do, we do things like walk at places where it's shady, short, and the walk. clients know like if it's really hot, like over 90 degrees, we may only stay out for 20 minutes or something like that. I kind of watch how the dogs are doing and if they look like they're starting to get too warm, we go back or we'll just hang out under a tree in the shade and we'll practice will be commands instead of actually doing a hike, I carry water. I give them water in the car after, but any type of like bad weather. So rainy days, hail, things like that will just shorten the hike and the clients know when they understand and they appreciate that I'm not going to keep their dog out when miserable weather out
Collin 23:17
what I like there is that you also were saying, well, an alternative to the full walk is we'll also use some of this time to do obedience. And I really that's not something that I had even considered of. Okay, we're not going to be doing the full walk. But we're still going to spend this time together and work on recall and all these basic principles. I think that's really cool.
Jess 23:36
Yeah, we'll do that. And also, we'll do what I call a sniffing walk, which is like a stroll, we go really slow and I let the dog sniff anything and everything that they want. We don't cover a lot of ground, but they love it and it's great mental stimulation for them.
Collin 23:51
I think that's probably the experience that most of us have when we take dogs on a walk is that they just want to sniff everything and we're kind of fighting them on that going. So
Jess 23:59
yeah. Thank you. No, I let them sniff but they also know when I say Okay guys, let's go. It's time to go.
Collin 24:07
Yeah, I've watched several dogs where you make it about five feet and you're like, Okay, well, 30 minutes later, I think it's time to try and head back because
Jess 24:15
yeah, believe me, I have beagles. I understand. Right. Yeah.
Collin 24:19
You know that?
Jess 24:21
Yeah, my client dogs are way better than my big goals. I spoil them. So yeah, well, I know that routine. Well, you're
Collin 24:28
thinking about in the pet care industry. What kind of unique challenges do dog walkers face compared to other forms of care that people are providing?
Jess 24:38
I think one of the biggest challenges dog walkers have right now is just the fact that the general public doesn't realize that there's a big difference between like a qualified professional dog walker and somebody who's just walking dogs for extra cash like a kid in the neighborhood or something like that. professional dog walkers are actually really skilled, and they're licensed, they're insured. Things like that they won't flake out on you like a neighborhood kids gonna be like, Oh, I'm gonna hang out with my friends. Sorry, I can't walk your dog, which I'm sure pet sitters experienced that as well. And they know a lot about dog behavior and management so they can kind of look ahead and scan like I do with my packs, and see if there's any issue coming and prevent problems before they start prevent any altercations with other dogs, and just know how to handle unexpected things and how to read dog behavior and no signs of fear or stress that a dog is having and how they should react to it and they know what to do in an emergency. They are certified in pet first aid and CPR. So if you're getting a lot different experience if you hire a professional dog walker than just a regular person who's doing it for a little extra cash and I think a lot of members of general public don't really know that. It's something that we need to do more education on so that German public has Just aware of that.
Collin 26:01
I was just about to say that it's really hard to get across that kind of experience and what it actually gets you as a client of 20 years experience versus two weeks experience in in the business, like that's hard to get across in an ad or sometimes even on a website is you're you're having to do this heavy lifting of educating, educating, educating,
Jess 26:24
right, yeah, I have spent a lot of time on my marketing and marketing message to get that message across. Because as any dog walker, I'm still working out working dog walker, as well as a business coach. So I'm in the trenches, and I know how it is to have to compete with other companies that are charging way less than what you can, especially if you're a solo Walker, having really good marketing, like I charge a lot more than other dog walkers and I still have a waitlist and get lots of inquiries. And I chalk that up to a lot of the marketing that I do that kind of communicates that message to the public that way They should pay more for what I offer rather than someone who's got a couple weeks experience.
Collin 27:05
It is an uphill battle. Someone goes, Oh, walking the dog. Well, I the owner do that, but I don't want to. So why would I pay this this exorbitant price to do that and having to go well, this is all the stuff that you're getting like it trying to do those those value ads and all these assurance and as you mentioned, like the background and training and the guarantees that you're able to provide. But yeah, that that that hurdle seems like that. That's kind of hard.
