170: Leashes and Leads with Taylor Leedahl
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Summary:
Taylor Leedahl, owner of Tiny Horse Mercantile, is determined to help build a better connection between dogs and their handlers through building quality leads, leashes, and accessories. Taylor shares the philosophy of her design and how she manages multiple dogs at the same time. We discuss how the leash functions as a two-way communication tool and how good gear helps prevent injury and strain. Taylor also talks about her design process and what it’s like receiving negative feedback.
Topics on this episode:
The idea for the Lead-All
Managing multiple dogs at the same time
Why use your own gear?
Being a designer of products
Main takeaway: Using good tools in your business means a more efficient, safe, and professional system.
About our guest:
Collaboration, the acquisition of new skills, and creativity have inspired my professional development. Driven by my enthusiasm and desire to connect with others, my background in arts administration has produced a skill set that can juggle multiple tasks, manage time efficiently, and devise content and programming that contributes to an organization's mandate and brand identity. I thrive in high-paced, project-based environments where collaborative idea development is crucial. Co-founder of TinyHorse, a Toronto-Based company designing gear for the dog walkers: professional tools for an emerging professional industry.
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
dogs, leashes, dog walkers, horse, tools, leads, people, tiny, materials, prototypes, pack, product, gear, walking, pet, bit, pet sitters, feedback, ring, walk
SPEAKERS
Collin, Taylor
00:17
Hi, I'm Meghan.
00:18
I'm Collin. And this is pet sitter confessional,
00:21
and open and honest discussion about life as a pet
00:24
sitter brought to you by time to pet and pet sitters International. The tools any professional decides to use in their business speaks volumes about them. And leads, leashes and the tools that we use in dog walking and pet sitting, are no different. Today, we're really excited to have Taylor Leedahl owner of tiny horse and mercantile to discuss all about the ins and outs of leads and leashes, how it can help lessen the strain on our bodies, and improve the communication between us and the dogs that we're caring for. There's a lot to cover here. Let's get started.
01:00
Thanks for having me, Colin, I'm very excited to talk about tiny horse, I started walking dogs 2017. And within just a few months of walking dogs, I was finding a lot of pain and strain on my wrists and thumbs, making it very difficult to spend time on my smartphone scrolling. And so I decided to utilize some of my background in sewing and design to come up with something that would put less pressure on my body while managing multiple dogs. So after a few prototypes, I came up with essentially what is now you can find on my website, the leader leash system. And I tried that out. And it's almost immediately started to reduce the pain in my hands and wrists. And I made it just for myself at first but quickly. There were other dog walkers in the park that I was walking in and the asking, What is this thing that you're using? Where do I get it? And so that's when it kind of became a business.
02:13
Got to ask about your name, tiny horse and where that name came from for your business?
02:18
Yeah, so it's kind of two things, I suppose the first is that I have a tiny little pocket Beagle. She's wicked fast. And when she's running, chasing after squirrels, she never catches. She looks like a tiny horse running. So it's a little bit named after my dog, Abigail potato. And then movement, that tiny horse that fast swiftness that she has. But also there actually, I'd have to look into exactly which geological epoch it is. But I think the plio Steen horses, as we know them were actually dog sized, tiny, tiny little pre historic horses are just like, tiny. And if you don't know about it, whoever's listening, definitely Google it, you will enjoy seeing these tiny, tiny little horses, it's a real thing.
03:23
That's adorable. I didn't know about that either.
03:26
I didn't have hooves, they had three toes. So I don't know interesting. I like evolution. So
03:35
cool connection that you have both your dog in this interesting period of time where they were, you know a little bit more similar size and maybe a little bit more manageable with the systems that you're developing. What's the philosophy behind the lead all these system
03:48
so the idea is to remove the strain off the dog walker the dog handler and kind of moved the the micro and macro pulls and tugs down further down the down a line of things. So the system is short leashes that are adjustable in length from two to three feet. One end of it connects to the dog and with the clip, the other end connects to a central ring. So you can I say it's good to have like six or fewer on the ring. Once you have all the dogs connected to the ring, they sort of radiate out of it kind of like as a spoke. And then the dog handler will clip in there lead to that ring and guide the dogs. So all the little sort of movements between dogs become shared between the pack and the dog handler is only ever dealing with the sort of extremity the extreme. There are the periphery let's call it the periphery of that polling. So the Dog who's pulling the most, the dog handler needs to hold back on that, then the dogs that aren't pulling will have slack in their leash. So I won't ever really dealing with the periphery of pole. And hopefully means you get to train your dogs, they'll walk nicely beside you and no one's pulling it off. Or having to drag them, as we know that happens to
05:24
Yeah, well, it kind of takes the shift and changes changes it from the idea of the walker being at the end of the leash, and kind of in being pulled along with the dogs in front of you and makes you a part of the group walk. And you're all kind of sharing and pulling forces and going back and forth on each other.
05:44
Yeah, absolutely. I think that the dogs become more aware of one another, they become more aware of the fact that they're in a pack. I've had a lot of dog walkers. And what I'm thinking of one in particular, who had been walking dogs for about 20 years, she's a single mother, and she raised her whole family walking dogs ton of experience. And a few years back, she decided to try out my system. And she said, she just loved the look of the dog's faces. When she clipped them all to the ring for the first time. They were so surprised. They didn't know what was going on. And she said she could not stop laughing at them. But like, you know, sweet way as the she loves them. And yeah, she continues to use the system today. So that's, it is a very different experience. Sometimes you have to kind of like retrain your dogs over again, because it is so different.
