297: Evolving as a Business Owner with Michelle Sabia
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Summary:
How do you grow in the role of being the founder of your company? Many of us feel uncomfortable using such formal titles in our businesses, but words have meaning for a reason. Michelle Sabia, owner of Paws and Claws Pet Sitting, discusses what it's like growing into new roles in her business. She shares how her expansion into a brand new market has been going, and how she has been trying to break her addiction of working 24/7. She also encourages us to get more involved in pet sitting organizations.
Main topics
Founder role
Expanding into a new area
State of hiring
Decision fatigue
Groups for pet sitters
Main takeaways: As the business owner, you are obligated to spend time thinking about, and planning for, the future.
About our guest:
A little bit about me; I moved from Washington, Connecticut to Cave Creek, Arizona with my family in 1999. I was too young to choose where we moved but beyond grateful to land in Cave Creek! I have been a grateful “Creeker” for the past 20 years while remaining very close to my roots in CT. My whole life I have had a love and respect for all animals! They have always been a part of my life. I can remember pet sitting for our neighbor who had a litter of kittens when I was 10 years old (Best job EVER!). Fast forward to today I have been able to turn my years of experience into an incredible company! I started Paws & Claws Pet Sitting Services, LLC with the goal to help care for other pets just as I have my own.
Links:
Previously on Episode 107: https://www.petsitterconfessional.com/episodes/107-michelle-sabia
Her website: https://yourpetsitterdogwalker.com
Jump Consulting: https://jumpconsulting.net
Give us a call! (636) 364-8260
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Email us at: feedback@petsitterconfessional.com
A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
business, people, pet, clients, important, Connecticut, Arizona, pet sitter, hire, visits, area, expectations, staff, day, growing, company, feel, overnights, dog, professional
SPEAKERS
Meghan, Collin, Michelle Sabia, Doug
Michelle Sabia 00:00
I am the CFO of my company. I mean, break it down. That's exactly what we're supposed to do. However, the CFO isn't the person who is doing the day to day bookkeeping and those things. Again, we are the ones up in the Watchtower. We are the ones that are creating what we want to create out of the company and to take the company and the direction that we want to go to.
Meghan 00:27
Hello, I'm Megan. I'm Collin. And this is Pet Sitter confessional and open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter
Collin 00:34
brought to you by time to pet. How do we grow into the role of being a boss? How do we grow into the role of being the founder of our company, weighty words for businesses that many of us hardly ever give a second thought to, but made all the more important and necessary as we make weighty decisions that impact not just our lives, but the lives of our clients, staff if we have them, and the people around us. So today, we're really excited to have Michelle Subbiah. Back on the show. She's the owner of paws and claws pet sing to his previously with us back on episode 107. Today, she gives us an update on how expansion out to Connecticut is going, why she views her staff as her most valuable client. And she shares her experiences in running the Arizona professional pet sitters and Associates group, and why those are more important than ever. Let's get started.
Michelle Sabia 01:27
Shere Khan. Thank you. Thanks for having me. My name is Michelle sabia on the owner of owner and founder of paws and claws, pet sitting services, and we service location in Cave Creek, Arizona, Cave Creek, North Scottsdale, Arizona, and then also in Connecticut, Northwest Connecticut,
Collin 01:47
I want to dive into how the connected stuff is going. But you made it you made a small correction there. But how you introduce yourself I think is fascinating owner and founder. Is that weird? Is it weird to introduce yourself like that?
Michelle Sabia 01:59
It is weird. Yes. And when I was writing the notes, I was like, should I put that in there? And I kind of feel like I should. It's important because owner could mean I mean, you know, the business could have been bought, I don't know, I just like I'm the original founder of the company, which I think is exciting. And we're celebrating?
Collin 02:16
No, it really is something we're celebrating in recognition of that work and what you did and kind of this, this what you took as a first brainchild and this little seed of a thing and it's grown and it's turned into something. And I still feel I feel weird just calling ourselves business owners, let alone founder. So I think but all these terms are really important when it comes to how we see ourselves.
Michelle Sabia 02:39
Yes, and I think too, you were talking about touching on what makes us a professional pet sitter. But that's just it being a business owner and creators. That's, that's, you know, we're running a business. And that's a big part of it. It's no longer just, you know, pet sitting and dog walking anymore.
Collin 02:59
When we see ourselves like that, that helps was so much with, with with boundaries with going through the paperwork with doing all the jumping through all these hurdles, that it seems like never end. But that becomes part of it. And that's part of how we see ourselves. Yes. So So part of that is you started in Arizona, and then had this idea to branch out and go way across the country into an entirely different state. So how is the Connecticut service area going for you?
Michelle Sabia 03:32
It's going good, um, business wise is a little on the slow side. I'm still really getting used to the seasons, and just how the state is so different from Arizona. Here we typically don't walk dogs during the summer off for obvious reasons. It's so hot. So Connecticut, we just are getting through the winter months. And we still walked dogs but you know, same kind of thing. There's a lot of learning with snowstorms and when you can walk your dog when it's so cold out. I mean, luckily the people are you know, our staff that works there lives there and have lived there for a long time so they know how to get around and I really rely on them to you know, communicate with me and we communicate with the client if we need to reschedule if it's a safety reason we have that built in in our you know, service agreement for the client as well. But that's kind of going off topic. So it seems that once once the winter month is is starting to you know go away then business does pick up. But I guess I'm okay with the fact that it's been on the slow side because that's really allowed me to build a really strong team, you know, like a good foundation. So that because I know aren't physically there, or is in Arizona, that's where I primarily live. So if a if a staff is unavailable, I'm able to, you know, go in and take care of the visit, I can't do that there. So I've really been focusing on building a really strong team, which I feel that I really have done. So I'm excited now for the business to start to pick up.