Jess 27:32
Yeah. And one of the things that pack walkers can do is like we offer a service that different than solo walkers and a lot of pet owners, they have one dog or they have two dogs maybe and they can't get their dog out and like this social experience and love less they go to the dog park and a lot of people don't like going to dog parks. They've had altercations with other dogs there and they'll really relate to the idea of getting their dog out with other dogs that have been screened for Brett lay with other dogs. So just focusing on things like that, especially if you're a pack Walker is a great way to do it because that's something that the owner can't provide on their own.
Collin 28:08
Yeah, really going after that. I mean, that's a that's a problem that they want solved. And being able to clearly articulate, I will solve that for you. Right. I can do that.
Jess 28:17
Exactly. Yep.
Collin 28:18
The conversation of clients. I am curious if you remember your, your very first client.
Jess 28:24
I do. I do. My first client was a bernese Mountain dog named Kota. And they found me on Craigslist. This was back in 2006. When I first started, I used to advertise on Craigslist. He was a great dog. And he's like, just the kind of dog a client I was looking for. So I knew when I got him that I was doing something right. I still didn't know what what exactly I was doing. But I did something right there. He was a great dog. Oh, yeah, I know. Megan and I had a very similar experience for our first client. It was like, Wow, you're like really amazing. Like what am I don't even know what I'm doing. Fully right now and you're awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, no, he was totally like that he was an awesome dog.
Collin 29:06
How about your most impactful client?
Jess 29:08
That would probably have to be this yellow lab that I walk named Abby, we gentle, best yellow lab. I started walking her when she was a year and a half old. And I walked through twice a week, for 13 years. Until she passed away. She so she grew up with me and my pack and like I saw her owners go from being you know, a couple moving and having two kids. It was just amazing getting to work for them for so many years. And just she was like my other dog, you know, as are many of the dogs that I walk because I do walk them for many years. But Abby was the longest client that ever had though. And it was over 13 years that I walked her.
Collin 29:49
Wow, you talk about being a part of somebody's family caring for their team dog for 13 years. That's amazing.
Jess 29:57
Yeah, yeah.
Collin 30:01
Have you heard about time to pet? Dan from NYC pooch as this to say I'm Tibet has been a total game changer for us. It helped us streamline many aspects of our operation from scheduling and communication to billing and customer management. We actually tested other pet editing software's in the past, but these other solutions were clunky and riddled with problems. Everything in time to pass has been so well thought out. It's intuitive feature rich and it's always improving. If you are looking for new pet sitting software for your business, give time to pet a try. As a listener of pet sitter confessional, you'll get 50% off your first three months when you sign up at type two pet.com slash confessional. Since you've been in the industry for 20 years now, how has it changed?
Jess 30:47
Well, I'd say one of the biggest things that changed is technology. Back when I first started, I started working in tech kennels and stuff in 1997. And then I started my dog walking business in 2006. Even in 2006, like social media advertising wasn't really a thing. Like, I don't think I joined Facebook until I don't think I knew about it until like, maybe a year later or something like that. And Instagram was not a thing. So the way that we market has changed a lot since then. And it's made it a lot easier. I used to have to pound the pavement, like go to pet stores and drop off cards and flyers, and now I just post on social media, from home. It's great. So that's one of the things and then let's see, there's a lot more positive reinforcement and forced free training methods that are happening now, which is a great thing to see. When I first started out working in kennels, shock collars are really popular. And so we're, you know, a lot of aversive training methods that were not my favorite things. It's been really nice to just see that evolve and be the members of the public just kind of pick up on that and start changing the way they do things. And just an awareness that dog walking exists as a service. Steve ban like, people didn't like know that that was even a thing like their dogs would stay at home for 910 hours a day while they went to work and maybe have access to the backyard and that was it. So just that knowledge that it is a thing and that is something that you can do for your dog to make their life better. So all positive things really that I've noticed that the biggest change
Collin 32:23
I mean, it's kind of you're saying what are your first first like kind of off Craigslist it kind of even thinking about that going oh my gosh, like I don't even know anybody who uses Craigslist these days.