06:41
Well, but just because they're they there's a lot more communication, as you mentioned there like going on between not just the dogs in you, but the dogs that are in the group because they are all as one moves one way it's pulling dogs one way they're kind of having to balance that out as they move in as they're walking. So I can definitely imagine that'd be an adjustment period and new training period for both you and the dogs as you're walking.
07:02
Mm hmm. Exactly. Yeah, it's it's I find it a sort of like a embodiment of a more realistic portrait, and a more realistic physical experience of what's going on than just having six individual leashes say you're walking six dogs and holding all those leashes. So, yeah, it's a bit more of a holistic approach, I would say
07:24
it sounds like you do predominantly group walks and pack walks. Is that something you've always done? And how do you manage those.
07:32
So I came into dog walking from no professional dog experience. Previously, I'd worked in arts administration, and entomology. And so walking multiple dogs was a terrifying experience at first, like, you know, had about like, couple weeks trading with somebody, and then I was handed the quote unquote, rains and letting them all off leash for the first time or walking them on leash. All of that was very difficult and chaotic, and definitely brought up my heart rate. So I'm much more comfortable with it. Now, obviously, I find that it's really important to sort of individually know your dogs, I'm in a good position where I get to walk the exact same dogs every day. So we know each other as a pack, I know what to expect from each dog. I certainly treat each dog differently. With my leashes. Something that I would do would be a dog that is maybe more senior or very good on leash, I will extend the length of their leash to as long as it goes and kind of give them space. for dogs that are a little bit more excitable like puppies or younger dogs or even dogs who pull quite a bit. I adjust the leash to much shorter length. So when I'm pulling back on dogs, they're the ones that feel that first whereas the dogs who are better on leash calm are better behaved, they don't really feel much of that at all. So that's kind of how I manage that on leash but once they're all off leash and fortunately I am at a point where all of my dogs once I reached my sort of off leash destination can be all off leash. Again, it's just a matter of you know, I check in with the dogs quite often every few minutes I kind of say everybody's name make sure I know where everyone is. Always have treats on hands do like check ins. The dogs will just walk beside me because they just are little bit more interested in the sort of saunter whereas the younger dogs might be finding other dogs to play or Chase. each other at top speeds through sort of forest area that I walk them in. So it's really the dogs are so individual and I think you really have to respect that. And even when it comes to using the tiny horse gear, our my gear is very versatile in terms of like the different types I have the way the different pieces can be adjusted or utilized. It's certainly a reflection of the wide range of characteristics that dogs have and the different ways that we need to deal with them.
10:30
Well, it gets back to that idea of that of communicating with them. You know, we don't talk to all of your human friends the same way. Why would we try and communicate with dogs the same way as well and the using the lead system as an extension of that? Because that was kind of a another question I had for you was why pet sitters and dog walkers would should consider using their own leashes and in gear,
10:54
I think there's so many reasons to use your own your own leashes. I mean for one with tiny horse, we look at them as tools. So we work in an industry, you're doing an industry job, bring your own tools to the job. They're like I've mentioned they're quite versatile. So there's a lot more you can do with a tiny horse leash than just a regular like six six foot leash. So that's going to increase your opportunity to respond to your dog's needs your paks needs. Again, like with the COVID stuff, being able to manage your own gear and make sure it's clean and that you're proceeding as hygienically as possible. That is certainly an important element to be able to control. And I think to not bringing out leashes that are personal items of the of your clients. They're handled very intensely by the people who use them. And I think that it's important at this stage, we no longer interact with those leashes, just to reduce the contact. And also some of those leashes are sentimental to people they may have had that, certainly for a number of different dogs, for example. Another thing that's really great about bringing your own gear is it's an opportunity to express your business. I know with tiny horse, we have almost 50 different colors that you can choose for leaf styles. And so a lot of people are now selecting their leaf colors based on their brand colors. And I think that's really effective. Do I have certain customers who have come back and continue to purchase our gear in their same color and how when I see those certain colors, I think of those companies. So I mean, they're not even aiming it at me. But I'm like, oh, Navy, like that's Parker and CO and oh, like purple is three hands and Calgary's? So, yeah, it's I think that the branding opportunity is really fantastic. And again, it's it's hard to speak to just sort of having your own gear in general, but also with tiny horse leashes, it's really easy to have your pack, lift up and you can kind of set the leashes behind them. And because the the visual aspect of all the dogs sort of packed up is quote unquote, forced upon them just based on this system, you can take really good photos of the dogs as a pack. So that's a really nice social media opportunity. And I think too, having a system that is specifically used for walking dogs, people will walk past you really notice that they can see Oh, you're you're definitely a dog walker, like you have the strange contraption that's keeping all of your dogs together. And, and also, you know, people will often say to me when I'm walking with my dogs, you know, Oh, you've got them all under control. And you know, even when I don't necessarily have them all under control, they look under control because they're quite close together as we walk. So it's certainly has a look of professionalism. Versus you know, having a clump of like a bunch of different leashes from different clients homes
14:20
certainly gets back to communicating and communicating your brand. I love that idea. didn't even think of that being a possibility. But taking your colors and making it your own system. Yeah, and then communicating that can you gain that professionalism of this is a tool, a specialized tool that I'm using and instead of a ragtag conglomerate weird grouping of this lease of this brain, this leads to this band and another one and trying to make them work together, just having that system to say okay, like, or at least a familiarity with them an upkeep and maintenance and all of that, that goes into that and viewing it as that professional tool.