Collin 05:22
Yeah, I think that's part of that, that scaling part of our business where we've got to lay those foundations, we've got to set the scaffolding, get the processes in place, get that training done, so that when business does happen, it means that we're able to meet that need a lot faster, and with a lot less headache.
Michelle Sabia 05:38
Yes. And I'm really able to step back and trust and know that my team is going to handle it.
Collin 05:46
That's huge. That trust is so important, especially being that far away. I know, when Megan and I were two hours away from our service area. And that was something where it's, we have this initial knee jerk reaction of, oh, if I could just be there, if I could just do this, if I could just see it. To know, that's why those processes are so important so that you can trust the processes. And I hire this person for a reason. And I've got to let them go and do their work. Yeah. Now, when it comes to the client tell difference between the two areas. How are you managing your messaging or communicating to these two vastly different areas?
Michelle Sabia 06:24
Um, we have two different petsitting software's. So this has been another along the way learning lesson, just kind of asking a lot of questions researching a lot, I had just the one petsitting software and when the the end, the visit report would be completed, it would say Arizona time, and right now we're three hours difference. And sometimes we're two hours difference. So it is an added expense. But it's nice to have that separate piece there. Because we are so much more established in Arizona, we have a lot more clients. It's just important to keep that separate. So with that we have the two different petsitting software's I think that's pretty much it, though, with how we handle you know, with that, and then just like you guys, we also use Slack. So we've got a Connecticut channel, we have an Arizona channel, and then we have a break room channel where they can all kind of, you know, talk together?
Collin 07:30
Yeah, I'm gonna have to rename our general channel to break room because that's yeah, I like to add that as it to my to do list. But it is. So that's really interesting how you solve that problem, that kind of conundrum of of these timezone differences with that, were you finding that that was confusing to clients, or you just felt like it was more appropriate to have it be service area
Michelle Sabia 07:55
specific. I think both, when I looked at the bigger picture, which I think is a big part of being a business owner is being able to see a little bit ahead. And maybe in the future looking at the bigger picture. I think last time I talked about that analogy of a forest. And if you're so stuck in the day to day operations, you're in there inside the forest, and you can't see, you can't see all of the trees ahead. But as an owner, it's like we need to be up in that Watchtower, where we can see the forest around us see what's coming. And, you know, that was just something that I saw right away was going to be an issue. And I just decided that while you know I already committed to this second location in a completely different state clear across the country, I need to then I need to take seriously. So I just I use time to pet I love time to pet. So I just did, I just created a whole a whole nother account. And I literally have to log in to each one. So I have the password saved, which is easy, but it can be a bit of a pain in the butt having to you know go back and forth trying to manage. But again, when we'll touch on this, my team, I just rely on them so much. And my team in Connecticut, they really handle a lot. And it's like, if it's an emergency, if it's something that I need to tend to, then my office manager will let me know and we communicate that in in Slack. And so far, it's worked out really, really well.
Collin 09:38
Instead of really big word there's you committed to it, you looked at something was and you went ah if I'm going to commit to this that means certain things that means I'm going to have specific actions I'm going to have different things that I do as a business. And that's really important as far as the mindset goes when it comes to running an operating our businesses there are things that we have have to commit to and then we He is the owner and operator need to realize that means I have actions that I'm going to do, right? And think through the the logistics of that and go, okay, if I'm really committed to this, what does that mean for me? What does that mean for my staff and my company?
Michelle Sabia 10:15
Right? Yeah, absolutely. And then along those lines to I had to look into the petsitting. Insurance? And see, would that kind of same idea? Did I have to then create a completely separate petsitting account? That covers that specific area? So I was able to reach out to I kind of got passed along a little bit, because it was a little, you know, over their head kind of question, but I was able to get the answer that I wanted to, which is really, for for the one that I use, which is PSA. petsitting. associates, associates. Yeah. Yes. So I could really do either or, it Yes. And so, you know, I was able to save that, that email for future reference. But if you had the two is kind of like you could spread out those claims. If you had claims, it's like, you could spread those claims out a little bit further than if you just had the one
Collin 11:13
account. Oh, interesting. I love these, these kinds of issues that come up that it's like, we're just gonna ask, right? We're just gonna start trying to figure this out and see what's going to work and then sit down and go, Okay, I've done my due diligence, I've done my research, what's going to be the best option for me? And that's, that's for us to decide. Yeah. Now, when it comes to growing the clients in Connecticut, how are you initially finding them and starting them up in this new location,
Michelle Sabia 11:39
I really think it's, it's something that I'm still working on. I need to be able to take the time to work on it. And, and so it's, it's a combination of everything, really, I mean, we got quite a bit from other pets and companies that are also in Connecticut, but don't quite service that area. So we have gotten referrals from other companies. And the reason why we've gotten referrals from them is because I was able to make that connection with them. Um, so I guess that's probably the best answer for that is to really take the time to make those connections with local businesses with other pet sitting businesses in that area. And build that trust with them. So could that be word of mouth? I mean, I guess that could be word of mouth.
Collin 12:41
Yeah, that is pretty word of mouth, for sure. I mean, except that it's a very specific kind of word of mouth. Because they are getting inquiries, that doesn't work for them, and then they refer out to you. So yeah, that's kind of more referral, but obviously, with their mouths or texting or whatever.
Michelle Sabia 13:00
Right. Yeah. referrals, but that also Google My Business. That's a big one. I'm still working on getting that one set up. Because Arizona is so much more established that it when I you know, when you search it, it comes up pretty quickly. But for Connecticut, that one has been a bit of an interesting one to navigate.
Collin 13:25
So do you have two separate google my businesses to operate?
Michelle Sabia 13:31
Yeah, no, that's a good question. It's like literally the answer has been to create two separate accounts for two separate locations. That's pretty much been Yeah, that's in researching all of that. And also just kind of trial and error that has been the answer is creating two separate accounts.