Jess 32:32
I can't remember the last time I did I like it probably in 2006 started.
Collin 32:38
Yeah, but it is it is so much easier. We're able to to cast a wider net and and really, really target people. And then you know, when you mentioned there that the sports arena that have really started increasing in popularity. Why do you think that is in the general public?
Jess 32:55
I think just through education and like popularity of like Victoria is still Wells show on animal planet was really popular. And I think that helps spread awareness that we don't have to use all these forceful techniques to train our dogs, we can use gentler method methods instead. And most dog or dog owners love that, like, no one wants to have to jerk their dog around. It's not fun for you. It's not fun for the dog. So being able to just do trending, that's fun that your dog enjoys. I think just being aware that that's something that is effective and works just spread and everyone is kind of changing their mind shift that way a little bit, a lot more since it was definitely back in the 90s.
Collin 33:41
Yeah, it really sounds like just this overall awareness of people who can provide better care for their pets. They still want their pets around, or they've always had their pets around. But as a society, it's kind of been like, Oh, we can be doing things a little better. We can provide these This care by having them go on pack walk, or these daycares and use these better methods. There's just been this, as you mentioned, this overall awareness is increasing awareness of a better way to do things. Yeah. And you'll see you see that in the whole pet industry with like, better dog foods, better toys, all kinds of things that are a lot better than they were back then. Yeah, which is, which is something as pet sitters in 2020, to be really thankful for all of that work from pet sitters in years past that have put in that? And to know that, you know, we still have education to do but we've come such a long way from you know, 1020 years ago. Yeah, definitely. And, and thinking about longevity in this industry that seems to have a pretty high turnover for a lot of people. So what would you say is the key or something that people can work on or staying in the game for a long time?
34:52
Yeah, for me, it's been like constantly improving my business and evolving with time. I made a lot of mistakes when I first started out, as I'm sure anyone does when they're starting their business. That's one of the reasons I am offering coaching now to help people avoid those mistakes that I made. So they can kind of have some faster progress. But just really keying in on what those client's needs are and gearing your marketing towards solving an issue that they have, and continuing to learn and improve in everything that you do so that you can have the best service and just rolling with the punches. I mean, especially now with COVID, a lot of workers have been hit hard by cancellations and things like that. So just going through that I went through the recession also right after I started my business in 2006. And, you know, I didn't have very many clients and I ended up getting a part time job for a little bit at a pet store where I could refer myself for dog walking back then so that I can make it through that. So you know, you've got to get scrappy sometimes to get yourself through And once you're established, things are a lot easier. I've handled the the COVID situation a lot better than I did back then in 2006. But just being able to kind of pivot what you're doing so that you can get through tough situations is really important.
Collin 36:14
Yeah, I mean, we would just finish talking about how the mindset and awareness of pet care industry changed over 20 years. And that means a lot of people had to pivot and change how they operated during that time, and even more so in times like a financial crisis, or COVID. needing to change up services and how you meet those needs.
Jess 36:35
Yeah, absolutely. It's really important.
Collin 36:37
So how has it impacted you and your business?
36:40
Yeah, so I have policies in place that protect me pretty well, from client loss. However, if I have clients, I do have clients that were affected affected financially. So I'm not going to hold them to keeping their dog on if it's not something they can afford. So I did lose a few clients. So I actually updated my marketing message went through my website I was off work for about eight weeks. So I took that time to kind of look at my business decided, was there anything that I wanted to change? What could I do to better attract people to my website? And I realized my marketing could be stronger. I've changed my marketing message a couple times since I've been in business. The first time I realized what it was after I'd been in business five or six years, and I realized I was just advertising as a dog walker. And I should have been advertising that I was a dog hiking company, because that's what I was doing. But I just just calling it dog walks, not dog hikes, which I was like, oh, gosh, whoa, how silly Why didn't I think of that before? So I changed everything to hikes and hiking adventures at that time, and I saw my inquiries from new clients just skyrocket. So during this I realized I needed to put more emphasis on all the training that I do, but the dogs, so I kind of revamped my website and did that and again, disappointed COVID I have seen my new client increase, skyrocket, and I again have a waitlist of dogs waiting to get it.