14:55
I even had some good feedback from one Walker in Victoria Kira from Parkside pup said she, she's been walking with tiny horse leaders, I think maybe for around two years now. And she sent me a message once and she said, It's so nice to look back at all of my pack photos over the years, and see, like the nice leashes and I'm just so glad that don't have like piles or strings of leashes in my photos. And that for her was just like a personal satisfaction. And indeed, she does a nice job of her social media. So, you know, why not make all those elements, professional and intentional?
15:34
Have you heard about time to pet Christine from raining cats and dogs as this to say
15:38
becoming a time to pet client has been a game changer for us. We can give our pet services clients real time cloud based information they never imagined they'd be interested in. And most importantly, to me personally, I can better manage my company and look forward to more and not a small thing. Time to pet is responsive to my request for new features and modifications to existing one.
16:03
If you are looking for new petsitting software for your business, give time to pet a try. listeners of pet sitter confessional get 50% off their first three months when they sign up at time to pet.com slash confessional. What role does good gear play in in protecting our bodies
16:24
again, when you say good gear, I'm going to say tiny horse gear because it's the gear. And and I only say that because that's just speaking from my experience. And you know, there really are very few options right now that are actually considering the impact of managing multiple dogs on your body. So one thing that struck my attention when I first started walking dogs and was feeling this pain as I went to the internet and I googled, you know leashes for dog walkers. And there was nothing like nothing interesting was coming up like maybe there were couplers at at the best maybe like three leashes sewn to ring to make like a trappler you want to call it. And so I really quickly realized that, you know, here's this booming industry that's bringing in like a good living for a lot of people. Yet there's a real lack of tools and thinking around what kinds of gear we need to properly do this job. And I know that there are so many people out there who are experiencing pain all over their body from this. And I really do think it's from the fact that this sort of industry or the ideas around gear haven't caught up to the industry itself. Single leashes or four single connections between one human and one dog in my mind, and I think when you start to go beyond that you really need to consider you need to consider your body because Wow, I mean, if you have, say six large dogs, like you were, you know, controlling between three and 500 pounds of animal. I mean, that's really. So if you think about ways to sort of disperse the physicality of that is dispersed that weight and and in tiny horse, we all are sort of one, say there's seven of seven of us, like, you know, like I'm 1/7 of that whole equation. And I really shouldn't have to be more because it's just too much for one body. So yeah, I think I I am excited about the idea of considering that there are tools for individual ownership and then there needs to be industry tools and and that's kind of where tiny horse is thinking and designing. And I do hope that you know, people as they start to, you know, have two dogs in their home or three dogs in their home, they look to tiny horse as potential gear for just their private use as well.
19:09
Right and making sure that those tools stay up to date with the needs of people. I mean, I think of the number of times you know trying to Karabiner different leads together or some of these monstrosities that are these retractable leash with dual in in on the ends or whatever they are, whatever the
19:29
goodness, I know and it takes a full hand to hold one of those retractable leashes. I mean I have tried it. I have, you know, at the beginning of my career, taken a retractable leash in a mid full of other leashes and it doesn't work. Yeah. It's really difficult and you know, I think, you know, managing dogs can be really stressful and if you can reduce stress, whether that be emotional or physical at any point in your job, you should go for it. You know, you know, reduce stress where you can deal with what you absolutely have to deal with the dog who rolled in poop, but don't deal with like, two or three retractable leashes in your head? Because you don't need to do that. But you do have to clean that dog up before you returning at home.
20:23
Oh, man, yeah, absolutely it is. It is it is part of that. Being able to focus on the task at hand. And the fact that are the tools that we use allow us to do that. So it's not just the strain on our hands and our backs in our shoulders. It's the strain mentally and emotionally as you're trying to pay attention to everybody safety and things that going on around you. And this is just one way having, having the tools that you know that you control that you've put together. Having those is just one more piece of that puzzle to making sure that whenever you're going out, it's it's the you know, the best walk possible that you can make it not just for the dogs, but also for yourself.