Collin 13:49
Wow, that's a lot.
Michelle Sabia 13:50
That's a lot. Separate Google. Google, My Business account is two separate y'all to separate next door. Oh, yeah. To separate petsitting. And, well, not insurance for now. But yeah, but it's important,
Collin 14:02
because you're looking at your service areas. And for a majority of people, we don't have 1000s, you know, hundreds and hundreds of miles between our service areas. And so we don't really think of why they need to be separate. But it is important, because if you just have the one, it's not going to capture the local searches, it's going to miss those completely. Because Google doesn't know quote, unquote, that you are operating in one location or two locations, I should say. So splitting those is is why you need to do that right so that you could capture the local searches there.
Michelle Sabia 14:34
Yes. And I will even say as we're talking about this, my memory is sparking and with that, with having a business in a different state, you have to have a physical address, especially with Google Now. They don't let you do cable boxes anymore. So that started very differently for me and has just kind of evolved along the way it started with is using my family's address, you know, I got their permission to be able to do that. But things changed. And so now, my office manager has been happy to kind of take that physical location role on
Collin 15:15
one of the things when it comes to growing a new service area. And, you know, you kind of touched on it is the business has been, it's a little slow growing. At first, as you're getting this off the ground, how do you manage staffing, expectations, and busyness and schedules when you're kind of in this growth phase of acquiring new people?
Michelle Sabia 15:34
Yeah, that is, that's something that we talked about, from the beginning. It's, it's an expectation. And I think, also, that's why our hiring process is so. So different, and so much more intensive, if that's the right word to describe it, we have a lot of phases. And, um, and the software that we use, really helps through that process. So we just really, from the beginning, we, we that's what we talked about, you know, especially with Connecticut, we're still new to the area, we're still working on getting more business, and we look for the right fit, like the type of person that would would be a right fit somebody who is not looking for that full time, part time consistent, we really explained the industry. And, and unfortunately, there's a lot of applicants that, you know, don't continue on to the next phase, or it's just not a good fit. Because it's it's such, it's such a unique industry that it takes a very special person.
Collin 16:53
It does, i i That has been the hardest part for us with hiring in their new area, because we're in our in our in our home area, we can basically tell them exactly what the schedule is going to be. Because we've got a lot of consistency, it's pretty set, we know things are gonna be busy hiring, when you're growing like that, it's look, we know they're going to be busy and slow periods. I don't can't tell you how busy they are maybe five hours a week, there may be 30 or more hours in a week, when we get to that point. And then trying to help educate people, like you said on the industry and what a schedule looks like, the number of times when we say this is a part time position and somebody goes great, I'll do 39 hours. And it's like, that's not sometimes you get that you might get that, but you're most of the time you're not and, and trying to describe to them how people book in what a typical day looks like we spent a lot with, I feel like we spent an ordinate ly large amount of time working with people on that. Because they don't understand that they either say things like, Oh, I'll take the evening shift, or I can work eight to five. And it's like, that's not what we do, or do. I've got things beyond that. So helping people understand that is is one of the biggest hurdles I know. And then and then kind of not placating them, but educating them about? Yeah, this is slow. We're new to this. It's going to be slow for a little bit. Is that okay with you? Do you have other parts of income? Are you going to be able to grow with us as we grow? I think just being frank about those conversations really helped set that the tone for them, then it helped them understand what what they want out of it, too.
Michelle Sabia 18:28
Yeah, I agree. And then also not even part time like we really I'm losing words, I need more coffee, but we really tried to explain that it is supplemental this this is not your primary source of income. This, this isn't even like really a secondary like, yeah, for sure. It's supplemental, and we try to explain that from the beginning. And we also asked, you know, what, what is their expectation? What do they need to make in a month? And? Yeah, just make sure that they understand that they're probably not going to make $1,000 Even 500 Plus on a consistent basis?
Collin 19:18
Yeah, at least not for right now. Right? That and kind of letting them know, like, look, this is what we're, this is where we are right now as a company and this is what we can provide. These are things that we can do and we are working to grow. And are Is that okay with you? And I think fine. It's, it is really hard to find people that are okay with that, that have the skills that you need and that are interested at the pay that you're offering. And that that takes that takes that time.
Michelle Sabia 19:47
It does. Yeah. And then also listening to their response and taking the time to not try to make them feel comfortable about questions that you're asking or what it is that their expectations are?
Collin 20:06
Yeah, I'm, I am terrible at asking leading questions of like, well, as a company, we do a lot of social media, and it's really important to us is our what's your experience with social media? Of course, they're going to answer Oh, yeah, I'm really good at that. And while the blog, because it's important for the answer, it's like, no, just ask, what's your experience associated with making social media posts? And it's, it's trying to remember that, to not lead them to not guide them? And I think like you said, not try and make them feel good, right. I, when we first started hiring in the new service area, I felt bad telling them Look, I don't have any dailies right now, I don't have any clients right now. But I need to hire you. Because that's the only way we're gonna get this, this stuff going on. And I felt bad. I felt like I had to kind of hide that from them and make it feel like we were something more than we were. And now it's just very like, this is what we're doing. This is how we're trying to grow. This is what we're looking for and who we need to be in this position. Is that you? Right? And just being
Michelle Sabia 21:03
honest about that? Yes, yeah. And I've gone through that, too. And then also, with the hiring process, and our applicants, we've created phases through that, and one of the phases is having them submit a video on a question that we ask. And the question is, why shouldn't we hire you. And so that's a good one for attend, you know, paying attention. But then also, we do get people that say, I don't feel comfortable, you know, sending a video or having my face on a video or whatever that is, and they may be a great candidate. But that's a big part of our company, you know, culture. So unfortunately, we have to put them in the not hired file.