Collin 38:09
Wow. And what's so cool about that is you didn't change everything whole cloth. Right? You You looked at where your strengths were figured out a better way to communicate that and then promoted, maybe some things that you were already doing is kind of emphasize those a little more.
Jess 38:28
Yep, that's exactly what I did. I just made sure that my marketing message was really clear that when people come to that the website at first glance, they're like, Okay, this purpose, this dog walker is different than all these other dog walkers. That gives them a reason to choose me and gives them a reason to pay the premium rates that I charge as well.
Collin 38:45
Because I think when a lot of people think of, oh, I've got a pivot or I've got to change what I'm doing, they immediately think of and I know this comes to my mind is what kind of services do we need to add? What services do we need to cut what all this stuff and in this step of going well? What are my strengths? And how do I let people know what those strengths are, before I go changing everything and the whole business in such a, as you mentioned earlier with the reinforcement, like that's such a positive outlook on the situation to make those changes.
Jess 39:14
Yeah. And it's something that a lot of dog walkers are not doing, and that they can easily spend some time, especially if they are slow right now to work on and to improve on so that they can get more increase in. You mentioned about policies a little bit. You have a mindset that policies can save our sanity and prevent burnout. Could you talk through what that means and how people can start implementing that? Yeah, so one of the things I learned working at dog daycare was, I was so burnt out from that job, like I was working over 50 hours a week and sometimes would have been at work because the overnight person would call out sick, and I did not want to have that with my dog walking business at all. I set up policies from the very beginning. And the first one was Setting business days and hours. And I didn't want to work weekends. So I don't work weekends. And that's one of the great things about dog walking, it would be really hard to do that with pet sitting because that seems to be, you know, weekends and holidays are really, really popular times for pet sitters. But dog walkers, depending on who your clientele are. You don't have to work weekends and holidays, days if you don't want to. I target working professionals. They have weekends and holidays off anyway, and they walk their own dogs. So I took those business hours and I stick to them. So when I'm close, I'm close. So I don't respond to emails. I don't respond to text messages, phone calls. And I can't say that I do it. 100% say like 95% of the time.
40:49
I'm not nobody's perfect, but it's really important to have that boundary of Okay, I'm working now. I'm not working now. Especially when you're doing office work and stuff from home and you're not out in the field actually walking dogs just don't want to burn yourself doing that. burn yourself out doing that. And also, I take vacations. And I see so many dog walkers that never take vacations and they say, Oh, I can never go on vacation and totally go on vacation. You just need to plan in advance and I'm a solo Walker. I have had employees in the past but now I'm fellow and I love it. And I still take vacation. I just took a week vacation off and I have no issues my clients understand they know that I need vacations and usually when I let them know grand vacation, they say great, you deserve a break. So making sure that you take vacations that business hours are both really, really important to prevent burnout. And as far as like saving your sanity goes. Have a cancellation policy. Because I know a cancellation cancellations can kill you financially and be really frustrating. Same time. So make sure you have some things that up for cancellations, so that, you know, if you show up to walk a dog and the dogs not there, and they didn't tell you, you should be getting paid for your time. You shouldn't be giving them a credit. That's not your fault. If they didn't tell you, I also actually limit the number of cam cancellations that clients can make each year. Because I'm a solo dog walker, I only have a limited number of dogs that I can take every day, if people are canceling constantly, that really cuts into how much income you're making. When you're a small solo Walker, you can't afford to lose you know, thousand dollars a month because of cancellations. Like that's, that's not acceptable. So just setting up a policy that will help you with that either limiting how many cancellations the client can make per year after which they still can cancel but they have to pay for the lock or going to like a flat rate policy if they pay a certain rate every month and kind of like a gym membership. Whether you use it or lose it right so you don't have To give refunds for that, and then learning to say no, you know, a lot of people have trouble with that they want to please their clients, which I get it. I do too. But sometimes you've got to say no. So if someone calls and say they're five minutes outside my service area, I tell them, no, I'm sorry, you're outside my service area. And they're like, it's only five minutes. I'm like, Yes, but that's five minutes each way, that's 10 minutes times, however many days in the month, like I'm working, you know, three extra hours. I don't get paid extra for that. So, I mean, that's not how I say it to the client. But that's how I think about it in my head. It makes it easier to say no. So if you have trouble saying, No, that's something definitely have to work on if you're going to be so low and you're going to handle it yourself and not hire like a manager specifically to do that for you. But just being able to enforce your policies. And I know when I first started out, I kind of just was like, Okay, well, you know, when I used to work at my other job, I had to enforce the policies. I can do the same thing as my own business. So it's possible Billy says, gotta get in that mindset that, you know, I have the policies and I'm gonna stick to them and I set them up for a reason.