20:59
Yeah, and you know, funny that we're kind of talking about this, because essentially, what I'm trying to do is make gear that you don't really have to think about. For example, there's one piece that I have called the leader and it can be worn like as a waist belts, you can wear it across your torso, or it's double ended. Like there's lots of things you can do with it. But for me, and I talk about this on my website is I put that leader around my waist, the beginning of the day, and I don't take it off until I get back home, because it's my pickup and drop off tool. And when I'm getting in and out of my vehicle to grab dogs, I don't have to think about Oh, where's my leash? Where's my leash? Where's my leash? It's on my body. So just again, like, you know, your tools are there. I'm, as the designer behind these things, I'm thinking about like, how can someone use this in the most efficient way possible. So they don't have to think about it. So it eases the burden of having gear,
21:52
you watch a skilled Carpenter go to work building a house or doing fine detail work, the tools that they use, are almost extensions of their own limbs to accomplish a particular task, they don't even have to think about, I'm now holding the hammer, this is how I'm standing, or this is what I'm doing. It's just, there's a task and I'm getting it done and the tools Get out of the way. And just allow you to be creative in that process to
22:16
just so in terms of thinking about sort of Carpenter like grabbing for his hammer hammer or other tools, and that it's an extension of themselves. I think to that, I really like to think about leashes and the leads as connections between one another between the human and the animal. Sorry, humans are animals to the animals of different species. So, you know, we can't, we don't have very developed verbal communication between one another. But we can use a leash as a way to negotiate how we move through space with those animals. So for example, just an individual level, I have a beagle, and she loves to stop and sniff. So, you know, when I walk with her, it's certainly a negotiation between me walking and moving us forward, and her wanting to stop and sniff. And we're kind of at a point where, you know, she'll be sniffing, sniffing, sniffing, and then I move us along and I'm like, Hey, we got to get like, another block before you stop again. But you know, there's like, certain ways that she reacts when she's like, No mom, like, I really got to sniff this. Versus, you know, I can just kind of move her along with like a little tug, or just saying, like, let's keep going, let's go for a walk. So, you know, that sort of push and pull from both sides. It's not just the human who's sort of got this dog in bondage and pulling and dragging it along. It's just a series of hopefully just like small tugs on one another to sort of like check in and speak to each other about how the walk is going and where we need to go.
24:09
It's those tools are helping helping you bond with the dogs that you're in charge of talking about this two way communication, this, this connection between two energies that are have different might have different goals. And I love how you said, you know, negotiation, because it's a constant negotiation of this way, that way, stop, go and everything in between.
24:30
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
24:33
2020 saw a rapid increase in coated webbing or biothane products. So talk to us a little bit about about those and what makes those unique or different than maybe more traditional kind of products and materials, huh,
24:49
yeah, biothane definitely blew up. I think it was already, you know, of interest to a lot of people but I think the fact that it's sort of a non porous, very easy to clean material really spoke to the needs and concerns of 2020. So I think biothane and I mean, I would need to double check this, but I think it was for it was first patented in 1978 in Ohio. And so there is, it is actually a patented product that comes from one sort of area in the United States. There are now certainly a lot of like knockoffs from that but tiny horse, we do buy biothane through an authorized dealer, so we're getting like the best of the best. It's so I'm when I'm speaking about biothane, I'm going to be talking about biothane proper. It's and I and I'll say this because the so the biothane that we use is called beta standard. And it's very malleable. And it's often talked about as a kind of like vegan leather. And it's so soft and pliable. Whereas I find that a lot of the sort of knockoffs are like quite a bit more stiff, and they don't have the sort of like, flouts of sort of the traditional webbing that we're used to. So I really like the like the proper data standard biothane that any horse uses. It's certainly much more durable when it comes to like little nicks and scratches and you know, little test bites from puppies or dogs who like to chew. It's very brightly colored, or it can be brightly colored, it holds its color for a long time. It's fantastic in the fact that it doesn't absorb water at all. I do know tiny horse still makes webbing leashes. But we do also do our exact same designs and biothane now, so I personally have switched over to the biothane because it's such a great material for an industry use. I mean one day walking in the rain with dogs and then having to hang up well webbing leashes in your vehicle overnight or hanging them out to dry or washing them often can be quite a pain versus just the biothane that it's like you just shake it off. And you know I was working on a biothane long lead and I was testing it on my little Abbey in Hyde Park in Toronto. Disgusting day like you know, sorry. just totally disgusting day, there was mud everywhere. We've got like little sheets of ice that are melting. So this biothane long Lee that was dragging behind my beagles just filthy there was probably like poop and pee on it, I don't know. But at the end of the walk, I mean, and I didn't touch it the whole time. At the end of the walk, I walked over to a little bridge that had a stream going underneath it. And this thing is 30 feet long. So I just dangled one end off of it and like shook it in the water and then dangled the other end off and boom, it was spotless. And then I got to put that in my backpack and walk away. So I think that the sort of easy to manage and clean characteristic of biothane is a huge win for people working in the industry.
28:33
I know there may be some concern about durability, but it sounds like that that's not really so much of an issue.
28:38
Yeah, I don't think it's much of an issue though. There is a like a shelf life for it because so biothane is a PVC covered webbing, and that PVC on the outside, like any sort of like rubber or plastic can sort of like break down and degrade over time. And I think that, you know, it's probably a good idea not to leave your leashes constantly in full sun in a lot of heat in your car, you know, you'll maybe tuck them under your seat over a weekend, if it's going to be really sunny. If you are having, you know, a few week break here in Northern Canada where it gets really cold, bring them into your house, don't let them freeze for two weeks on us. So just kind of like reducing the environmental stressor on it where you can I don't think it's a huge deal. But I think that over time, it could help your gear last longer.
29:32
One final question about I think just because there's I know there's a lot of interest in it, is it I think what I've seen from it is it typically is mostly flat but does it can they make it in different kinds of shapes, you know, round or anything else like that?
29:45
That's such a good question. So biothane mostly is all flat, but it does come in a few rope styles and we are going to be releasing slip leads. biothane rope coming up soon here. So I'm just working on some prototypes now with dog walker, who has been using tiny horse gear, since about the beginning of our company, she lives in California. And so I'm working with her on some of my prototypes, because I don't use slip leads. she does, she knows them very well. So working with her on that design, and it will be made with biothane rope.
30:24
And I guess that leads into my next question here of as a, as a designer of these products, what is your design process like?