Collin 21:52
Yeah, and knowing exactly what you know, the purpose of this video, sure, it's to listen to their response. But there's so much more involved around that. That is important. It's kind of like, when we do our interviews, it's like the interview starts before before the interview starts. What's the communication? Like, before they get there? How did they arrive? What are you know, what time do they arrive? How do they approach wow, like, all that is part of the interview, and it will continue to be part of how you're assessed as an employee. It's not just the Petcare side, it's everything else around that. And that was something that I know, we had to take a huge step back and try and look at holistically as we work through those steps. Now, I love the different titles that you have for your positions you have dog walker, pet sitter, pet care specialist, pet care professional, what do all those mean with with paws and claws?
Michelle Sabia 22:43
So are you looking at the hiring add? Or do I have that somewhere on the website?
Collin 22:48
I think that was on the hiring, when I went to when I went to apply to be a pet sitter. And I saw that I could also apply to be a pet care professional. And I thought,
Michelle Sabia 22:59
oh my gosh, okay, cool. Yeah, so we have it. And this has been changing over time, too. On the website, we have pet care specialist. Yeah. And that just embodies, I guess, pet sitter dog walker. But within our ads, we've got all the different ones there. And though, and I'm still learning, you know, the whole, it's like you're, you know, basically you're fishing, it's, you know, what, if you have the same thing out there, you're not going to catch very much. So just kind of broadening your fishing net, or whatever, by having those different titles within there. And that's what will get more people to apply. It's just by having the different titles. That's really it. I mean, aside from that, it's all basically the same thing.
Collin 23:52
Okay. No, that's, that's, that's very fascinating. And it also helps kind of key into, to me a little bit of psychology behind the person who applies for the dog walker position versus the pet care professional position, what were they searching for? What, you know, what are some of their expectations around this, and like you said, if somebody's only certain, you know, someone may have professional experience. So they may search pet care professional, they might not search dog walker. So you have to make sure that you're showing up for how people are looking for the information and for the position that you have there. I mean, we do that with our clients, right. We're all about SEO for clients and trying to make sure that we are a good match for them and doing keywords and doing blogs and all that stuff on our website. Same thing. Why aren't we doing that for our staff to figure out what are they searching for? And how can I get them connected to me?
Michelle Sabia 24:41
Right. And we'll probably touch on this too. But what I have learned in my business support group is that your staff is really your most valuable client. Your staff is going to be doing say, I mean, depending on how how good your business is going your staff could be doing $20,000 In business revenue versus a client that may be is, you know, 3000 a month. So it's really your staff is, is who your most valuable client is that we
Collin 25:20
have to be serving them. We can't forget that they are utterly critical and important to our business operations, whether we have one staff, whether we have a part time staff, whether we've got 50, knowing I couldn't do the business couldn't do what it does without you without them. And that's, that's a critical thing. So am I meeting their needs? Am I am I serving them well, every day in every way, and making sure that they have what they need to do the job that the business is it's meeting the business mission and our goals and our objectives, and that they're at the end of the day happy, right? Like I won't, I want happy people working against me, because I have been an unhappy pet care professional, I've been there. It's not fun, it's drudgery. And it's awful, and you don't do good work. So how I need to make sure that we are protecting and setting people up for success.
Michelle Sabia 26:12
Yes. And I think that also goes along with not booking them for too much. Even if somebody is super eager and wants to do a full day of visits. I don't think that's something I would regularly scheduled them for. Because I have been a burned out. Pet Sitter and my love for those pets aren't, aren't I mean, it's there. But it's what is that compassion fatigue? Is that something that you just talked about? Yeah, yeah, that's podcast recently. And it's so true. I've I felt that. So knowing that I can then, you know, let that staff know that. It's not a good idea to be booked that much.
Collin 26:57
Yeah, that's an interesting conversation that we've had with our team members who are in our new service area where we're growing. It's very light work right now, and going and going, Hey, what two days do you want off? And they're like, my, to take what why are you asking for when I want time off? It's like, because it will come? Trust me, trust me, we need to get this scheduled. And it's things like that, or just being accommodating to them. And like you said, going, hey, yeah, there are 18 visits today, you're not doing all of them, because I need you to show up tomorrow.
Michelle Sabia 27:32
And yeah, do a good job. It's our visits are actually untimed. So if you have that many visits a day, you're probably not going to be there for the amount that you could have been, you're not going to be paying attention to the client or to the pet that you could have been your visit reports are not going to be up to the you know, that that it would have been, but because they're so booked back to back to back. I mean, it's that's overwhelming
Collin 28:05
it. So how do you make those untimed visits, work and set proper expectations with staff and
Michelle Sabia 28:12
it's, um, it's a new change. And honestly, it hasn't been that big of a difference, because even though we had all of those timed options available, in most cases, we would end up either going over or if we did have a busier scheduled day, we didn't have the option to leave maybe a little bit early, even even though everything has been taken care of say it's a cat visit, and they went under the bed like you know, 10 minutes ago, and want nothing to do with you. So it gives us a little bit more flexibility of actually having untimed visits, I definitely am enjoying the on time visits. It's it's much more simple. So now all we offer is drop in visit and a dog walk. That's it.