Collin 44:05
Yeah, well, it just I mean, copy and paste is so easy. If you have it in your policies, just copy and paste it to say no, instead of you know, that way, you're not having to make it up on the spot every single time, right? If you have to say at one time, put it in a policy, so you don't have to ever say it again. And it kind of takes that burden off of your shoulders.
Jess 44:23
And I remind clients to like I'll send out email reminders of policies every time a client cancels, I say, Great, thanks for canceling. Just a reminder, you know, we have you have this many credits per year. That way, there's no surprises, no one gets upset. We've already gone over all the policies of the meet and greet and then I go over them again and again and again with them. So it makes it really easy.
Collin 44:45
And I will say on the cancellation policy, yeah, it is a that is so crucial. And it's kind of one of those I don't know if you get this too, it's kind of like one of those guilty pleasures of when somebody cancels, it sucks, but if they do it within the cancellation policy, You're still getting paid to not work. And you can go on and do other stuff. Sometimes there's so foundational and having the business. Yeah, it's essential, because if you don't have one, it will drive you nuts. Yes. You touched on this a little bit earlier on how things have changed since the late 90s. Was technology in the role of social media. What role does that play in social media play in the pet care business?
Jess 45:26
Yeah, I love social media for spreading brand awareness is like the number one thing I use it for. I also use it for a perk for my existing clients.
45:35
But it's a great way, especially Instagram, I'm a big Instagram user to get local followers and engage with people in your area. And it's really easy to do because you can just search hashtags. You can search by location tags, and look for pictures of dogs and comments on them and engage with those people. A lot of times they'll check out your Instagram feed and they'll start following you. And then as long as you are posting like helpful And relevant content, then they'll continue to engage with you and see your post. Which means when they need to hire someone, they're gonna think of you because they're like, oh, there was that dog walker on Instagram. Who was that? Oh, yeah, they're gonna go back and, and find you and then hire you. So it's a great way to market. It does take some time. I recently launched a program called templates for pet pros, which is part of school for dog walkers, where I do 10 new social media graphics every month. For pet businesses, not just for dog walkers, it's for any dog focused business, their dog daycare, that's there, anything like that, just to build engagement that takes a lot of time for to actually like sit down and be like, Okay, what the heck do I post about and then I've got to make like pretty graphics that look nice and match my brand. So I recently started doing that just been a lot of fun and has had a really good response and it's a great program for people who don't have the time or aren't sure what to post and they're just templates for Canvas. So you're not familiar with Canva canva.com. It's a great resource, create your own graphics.
Collin 47:10
We use Canva for a lot of stuff that we do. And we are not graphic designers by any stretch of the imagination, like not even close in five minutes working in Canva. And I'm like, Whoa, like, do I have skills? No, it's just doing it all for me, but I'll take some of the credit.
Jess 47:26
Yeah, yeah, it's easy to use. Oh, and it's free. The Canva is free. The templates aren't free. Canvas free so I yeah, there was there aren't a lot of job related ones. And so I I make dog related ones with fun tips and stuff like that.