30:34
So it, it's very integrated with the work that I do with my pack. So oftentimes, while I'm walking dogs or walking into the park, I'm thinking about design ideas, I have a kind of mind that's like, very spatial. And so I can like, move things in my head and piece things together with my imagination. So kind of going through that process, while I'm actually handling dogs is probably about the first part of that. And then I will come home and work on some prototypes. Sometimes I have all the things that I need in my workshop in regards to hardware, or webbing, or biothane. Or I might need to make a call to one of my suppliers for something. And I even have had some different things manufactured specifically for my products. So the process of actually like putting together a prototype can be come together as quickly in an afternoon or I have to wait longer for parts, it can be, you know, several weeks, or even up to a month sometimes to really put an idea together. For example, I have an idea right now that I'm working on. And I had to contact one of my suppliers and said, Hey, can I get this, but like this, and they said, you know, I'll check in with our manufacturer. And I heard back from them, it may, they may be able to like send me a few samples of it, but I might have to buy 500 pieces of it for them to even send it to me. So it's really, it's like a very involved process to get all of the pieces together. So so then there's that aspect of like actually getting the prototype together, and then I will try it out on my own pack. For example. Just before lockdown began began, again, here in Toronto, the night before lockdown, I got all I finished all the prototypes I was working on and brought them with me dogwalk make sure I had an opportunity to try everything out before I wouldn't be able to see the dogs again for at least a month. So yeah, so it's I really use my pack to help me figure out if those tools will work or not. That's stage one. I've come to realize that the way my dogs behave on tiny horse gear, and what my pack dynamic is, is so different from every other, you know, pack and walkers scenario. So I've realized is very valuable to send out prototypes to other dog walkers. So if I want to test like the strength of something I know dog walkers in Toronto who've got like really crazy hard pulling packs, and I'll be like, can you test this for me? For example, I want to develop a slip lead. So I'm working with someone who does use a slip leads. And I actually before I started working with jesslyn in Napa, she's in Napa Valley, California, I had a dog walker try have another version for me on Vancouver Island. And she didn't like a lot of things about it, which was so fantastic. Get that feedback. And I was so humble about it because I don't use slip leads. So I was really grateful for Ashley's honesty on that and I look forward to you know, sending her this other prototype. So, you know, testing the prototypes, I do it in my own pack. And I also involve other dog walkers that I have some knowledge of sort of what their dynamics are.
34:47
And then
34:49
yeah, after I get feedback, I decide whether or not I want to move forward. I make tweaks. And yeah, the rest is a lot of work on a website and photography. And then people see it happen online?
35:03
Yeah. Well, I'm thinking to have as businesses and people who are running their businesses, we can get started on projects. And so I can get your input on this. Because, you know, you are making a physical object in the world. And so at some point, it has to be done, right. Like you have to declare it done. And in businesses, sometimes it be a little bit more nebulous. As far as like, I'm starting a new project to grow, or I'm starting a new project to get more clients or something like that. How do you know when the product is done and ready to be photographed and shipped?
35:39
Mm hmm. That's a great question. Um, I think, you know, after a lot of the testing, and kind of creating that designing with in the available materials that I have, I kind of Consider it done. Nonetheless, you know, my major product, the lead off leash that I started the company with, and that was the only product we started with, I didn't have leads or anything, was just this, like, 21 inch double ended leash. And that's where we started. And that product went out in the world. And it's changed a number of times, and I think I'm, I'm about to change a few more little details on it. And I think it's gonna be done. Like, it's totally finally ready and done. Yeah, I mean, that's not to say that all of the the leeches that are out there and being used right now aren't
36:44
good products.
36:48
I think with the, because there's always like opportunities for new materials and different kinds of hardware. I try to be flexible and upgrade those designs to accommodate and try out new materials or new colors. And, yeah, so the designs go up, but there's always like new factors that come in, come in to play and I like to be quite fluid about that.
37:18
Yeah, this continual, you know, little, not necessarily overhauling, but little refinements here and there, as new things come available on the materials. You know, I feel like you work with a wide range of materials. But what are your favorites to work with?
37:34
Well, I would say it's certainly fun to work with the leather. I don't have a ton of leather products. But I do work it straight from like the
37:49
hide.
37:51
So I kind of get a like a not a rawhide, but like a tanned hide. I get by like double shoulders of a cow kind of thing. And I start like, right from ground zero on that. And it's really interesting to work with that material, because it's a multi day process, you know, to cut it and imprint my stamp in it, and it's got to dry and then it's either gonna be stained and oiled and buffed with my buffing wheel. So there's a lot that goes into it. And what comes out on the other end is certainly feels like you know, it's a piece that's gone through a journey with like a lot of love and intention in many hours. So I enjoy that. But I mean, all of the materials have to have things that I like about them. Right now, I've been experimenting with like some more heavy duty sewing on the biothane, which has been really fun and kind of exciting for me. Mostly, I've been riveting the bio thing, but now I'm kind of doing a bit more sewing on it, I was a little bit scared to sew it at first. Because it's such a different material. And my industrial sewing machine is expensive and very precious to me. And it it's it's is not an easy tool to manage. And so I feel like I'm at a point that I really know it. And anytime I introduce a new material, like there's a learning curve with how to sew it. It's like the difference between, you know, trying to sew silk and trying to sell burlap. Like they're two totally different things. You need different stitches in different approaches. So it's the same thing with the different materials I
39:39
use. I love hearing how you approach each of those. And you have to that idea of having to learn the material to work it and if you try and take the same approach to each one, you're not going to get a good outcome,
39:51
right? A lot of broken things.