Collin 29:10
That's fascinating. And I know that that definitely breaks from the norm for people's expectations and how it and how it's managed. So do you when you're when you're billing that? Are you billing for time? Or is it still one standard rate for each one of those,
Michelle Sabia 29:24
just one standard rate, so we no longer charge for our
Collin 29:27
time. And I think what it does with those is it really helps you in the moment to relax and not be stressed out about that. And it helps you pay attention more and helps you realize okay, I'm here for the care of the pets. I'm not here to make the 30 minute mark. I'm not here to make the 45 minute mark, because you're right sometimes it's even when shooting with some dogs. It's going okay, well, they're done. They went back over and they lay down. I'm kind of I mean, it feels bad to say what's going on. I can't You're wasting these last five minutes here, I can move on at this point. And that helps you have that kind of ebb and flow of, of knowing, Okay, this one needs to be a little longer because there's mess or there's medications or there's multiple paths. And this one can be shorter because it's, it's a, it's an antisocial cat that's not really interested in this. So we're just gonna go okay, you know, we're done. And it kind of helps you move through your, your days a little bit better. Yeah. This is I'm fascinated by this, because it just
Michelle Sabia 30:29
don't get here your wheels are
Collin 30:32
making so many notes on my on my to do list. Michelle, it was not fun. But I like that because as far as just setting expectations with, with staff to know that, like, okay, like, do you have those conversations of okay, well, obviously, this can't be a three hour visit, we do need to make sure we're doing the work and we're meeting the needs without without really stretching that.
Michelle Sabia 30:56
Yeah, I mean, we explain that it's between 20 and 40 minutes. Ideally, obviously, 30 minutes is still that ideal time. But simplifying that menu item list of time available has been pretty freeing. In addition to that, we also, I guess, discontinued, if you want to call it that overnights. And that has been in big part because we have switched to employees about was that like a year ago? Yeah, two years ago, 2022 years ago? Yeah. So there are a lot of very stretched labor laws that basically just priced us out of the market. I mean, unless we want to charge the client $300 on night, for a 10 hour, overnight. I mean, so it just being able to simplify what we offer and then really work on specializing in those areas.
Collin 32:05
Have you heard of time to pet dog from fat to the bone pet care as this to say, time
Doug 32:10
to pet has made managing my team and clients so much easier. Our clients love the easy to use app and scheduling features. And our sitters love being able to have all of their information organized and easily accessible. My favorite feature is the instant messaging by keeping conversations on time to pet we are able to monitor our team and ensure nothing ever falls through the cracks.
Collin 32:29
If you're looking for new pet sitting software, give time to pet a try, listeners of our show can save 50% off your first three months by visiting time to pet.com/confessional. I think that's critically important and I know overnights are definitely in flux right now with people's stuff and and we we have in our new service areas, that's something we realized is in that community in that in that city, people's expectations when they say they hire a pet sitter. They mean they hire a house sitter, and they have expectations for somebody to be there overnight. And so we do come back and we quote them, okay, that'd be $200 a night, you can hear their jaw hitting the floor. And there's a long pause, and we go but we can also offer these other things and giving them talking through the services and options and alternatives for them. And realizing like this not a good fit for everybody all the time. And to simplify I think is really powerful in our businesses but when you think about it like for us we offer a dog walks and pet sitting right that's, that's quote unquote it. But dog walks right those there's such a variety in there for the kind of walks the style of walk, what we do on the walks like those are, there's a lot that goes on there. petsitting right. It's not just that we do exotic pet sitting we do cat sitting, we do dogs, we do aquarium care. So even though there's it's simple, there's still a lot of diversity in what you do. And then like you said, you look at what you do, and you go okay, where are our strengths? Where are our weaknesses? And how do we begin to specialize into this market? Yeah,
Michelle Sabia 34:02
I mean, you could definitely do that. With the website we actually just redid our website through marketing it's gonna be because before I was just doing it through GoDaddy, I built it myself it kind of just evolved over the time but this was the first time hiring someone and it's been a good process but it's I decided to keep it very simple I didn't want to cause any decision fatigue for the potential client looking on our website and that's along the same lines with taking out a different time visits it's just very it's just the two options and then I mean we do have where if you don't have a pet will check on your your house so I kind of going back to what you said before house sitting. Um, we have that labeled as house sitting but more and more I realized Is that when people say house sitting, they're really thinking that this person is going to, like live in, you know, live in a living center? Yeah. So I changed that recently. I think I called it home check, because I didn't even know how to label it. But it's like that is not at all. What I was thinking when, you know, putting in the house setting, but and we do that occasionally, because in both areas to here in Arizona, and in Connecticut, you get people that are, we call them snowbirds here. Sure. So they're not they're here, six months out of the year, they need somebody to still go in every I don't know, a few days or a couple of weeks to check on to make sure that there's no weeks inside. I mean, some people will hire a concierge, I think it's called. But we get people to that will just hire us to go and just to check every couple of weeks. And that's what that is.
Collin 35:55
Yeah, yeah, this finding the right terms to speak to the market is really important. And something we should not take lightly. Because there's, you don't want to have to be constantly disambiguating these things that we were that we were talking about not cross talking to one another, either on our social media posts or on the phone when they when they call because that was something they'd call and they say I'm looking to hire a pet sitter. And I'd start talking about our pet sitting services, and they'd go so how long like, you can sleep at my house? And I was like, oh, right, I just wasted a lot of time. So it's, it's that's what
Michelle Sabia 36:33
it is. And again, it's just you learn through that. And you you do it differently next time, like we only recently with this website changed the petsitting visits to drop in visits. I've never been a fan of that term. It's still something I'm not completely excited about. But that is what it is. It's a drop in visit. And I think by having that term there that then it's a little bit more clear on what we offer. Yeah, well, we even get okay, yes, we've got the Instagram, we have the website, I'm really working on answering the phone, calling people back, I am not perfect at it. It's I mean, depending on the day and how I feel that day, you know, it's it's not my favorite thing to do. But once I get on the phone, it does give me energy and it is usually an enjoyable conversation and it's great practice. But I think I'm just so worried about being perfect, or wanting to give them what they want. And I'm like so fearful that they're gonna want overnights and we don't offer that and then feeling like I'm on the defense before even picking up the phone and having to explain to them what a professional pet sitter is. And that person that they hired previously, who has you so nervous about, about hiring a pet sitter who had their boyfriend over was not a professional pet sitter. And and why we do it differently. But even then, they don't want to hear that. No, I think it's just the practice of asking the right questions and then letting them talk.