Collin 47:40
So we've mentioned it several times. And I want to let you talk about school for dog walkers and who is it for and why you decided to start it?
Jess 47:49
Sure. Yeah. So school for dog walkers is an online membership program where I offer business coaching. For dog walkers anywhere from brand new dog walkers to people have been in business for a while, but they're struggling to get enough client clients or reach their business goals or they're getting really burnt out and they just need help getting their business so that it's working better for them. And I specialize in helping for three fellow pack walkers to start and grow their business. And we set it up so that they can stay solo if that's something that they want to do, but also set it up so that they have systems and processes so that if they want to expand in the future they can. And the reason I started is because other dog owners kept asking me for business help and I realized there was a need for this and the market. And I just started a blog. Go for dog walkers started off as a blog. And there's over 50 blog posts on there now I believe it just started giving out like free content and kind of seeing if there was interest in it and sure enough, there was so I decided to launch the membership program. And I just love helping other dog walkers. I want to make people aware that like Bob Walker can be a real career. And it's a great career like I write right now I work part time doing dog walking. And I if I wanted to do that as my sole income in San Francisco Bay Area, I could because very lucrative, very fun. And I love it and I just want to help other people have that same experience, if they want.
Collin 49:24
Yeah, I think a lot of us start with this passion, and we're pets and we're doing, we're taking care of them. And sometimes it we ourselves, have trouble guiding and focusing it into something that's gonna work for us, that can earn us a living that can so that we can treat it like an actual job like an actual business. And so, you know, hearing that, you saw that and went, well, I can help those people. I can come alongside them and give them some tips and start this program so that they can do that. They can go off and do what they love and do it well.
Jess 49:57
Yeah, exactly. That's what it's all about. It's all about Helping people do that while maintaining that work life balance so that they don't get burnt out,
Collin 50:06
which is really all too common as we've discussed.
Jess 50:08
Yes, it is,
Collin 50:11
though, thinking about maybe dog walkers, but also clients, too. So there's kind of two answers to this. What's one thing you wish more people knew about life of a dog walker?
Jess 50:23
Going back to what I said earlier? As far as clients go, I would say, you know, there, there's a big difference between hiring a skilled professional and a neighborhood kid. As far as what people who are interested in being dog walkers or dog walkers, what they should know, probably be, first of all, dog walking is a great career. It's a real career that you can have. So if this is something you're passionate about, and you love hanging out with dogs and you want to have a career as a dog walker, you absolutely can. You just need to take the right step to make everything work for you so that it's profitable, and just that it's not awesome. So just playing with puppies all day. It is actual work. So you do have to be out there in inclement weather and rain and cold in heat. And it's not all fun all the time I had a poop bag exploded all over my pants one time, for example. So for the but there are those days where you're out there and the weather is perfect. And you're watching your pack, run and play and you're like, Oh my gosh, I cannot believe I'm getting paid for this.
Collin 51:30
It is work. It's a lot of work can be really enjoyable. And if you have those policies, you have these things in place that can allow you to enjoy those times.
Jess 51:40
Definitely,
Collin 51:41
when you're not out there doing the hikes with the dog, what kind of things do you like to do for your downtime, or some self care?
Jess 51:48
I love being out in nature which ties in with me being a dog hiker and why I chose that for my business. So I love going up to my family cabin and hanging out there. There I just did that over Fourth of July holiday. It was so nice and relaxing. Where I basically hike my own dogs instead of quiet dogs. I'm really into photography. My, my spoiled beagles have their own Instagram account at little hound dog on Instagram if you didn't check it out. I'm really into doing photography with them. I love reading right now I'm reading a really great business book actually called everything is figure out a ball by Marie Forleo which is a great book free reading right now especially with all the challenges we have going on. And then just being with my dogs, we compete in nose work when COVID is not happening. We do those work competitions, which is a lot of fun. Also,
Collin 52:44
how did you get into pet photography?