39:54
Right. And just thinking about reflecting on on running, running. business to or caring for dogs, like when you try and take the same approach to everything because it may be it's what you'd know and you love best, right? You're like, well, this is what I'm most comfortable with. So I'm going to do the same thing for each one of these, you're going to break things, right, you're going to, you're going to stumble across issues, and you're going to run into walls that you've got to try and scale and pin go around in this idea of going, Okay, well, let's try a different approach different a tactic and being flexible to that, you know, trying to just, you know, thinking about the parallels between working with material and working in a business and, and, and applying and being flexible to our approach as business owners, especially as times are changing and things are kind of crazy these days. I don't know if you know that, but things are the
40:43
last didn't notice. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you have to run into those walls, right? That's the only way that you grow, is by making mistakes and deciding to go on to try to recover from that and to manage the errors. And then you can start to predict, right, what might not be a good choice, and what would be a good choice. And so you start to sort of make fewer errors, but only because you initially made those errors, and you know, so viscerally what it felt like to make those errors. You know, that's like no one can really tell you. It's the sort of like embodied learned experience that is most valuable.
41:25
Absolutely. And to watch somebody work with materials, who has all this experience and go Okay, well, I think I need to do this stitch or I need to do this kind of riveting, or this this, if someone if you tried to put that into context of like, well, how did you know to do that with this material? It'd be kind of hard, right? It'd be kind of hard to sit there and go? Well, what's because I tried 130 different ways.
41:48
Exactly. When I was in my early 20s, I had a sewing studio, where I was born and raised in Saskatoon. And so I made like, lots of clothes. And I started out making a lot of T shirts, and I kind of like made a pattern out of my body or like my friend's body, whoever I was, like making this thing for. And I must have made nearly 1000 shirts. By the end of that I could just free cut out all the pieces that I needed. Because that's where I wanted to go. Like I didn't want to have to like dealing with like patterns or like buying, you know, those tissue paper patterns. I wanted to be able to feel those designs and those cuts in those corners. And it becoming sort of like nonverbal or like a flow a creative flow. Yeah, and I think that's certainly lent itself well, to my work with tiny horses just to like approach things in a way that's intuitive, I guess would be the word I wanted to become intuitive about things. Like people can get there with their dogs too, right? In a pack, you see a dog doing a certain thing and you think, oh, that could go bad. Well just put that dog on a leash because it's so much easier than you know, dealing with like an example would be like an amped up dog whose hairs raised a little bit you know, just put that leash on, let it cool down. You How you feeling about it, just act on it, do it. It's Yeah, trust yourself and build that intuition.
43:23
That's hard. trusting yourself being confident in yourself in your own abilities. And but it does, you do have to recognize like I have experience in this I've been dog walking and pet sitting for all of these years, I've been building leashes for all these years, when I go to make that first cut. When I go to make that first introduction, when I go to put that dog on the leash for the first time. I need to have confidence in my ability to do that and be able to read the dog and know more about the situation that I did you know, five years ago or right when I started.
43:53
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, and I think then having that confidence challenged is really important too. I mean, I think for me, my biggest challenge to date has with tiny horse has been that I had chosen a certain clip on the end of the doll leash that, unbeknownst to me, had been coming unclipped from certain brands of dog gear. Because these dog this dog gear had like, kind of custom hardware that it was just like had this really poor interaction with the clip and all the dog harnesses and things that I was using were functioning just fine with it. So I didn't know and it took like a fair amount of feedback from other dog walkers and for other dog walkers to narrow down Hey, it's this brand and this brand and this brand. For me to accept that, oh my goodness, I have to make a really big change to my product. It was scary and hard and sad and challenging. And but I mean ultimately because I Make the things I just immediately was able to change that clip to one that was much more compatible than just a traditional, like some clip. And that I think, you know, I'd already been a few years into tiny Horace and I was feeling really confident. And that really knocked me down. But I am so glad and thankful a for that feedback from people because it's so easy for someone to, you know, have a negative experience with the product and just toss it. I'm thankful that I'm like a little tiny business that people can approach and say, Hey, this happened, you know, how can I figure this out. And I'm really thankful when people take the time to do that.
45:42
And so
45:44
I'm so thankful for that feedback. And I'm thankful that that the change could be made so quickly, once the problem was really clear. And yeah, so that that challenge was important. And it's certainly like, it humbled me. And it's made me really thoughtful and careful going forward about those choices. And yeah, it just, I think that it's probably like shook some people's confidence entirely horse, and I totally get that. And that makes me sad. Because my intentions were always to be like a really safe product. But yeah, this this thing had happened. And it's all part of that learning and growing experience. And I'm glad to have pushed through that. And just made a change,
46:37
you mentioned having our confidence challenged. And that comes in the form of that fit on the in that feedback in that criticism that comes our way. And and it is it is really important to when you receive that to sit in assess its validity and go, okay, is this how serious is this in the face of what I'm doing? In the face of, you know, something coming unclipped and dogs potentially leaving? That's pretty, you know, that's okay, that's genuine, that's real. Okay, let's, let's move forward with that. If it was something like, you know, oh, it came in blue, and I don't like blue. It's like well, ordered different, you know, so Okay, fine, whatever, whatever, whatever. But it we have to wait, that's a part of that process of going through taking it in assessing its validity. And then seeing what we can do about that what what we have control or we have agency over for that feedback? And whether it's even in our control or not.