Collin 38:19
Yes, absolutely. And not being on the defensive because that's we don't that's not a good place to be coming from as a business. And so one of the things that we've done when people ask for overnights is, I've started to ask, are there medical or behavioral needs that for why you're requesting that that's a great and immediately sets up the expectation of where I'm coming from so because without because what do they say? They say, well, Fifi just doesn't like to be left alone. Yeah, go, okay, that's not a good fit. Like, here are the services that we can offer for this other stuff. And we can work up to that if we need to, but trying to at least steer them in a positive direction and like you said, asking good questions and letting them talk to really hone in because at the you know at the end that conversation Yeah, it's up to us to go this is a good fit. This is not a good fit and not be not feel guilty about that. I feel guilty a lot whenever I have to tell people I'm not a good fit for them. Because I feel like we should be I should be I should be able to do this right. It's, I should be able to offer this thing. And I'm not in going No, it's because I don't want that. I don't want that stress. I don't want that headache. I don't want to do that. That's not the business I want to run. It doesn't always take away the guilt but it is there still sometimes.
Michelle Sabia 39:30
So did you was it you on one of the recent podcasts where you were talking about just because a staff or a client says you should do something doesn't mean that you should Did I hear that?
Collin 39:45
That was probably yeah, that's that sounds like something Megan would say. Maybe Yeah, like a business
Michelle Sabia 39:52
boundary? Yes. Like just because they're saying that you should offer a certain service does it mean You have to I must say I do kind of hear Meghan's voice. Yeah, that's true. And I'll even get some of our staff, you know, it's like, oh, well, you should you should charge the client extra for this, or you should do that. And oh my gosh, does it drive me nuts? Because I'm not hiring them for their business advice. I've got people I work with professionals that I work with, to get that professional advice. And I can't help but get kind of, you know, defensive. Yeah, like you said, defensive is tough. Yeah,
Collin 40:42
that's a good point. Because they, we hiring people for the positions, and they, they have opinions, and it's fine to sit down and hear them out and try and go, Okay, what are you trying to tell me? What are the concerns? And what are you actually trying to say through this and, but then, to flip that and go, you know, but they don't know the business operations, they don't understand a lot of the business expenses and what I'm required to do and what I can't do, you know, when I go back to overnights when somebody says, I'll do all the overnights it's like, well, technically, like, I can't like if somebody has an eight day overnight, like there's some serious bad labor laws here. But but to take the time to sit there. And we'll we've had to do that of explaining some of this stuff to them of like, I hear you. And I understand that you really you're what I hear is you're really passionate about serving our clients that people come to us. These are some of the boundaries that we have, and why we have them and some of the limitations on us as a business. And that's, that's why we're operating the way we are. And you don't have to go and tell the big details are like, here's my budget spreadsheet. With some of that stuff just takes a little bit of educating and seeing, again, for both clients and staff whenever they have those kinds of questions and ultimately go. And though, because of all that, like, this is how we're going to operate.
Michelle Sabia 42:05
Yeah, no, that's a really good way of looking at it.
Collin 42:08
And it's hard, though it's again, because you feel defensive of like, well, why are you telling me how to do this, you feel guilty, because you're not, you're not quote unquote, serving the client? Well, because they want something that you can offer. But at the end of the day, this is why we talk a lot about in business to understand why you're in business, what your mission is, and what you want out of it. And if nothing, if you have things that are not bringing you closer to that, it's time to take a stab at it. That's why we set those. So we do have those boundaries. Like you mentioned, Michelle, if we do have these boundaries, for reasons for protections, but because we don't want to go down that road, that's something completely different that we don't want to offer. And and it's important to know that and be able to communicate that to people as well.
Michelle Sabia 42:46
It's like you're either moving closer to where you see yourself in the company in the future, or you're moving further away.
Collin 42:55
Exactly. It's always and it's tough for me to to realize there's four there's backward isn't there's a lateral movement of like, just kind of in between zone of like, recognizing like, okay, even a lateral move may be good for a time. But if my goal is to get somewhere, I can't just be walking sideways the whole time.
Michelle Sabia 43:15
Great way to look at it.
Collin 43:18
Now, with everything going on, and being so, so busy. How do you how do you in answering all these questions and fielding phone calls? Awesome. How do you find time to step away?
Michelle Sabia 43:29
And do other stuff? Yeah. It's not as simple, structured, plan or answer. It's really taking the time when I have it? Um, honestly, yes, like yesterday. So we had one of our employees here in Arizona, she injured herself actually on the job. And I can say that because she is an employee, and we have a setup with workman's compensation. You know, we were able to take care of her through that ordeal. I mean, it was a serious injury. And so she spent months in a rehab facility. But she came back April 1, which was amazing. And she's so willing and so eager to help and so passionate about the pets, our clients and our business. It's so exciting. And I have some amazing employees who all share that passion for the pets, our clients in the business. I mean, it's just, it just it's it makes me so happy to think of that. So I have her and then I have another pet sitter here where they're they're both, like load me up and I did and I still struggle with thinking I have to do a lot of the visits myself. So That's been a growing learning experience for myself is is like I hired them to work with them to work they want to work. And why it's but yeah, that's something that I worked through. And so I have pretty much the entire day off yesterday, which was amazing. And I did struggle with some guilt. Like, I just felt a little lost at first and I'm, I'm thinking, oh, gosh, I should be doing this, I should be working, I should, should should. And I was able to have, you know, a little talk with myself. And, and it's like, no, this is this is what it's supposed to be like all of the work with, with that I put forth with hiring. And I mean, all of that this, this is the point. And so if I get a day where I'm not spending the entire day on work, that's okay. I mean, I've gotten to this obsession, addiction, I could even say where I'm, I'm a workaholic. And so I was able to I went to Target, I got some cat food and a few things at Target. And I just kind of like, went through the aisles and looked at the clearance stuff. And oh my gosh, it was so weird. But it was so nice. And I was talking to my staff a little bit through that. Because you know, that's still a part of it, I still have to be available. The goal is to have an office manager, they are who they are handling all of those conversations back and forth, and only come to me if that's an emergency. I'm not there yet. But that is the goal that I see for the company and for myself. And then after that I texted my, my brother and was like, Can I take my nephew to the park and I picked him up and I went to the park and I was there for like two hours. He was there playing I was sitting on a blanket in the shade. I mean, it was beautiful. And I literally I sat there I put my phone away. I didn't look at it the entire time. So, I mean, it's just taking those moments.