Jess 52:46
I actually started doing it. When I was a puppy raiser to document you raise the puppy for sir for about a year and a half to two years and then if they graduate and go on to someone else. I wanted to have like a photo album. Like as Back when scrapbooking was in, when I had my first puppy that I was puppy raising, I wanted to do that. And I realized that I really enjoyed doing it. And it kind of evolved from there.
Collin 53:10
Well, and I think of the role that photography plays in the, in the business of a pet sitter and of a dog walker, right, we're taking a lot of pictures and sharing those on social media. And so were those those skills that you just developed over time or did you seek out classes or get outside help?
Jess 53:31
For a long time I just practice them practice on my own. I eventually did take some courses I took like a regular photography class at a at a high school. And then there is a great program right now for pet photographers called hair of the dog Academy. They have a podcast actually which is great and they have a huge Facebook group of if pets pet photography is something you're interested in. I you could check into that it's Really great top notch program for pet photographers. I think it's just called there's a couple pet photography podcasts like there's that. I think hers is called pair of the dog Academy. It's Nicole Begley. There's also another one called the pet photographers club which is a great podcast as well.
Collin 54:18
Yeah, that was the one I was thinking of.
Jess 54:20
Okay,
Collin 54:20
if you want to dive really off the deep end and learn all about that those those two podcasts are really really cool and I just love hearing them talk about all the ins and outs and really can't you know geek out on gear and all sorts of stuff with them. It's fascinating. Listen to
Jess 54:37
Yeah, I subscribe to both of those listened to every episode.
Collin 54:42
Jess I want to thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing all of this. It's I just am blown away by everything and and again, so thankful for you taking the time out of your day to come on and share this with us. But I know we just barely scratched the surface. Especially for the The school for dog walker stuff. So if people want to go and learn more about that and follow you, how can they do that?
Jess 55:07
Yeah, absolutely first, thank you so much for having me. This has been a lot of fun. Let me give you some info. So the website is school for dog walkers calm and you can find the blog there also. And I've actually put together some resources for your listeners with some free downloads on the screening questions for off leash dogs and social media post ideas. And they can also get the dog walkers guide to a profitable business 10 tips to attract your ideal client and avoid burnout and they can get for free of Canva templates if they want to try those out too. And to get those they can just go to school for dog walkers comm forward slash PSP for pet sitter confessional and you can also follow for dog walkers on Instagram and Facebook, at school for dog walkers and both of those places. And I also have a Facebook group the school for dog walkers community And if you want to follow my two beagles on Instagram, their account is at little hound
56:05
dog,
Collin 56:06
and everyone should go follow them. They're adorable.
Jess 56:10
Thank you.
Collin 56:11
I will have have links for those in the show notes. And those resources that you put together are just are just wonderful. Thank you so much. I'm happy to offer them I hope that people enjoy them. Again, just it's been a real pleasure having you on and we hope to be able to have you on again soon. Oh, I would love that. Thank you so much. After my conversation with Jess, I am seriously thinking about ways that Megan and I can provide pack walks in our area. I don't know forever be brave enough to offer off leash pack walks. But I think that's something that we can and probably should be working towards. It sounds like it's a really great opportunity and Jess's clients absolutely love it. And I really had three big takeaways from today's conversation. Recall, recall if you can work on something with the pets that you're caring for, work on recall and then When you are bringing in new pets to take it so slowly, and really work on building and strengthening that relationship and that bond between the two of you. And third, and finally, we can't say it enough is take time for yourself. Again, that seems so weird to think about considering what 2020 has been like so far, but don't forget these moments. And remember, it's okay to take time off. Next year when we get busy again, remember, it's okay to take that time off and make sure that you are okay. We have so much in store for this year and moving forward. So make sure you never miss a beat by following us on Facebook and Instagram at pet sitter confessional. You can also check out our website pet sitter confessional dot com and we have a way to sign up for our weekly newsletter. We use this newsletter to provide extended information for each of our episodes that we sent out as well as giving a breakdown on recent things happening in pet care and our thoughts on that. Again, you can sign up for that newsletter at pet sitter confessional.com