47:31
Yeah, that's such a great point. I mean, you can't just, you know, take every piece of feedback that you got and put your full energy necessarily into responding to it, you have to like filter it out. I mean, the dog walkers love them. They're like an opinionated bunch. And that's both good and bad, right? I mean, mostly, it's good. And sometimes I seek the feedback from the people that I know are like, the most difficult, because you know, if you can please that person, that a lot of other people are going to be pleased with your design or your product. So yeah, you definitely have to sort of manage that feedback. But he goes, be thankful that it's coming in, right? Because if you don't have feedback coming in, you certainly don't. You can't orient yourself in how well your business is doing and what people think of your products.
48:25
It's kind of weird to be sit there and go, Okay, well, I'm thankful for this negative feedback, or this, or this criticism coming my way. But, but it means people cared enough.
48:32
Yeah, exactly. And people care about dogs. So right. Yeah. Lots of times. That's where it comes from. They care about their businesses, and then they should Yeah, I think there's a wall obviously, there's a difference between like, negative feedback and critical feedback.
48:49
Yeah, yeah. Good point.
48:50
I just critical I, I've been very fortunate that people in general have been very kind with me. And, you know, the odd time that someone comes to me a little bit upset, I try to understand where they're coming from, or what their experience has been. And you know, we recently had someone who had like, some shipping issues. And at first I was thinking, like, you know, this, this person is like, being really gruff with me. And it was kind of like, made me feel a little bit upset. But then I took some time and heard about, like, the really difficult time that he was having with his dogs, and he was so desperate to receive the tools from tiny horse. That's what was like, urging him and pushing him and that he had this like, hugely stressful experience with his pack. And so once I like, sat and like, Listen to what it was, that was like, making him so urgent, I felt so much better. And we had such a good conversation after that, and it was like, oh, like, you know, take care and like, sending hearts and like, it's all good. It's gonna be okay. So, yeah, that's it. Seeing lets you know that we're trying to understand where people are coming from is, is pretty important.
50:09
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51:50
super important in where people are coming from, it's, it's, uh, I think, too, sometimes, you have a lot of that when you're walking with your pack on leash, and you have to sort of communicate or deal with just like, I call them civilians, you know, the civilians who are just walking past and, you know, some people are really flabbergasted to see you handling six dogs, and they want to, like, talk to you, and approach you and pet your dogs. And sometimes, I can seem pretty cold to people and say, you know, please, please don't approach us, you know, to really serious tone. And I'm not at all like a mean or rude person. But it's very serious for me when people approach my pack, and are they like, you know, walk up with their puppy six feet ahead of them, like dragging them by the leash towards my pack. That's, you know, where am I coming from? I'm coming from that I'm trying to keep all these dogs safe. And I'm trying to have like an, you know, a well managed pack. But yeah, oh, is it's a constant. It's a constant journey to approach other people and animals. Yeah,
53:19
I would love it if you could tell us about the products that you currently have available. And if somebody is interested in changing up their systems that they have, you know, what are some some introductory or some recommendations that you would have for them.
53:36
Okay, so our premier product, the lead all leash, which is our leashes that attached to the dogs, and then to the central ring, they come in the two different materials, they come in nylon webbing, and they come in biothane. So the design of them is exactly the same, the lengths that they go to the three feet and they just two to three feet is exactly the same. It's just the material that's different. And then also the price would be different because the biothane is quite a bit more expensive for me to buy. So that's just reflected in the price. So you have those leash options. You need as many leashes as dogs that you walk at one time. So if you max have four dogs, you'll need the four leashes and then it comes with a central ring. And then you have to think about what you as the human want to lead with. So all the tools that the humans hold, we call leads. So right now I have four leads. I have the transport and their track lead. They're pretty basic leashes. They're just they just come in webbing out in leather, and they have a handle of both end one end there's a clip that you can clip into the ring and on the other handle At the other end, there's a like a D ring. So if you want to pull out, say a puppy and work with it individually, you can clip it to that D ring. So just with one hand, you have your pack on one end and a dog that you need to give more attention to on the other ones if you need to, like give them some more correction. And these, like the opportunity to take a dog out of the pack and work with it individually is very important. So
55:30
I think
55:32
one important aspect of the leashes is that you have to integrate the dogs into being on that ring together, it's not like an automatic thing, necessarily, you may have dogs that are like jumping, or you might be getting a new puppy, which is happening happening a lot right now in the industry. And you need to prepare that dog to be on that central ring. So you know, it's got to have like social behavior and anti social behavior would be like, you know, a puppy who is trying to play well, they're on leash, you have to, you know, socialize them not to do that. So those truck and transport leads have that sort of built in tool, and then have the leader which is a wearable. So you're going to like wear on your waist or across your torso. And there's like a few different rings on there. So if you want to pull a dog off of your ring, then work with it individually, you can do that I've just like dealt with the leash. So that has the, again, you know, take a dog out if you need to, but still, like manage at the same time. And then I have a handlers which is like, it's like a 15 inch traffic lead. There's a short little handle and there's a clip on the handle as well as at the end to clip onto the ring to handle the clip on the handle, you can use that to like, clip on to some of our other products like the leader, for example. It's all like modular, and you can kind of connect the tools in different ways. So people who are trying the system for the first time, I definitely suggest that you start with one of the shorter leads. So like the handler, or the transport lead, I think that these are great leads to start with because they naturally keep the central ring up high, which is really important because then the dogs when they're like kind of switching positions, go underneath the system versus like running into it or walking over it. so important to keep that central ring at that right height. If the leashes get like, wrapped around the ring, they can interact with the clips. And normally, the clip will just like come off and like connect to the leash that's wrapping on it. But just to avoid that, altogether, you just keep the ring up at the right place, then you won't have a problem with that. So the handler and the transport leads, they're really good for training the Walker, to understand where the right position is for that ring. And I think that, you know, a lot of people want to start out with something like the leader, the waist lead, because you know, the idea of like, oh, like hands free walking from my waist is fantastic. But it's a little bit more of a complex place to start in terms of like, you know, keeping the ring at the right place. So I think that like a really good package to start with would be the number of leashes that you need for the number of dogs to walk at one time.