Collin 47:22
It is it's knowing when to take advantage of those because we know we don't get them all the time. Right? Yes. And it does take it's kind of it's kind of weird to think about, but it does take prep work to get in a relaxed in a in a mindful state is I have to be ready to take advantage of that. Because, you know, if we plucked you up right now instead, okay, you're not doing any work in the business anymore. Go have fun. It'd be like, Oh, okay. Like, what do I do? So you have to work toward that. That is something that we have to have to embrace and be willing to let go of this stuff. I know, we've had times where it's, we're sitting on the couch with Megan and I and there's nothing going on. The kids are at school and we're like, I feel like something's wrong. Like, shouldn't we be doing something like, yeah, I feel like we should be doing something to fix this. You're right. It's this kind of addiction to I'm not doing anything, something must be wrong, or something's Yeah. And I remember when we brought on staff, and we started doing stuff, and we were looking at the company revenues. And for us, it was weird, because we were still, we were making more, but we weren't doing all that work. And so we it felt wrong, that our business was doing this stuff, but it's like, but I personally wasn't that busy. Yes. That's it's a shift. And then we have it's growing and becoming comfortable with that, too.
Michelle Sabia 48:40
Yeah, yeah. And it obviously changes. I mean, it's just, it's just, like a constant change, I guess, with how you handle that. But, I mean, ideally, I would love to be able to take that time in the morning and have you know, your morning routine, whatever that looks like meditation, I would love to get into meditation, where I'm taking 510 15 minutes of sitting there with your phone either away from you on silent, and maybe you have a guided meditation. But that's all you're doing is literally focusing on the words from that meditation and breathing and that's it.
Collin 49:25
Yeah, quote unquote, quote unquote that's it, even though that's one of them like it's It feels weird to kind of like it's active relaxation of like it's where it's it's important work and sometimes we have to rephrase it in our minds of I'm it's not that I'm doing nothing, right. This is important. This is super important for me to do right now for me to embrace this. And that's, that's also part of this. Growing into our role as it changes as our business evolves of growing into a manager growing into a boss growing into a leader embracing being a founder, all of this stuff. He's kind of growing into that. So how does that How has that been for you growing into these roles that, you know, five, six years ago, were kind of these nebulous ideas?
Michelle Sabia 50:09
That's a great segue. Oh, goodness, let's see. So, my, my mind just kind of like, literally expands into so many different areas that, um, and I think that's what's exciting about it is that passion really never dies. I I mean, I've never done anything. So consistently, daily, and not get bored. I mean, every single day. Um, yeah, it's just, there's so much that I could do with it. And there's no end line, like, there's no graduating from this, this, I could do this forever, and it would constantly evolve, which is overwhelming and exciting at the same time. But I think a big thing with that, just again, going back to setting that time for, you know, myself outside of the business is scheduling time for it, but also putting myself my serenity, my sanity. But first, really, because as soon as you put other things ahead of that, I mean, that's the that's, you're gonna lose your business, you're gonna lose your friendships and relationships, if you if you don't put yourself in your serenity first. So everything you say yes to, you're saying no to something else. And in most cases, I'm saying no to myself, or no to my friends, no to my family. So that's, that's something I constantly try to work on. But evolving into a business owner or a manager or leader has been a weird thing to wrap my head around. Because, yeah, I mean, I did, I started this as just somebody who wanted to make some money, taking care of pets. And what it turned into is my my love for being a business owner. And it's, it's, I don't know, it's so weird. Um, but I think it's just having that support system, and not doing it alone. So I am a member of a mastermind group for junk consulting. And I mean, that the support that I get from that group, the professional people that I connect with, in there, I mean, yes, follow up is pet business owners, but also just professionals in the business world, you know, accountants, marketing, gurus, customer service, experts, um, we did a meeting, I think it was yesterday, where it was with, you know, like, a CFO, how to be how to be the CFO of your company. And but that's, that's what we are. That's what I am, I am, I am the CFO of my company. I mean, break it down. That's exactly what we're supposed to do. However, the CFO isn't the person who is doing the day to day bookkeeping and those things. Again, we are the ones up in the watchtower, we are the ones that are creating what we want to create out of the company and to take the company in the direction that we want to go to.
Collin 53:43
I said, That's it, it's insanely powerful to think, to think about that to think about, what what's my actual role in this company? Not that not the tasks? Not the things that I do, but what's my, my individual purpose here? And what do I want then flows from that in the company? Again, when we think back to what am I committing to, there are things that flow from that when I recognize my role in my company, in as the owner, founder person, could be whatever we want it to be, right, we can decide, however we want to be, which is a little daunting at times to realize just how many options are out there, at least for me, but it's also very freeing to know, there are things that I like things that I don't think that are my strengths, things that are my weaknesses, and I can embrace those, I can hand those off, I can do whatever I want with that. But that starts with recognizing how to identify as a role in this business.
Michelle Sabia 54:33
And I think that's why too I struggle with talking about it because we do so much. I mean, there's so much going on in our head. It's ridiculous. And I think that's why it is important to write it down. I'm like, gosh, I don't know who I heard it from or who even said it, but in I don't even know if it's true. But someone went into Einstein's office and his desk was a mess and the guy asked him for a recent invention or something. And an Einstein was like searching through his desk through all his notes. And the guy is like you're Einstein don't you just know it in your head, and he's like, I write it down, empty my head so that I can come up with new inventions, I have to get it out of my head. And I always think that, we have to read it. Because it's also our heads would explode, I think
Collin 55:28
just wrapping our brains around, all that we do is is the first step in that. And an interesting exercise, maybe, you know, write your resume, from the standpoint of these different hats, right, don't just write business owner, write down each one of your roles and everything that you do in that in for your resume for your company, and your years of experience there, just to see it all on paper. Because I think for me, just viewing it all on there. I think I just thinking about this would go, I don't think I believe I do all that stuff. There's no way one person could do everything. And just recognize, oh, I've done all that. But that is something that I I've done with the help of others with my group group of people that I've had around me with reaching out to people, but that's something that I've been able to work on. And that should definitely be a sense of pride and acknowledgement in us. So that we can then these are things that that's me, that's part of who I am.
Michelle Sabia 56:22
Yeah, because it literally started from just somebody who would take care of pets and walk dogs. Yeah. And I will take that even a step further, is, in addition to creating that resume, let you know, in listing out all of the responsibilities you do for each role, put, you know, put a salary to that. Because then, then, you know, in the future, when you're ready to hire that, you know, everything that that person needs to do and how much it's going to cost for that. And also creating those systems and processes, the standard operating procedures. And having those you know saved so that, again, it's out of your head, all of this stuff you just know, out of your head and on a piece of paper so that if you have to have somebody do it for you, if I have to have my I want my office manager to do something, all I have to do is to record to that SOP, and she has the instructions right there. And then that also adds value to your company so that when the time comes, you can sell it, you know, we don't have to just, quote unquote, retire and then hand off our clients to another local company. No, we do not. We can either have people running our business or we can sell it.
Collin 57:52
Yeah, there's a lot that flows from that when we start recognizing what we do. I love that idea of putting the salary to that and going to somebody if I hired somebody to do this, this is what it would cost me do it. I'm currently doing that. So you can see okay, when is it time to hire? And what what how do I want to plan for this moving forward? Right. You mentioned one of the groups that you're a member of, and kind of this mastermind group but you were also You were also involved with the Arizona professional pet sitters and Associates group and I did want you to talk about that group and and kind of what's what's taken place and maybe why something like that is is important to the community.
Michelle Sabia 58:28
It was very important. For me early on in my business, it was a great way to make those connections with other pet business owners in the area. I did learn a lot, I still am close with the some of the people in that group that I have met one recently got married, and she invited me to her wedding. So that was really special. And that and then a lot of the knowledge that I got early on, I feel that I kind of outgrew it a little bit just based on the mindset that a lot of those a lot of the other members ran their business and also I was able to make other connections virtually like the mastermind group. I think COVID really did speed a lot of that up. I'm not feeling like it has to be in the same area. Um, and then obviously, you know, having a location in another state. Um, so, so COVID really changed the group, we did our best to hang on to it. But ultimately, I'm essentially it just kind of dissolved. So so that group is no more. I was the president for a while the VP and I really wanted To take it to the next level, but unfortunately, it just it didn't happen. And so, you know, we could always start another one. But I don't think I don't right now, that's not something I would be interested in doing only because of the support available virtually. And seeing that it's just as beneficial as if it was within the same state.
Collin 1:00:29
Yeah, I think I think you're right COVID did a lot to the industry, it put it pushed many of us forward technologically whether that was software, it pushed us forward, understanding our business numbers, which was nothing, any of us had no clue what's going on. And it got us into groups and communities that we weren't previously members of which I think is really important to know, our options out there. You know, the idea of a of a state level group is an interesting idea of this, all the things that kind of we agree to, and we hold ourselves accountable to and all the things that we want to push forward as something. So I still think it's a very interesting idea is sad that it wasn't able to last but but maybe another day, Michelle, this has been wonderful conversation, and I very, very, some heavy stuff, some some new ideas of operating and diving deep into how we make these decisions and how we view ourselves. And I have just really appreciative of your time today, and it with everything you've got going on. But I know there's a lot more here. So how can people get connected with you follow along with everything you're doing and watch you along this journey?
Michelle Sabia 1:01:42
Sure. So both Facebook and Instagram, our handle is paws and claws pack. And our website is your pet sitter dog walker.com.
Collin 1:01:52
Still jealous of that website address?
Michelle Sabia 1:01:57
Looking to shorten it, but I cannot figure out what to choose.
Collin 1:02:03
That will be a we'll have a whole episode on naming and URL links, because I think that's entirely again, one of these hats that we wear, all of a sudden we are internet gurus.
Michelle Sabia 1:02:15
And it's like if we knew what we knew now in the beginning, that could go on forever.
Collin 1:02:22
Exactly. Michelle, I this it really means an awful lot of up here and sharing with everything you've got going on. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Michelle Sabia 1:02:31
Thanks, Colin. One
Collin 1:02:33
major aspect of growing as a business owner and evolving as a business owner, is the fact that when we make decisions we commit to them, we commit to them because we are constrained by our goals and objectives. That is what is so purifying by sitting down and understanding our why understanding our objectives and understanding where we want to be in five years. Those goals and objectives act as boundaries to the decisions that we can make in the universe with infinite choices before us. It's hard to move forward. When we get that refining light of the goals and objectives of the decisions that we need to make in our business. It is just that much easier to continue to step forward and move forward over time and with clarity and with peace of mind in that what we're doing continues to move us forward, not backward, not sideways, but forward towards those goals. who really want to thank our sponsor today time to pet for making it possible. And thank you so much for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and we'll be back again soon.