58:44
Plus,
58:46
like the handler, and if you want to get to the point where you're walking hands free, you know, throw in the leader. So those are basically the tools that I have right now, I'm going to be probably by the time this, this podcast comes out, I will have quite a few more products available. So that's going to include my little leash, I'm going to be making an extra long version. So the leader leash as it is now is two to three feet, but the extra long version is going to adjust from about three to five feet. And that'll be good for like little dogs who really want to get away from the pack or you know, older dogs who need a lot of extra space. So like I kind of imagined that, you know, a dog walker with a diverse group might want like one of those extra long leashes in their pack of leashes just to like kind of give them that space for the dog. And they could even just like attach that just to their hip. And that dog may not even need to be on the ring, right? So they have like, yeah, they're just an easygoing dog that just like deserves its own space entirely, but you still don't want to have to like hold the leash. And then biothane long leads will be coming out and hopefully slip leads will be out by the time this comes on. And yeah, so I'm, I mean my own like period of rapid growth in terms of the product line, which has been the result of all the lockdown all the time and designing so
1:00:22
well and again, I love it that it is so modular. And if someone's listening, and they haven't put that much thought into the system that they're using, or that their system could be better, like it just helps put it into perspective of all the different options that are out there for somebody who's interested in in getting some Pro Tools and making their lives just a little bit easier.
1:00:44
That's the hope I'd love to you know, be part of something positive in the world. Yeah.
1:00:51
And, and yes, if somebody's listening, and they go, isn't it her last name lead all and she has a product named lead all? Yes, yes. Yeah. And that is an amazing, amazing name. And I love that, that that product is named that way too. So that's that's a cool connection.
1:01:07
Thanks a dog walker friend of mine, Angelica. She pulled that connection together for me. And I was like, okay, you're right. That's the name of it.
1:01:15
kind of have to Yeah. Yeah, I
1:01:18
think I was gonna call it like the ark delete or something so stupid.
1:01:21
I mean,
1:01:24
it's just like something really silly like that. So it kind of worked out.
1:01:29
Oh, that's awesome. Taylor, this has been this has been a real pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing about tools sharing about how they help not just our bodies but help improve the communication to the the dogs that were walking and the importance of receiving feedback and making that something productive in our lives. People want to reach out, get connected, get updates on all the products that you've got releasing this year. How can they do that?
1:01:56
They can find me on the web at tiny horse.ca is our website. And I'm on Instagram, I think it's tiny horse dot mercantile is our tag. And I'm on Facebook and Facebook page too. I think it's backslash training horse mercantile.
1:02:18
All one word,
1:02:19
I have a link tree on my Instagram. So even like get links to the Facebook and I've got a blog as well, that I'm working on and sort of like key points on my website, like where to get the leashes and where the leads are. So yay, Link tree and an email to like I, I have a lot of like individual conversations with dog walkers. So just like DM me on Instagram,
1:02:40
send me an email,
1:02:42
I will definitely respond to you
1:02:43
perfect. And I'll have links to all that in our show notes on our website. So people can find that without having to search too much, Taylor, again, thank you so so much for coming on the show today.
1:02:53
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.
1:02:56
I had two major takeaways from my conversation with Taylor. The first was that the importance of having good quality professional tools, that you know that you trust that you control how much that impacts not just the lessening the stress and strain on our bodies, but also on improving the communication and improving the connection of energies between those two bodies walking down the sidewalk or along a path. That when we have tools that we can trust that when we have tools that we know the ins and outs of that work with how we walk dogs and fit our systems, the the mental strain lessons and we are able to enjoy, we're able to be more present. And we're able to sense and communicate better with the dogs that are in our charge. The second big takeaway about receiving feedback was that need to run into a wall to grow and to expand our businesses. As Taylor explained, when you get comfortable when you get assure of yourself, sometimes it takes running into a problem you've never encountered before that can take you to that next level that can start growing and expanding the possibilities that maybe you never even thought of before. I find it fascinating the connection in the design process in creating physical objects alongside running and operating a business in the world and the kind of feedback that we all receive and that process of growing and adapting to things as they change around us. I want to thank our sponsors, time to pet and pet sitters international for making today's show possible. And I really want to thank you for listening for joining and sharing and for all the wonderful feedback that you continue to give. We are so appreciative of you. We hope you have a wonderful rest of the week. And we'll be back again soon.
1:05:00
Release
