429: Being a Problem Solver with Kevin Johnson
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What problems are you solving for your clients? Kevin Johnson, owner of Planet Paws Pet Care, views his entire role as being the problem solver for his clients. Kevin transitioned from being a defense attorney to running a successful pet sitting business. He emphasizes the importance of communication skills in building trust with clients and identifying their pain points. He believes in being a problem solver and guiding clients to the right services, even if it means referring them elsewhere. Kevin also highlights the value of networking, joining the chamber of commerce, and filling gaps in the market. He and his wife work together in the business, with her focusing on marketing and business operations. Kevin participates in events to raise awareness of his business and engage with the community.
Main topics
Skills from a lawyer
Building trust
Building a network
Guiding clients
Main takeaway: Part of building trust is in identifying pain points, and then being able to discuss solutions rationally and calmly.
About our guest:
Kevin founded Planet Paws Pet Care, a full-service pet care company in September 2021, along with his wife Kristie, when they couldn't find good pet care for their dogs.
Kevin spent 18 years as a criminal defense attorney. Originally, intended to be a part-time business, Kevin relinquished his law books for a leash full-time when he found out his health greatly improved, and his stress levels went down. In his diligent quest to offer the best services, Kevin provides overnight dog boarding, vacation care visits, dog walks, as well as potty and play visits.
Kevin is certified in pet first aid and CPR, a Fear-Free Certified Professional Pet Sitter, and a NAPPS-certified pet sitter. He is a proud member of the National Association of Professional Pet Sitters (NAPPS).
Kevin and Kristie are proud dog parents to Finn, a vivacious four-year-old Siberian Husky, and Poe, a lively four-year-old American Staffordshire Terrier. These close-knit relationships with his pets allow him to understand and cater to the individual needs of each furry friend that steps into Planet Paws Pet Care.
Outside of his professional capacity, Kevin finds solace in camping (they still camp in a tent) and riding his beloved Harley-Davidson motorcycle. He loves attending comic cons with his Star Wars costuming group. He engages in his Rumble Boxing classes to keep up with his active lifestyle and energetic pups.
With his diverse experience, Kevin ensures every interaction at Planet Paws radiates warmth, care, and professionalism. As a passionate pet lover and a dedicated professional, he’s dedicated to redefined pet care; creating a haven for your pets, while providing peace of mind for you.
Links
https://www.facebook.com/Kevincjohnson99
kevin@planetpawspetcare.com
https://www.whole-dog-journal.com
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
dog, pet, people, clients, lawyer, business, pet sitters, wife, pet owner, gift, kevin, good, boarding, walk, events, visit, services, expecting, greet, meet
SPEAKERS
Collin, Kevin J.
Collin 00:02
Welcome to pet sitter confessional. Today, we're brought to you by time to pet and pet perennials. How do you identify the pain points that your clients have when they come to you? And what can we learn a lawyer about reading the room and communicating well to our clients? Today, we are very excited to have Kevin Johnson, owner of planet paws pet care to talk about his background as a lawyer, how he uses those skills to gain that know like and trust factor during the meet and greet, and how to walk that line between understanding whether our client is really all that needy and high maintenance. Are they just a rational and passionate pet owner? Let's get started.
Kevin J. 00:45
Yes, Colin, thanks for having me. Really excited to be here. My name is Kevin Johnson. I am the owner of planet paws pet care along with my wife, Christy. We are in Macomb County, Michigan, which is the northern suburb of Detroit. We're about eight miles north of Detroit. And we started our business in September of 2021. We were just coming out of the pandemic at that point. And this is what everybody finds most interesting about me is that I spent the last 18 years of my life as a criminal defense lawyer here in Michigan, and what I was coming out of the pandemic, like every other business that I was running, or everybody was running, I had to rebuild. And while I was rebuilding my law practice, I was looking at pet sitting. And the reason why I was looking at pet sitting is because we have two dogs ourselves. And we were trying to find adequate pet care, we knew we were going to start going on vacations again. And in the past, we've always had family members that were able to watch our dogs. We've never really knew petsitting existed, you know, four years ago. So as I was trying to find somebody to watch our dogs, I really wasn't impressed with what was in my area here. So a friend of mine had recommended rover, I went on there to take a look on there. And I'm like, this is interesting, okay, find some people here. And it kind of, I don't know what it was, but something just hit me. And I'm like, you know, they do a lot of overnight boarding and our dogs are very dog oriented people so to speak, they love being with dogs, they love playing with dogs. So I thought, you know, while I'm rebuilding my practice, you know, little extra money comes in maybe we'll just, you know, we'll board a couple of dogs for other people on there. So research the meet and greets and and how to. So I got out a rover and started doing that. Then I thought, yeah, why don't I pick up a couple of dog walks. You know, during the day, I've got time, you know, still waiting for, you know, courts to open up and everything. So I started doing some walks. And it was probably about five months later, I went to my annual checkup with my doctor, and I'm sitting in the doctor's office. And you know, she's behind her computer, and she kind of pairs up by side and she says What happened to you? Immediately I start freaking out. It's like, oh, right, here it is. Yeah, yeah. Why? What are you reading behind there? And he says, Well, she goes for last 10 years, I've been fighting with you on your a one. See, she goes, it drops significantly. And I'm diabetic. So that's my blood sugar levels. She goes, your weight is significantly down, she goes, your cholesterol went down. Because I'm looking at your face. And you're actually you're not as stressed as you normally are when you come in here, and I'm like, Well, I wasn't as of 30 seconds ago when you started talking. But she said she goes, all your numbers are going down. She goes all of a sudden, you know, in the six months that I last saw you she goes this drops significantly. She goes, What did you do? I'm like, I just I kind of been walking dogs. That's, you know, the only exercise I've been getting and everything and and, you know, we, you know, I told her about the side pets. That's sitting business we had. She says whatever you're doing, keep doing it. Because this is you know, she goes, this is what we've been fighting for, for you for like the last 10 years. You guys. It's it's having an impact. It's having a positive impact. So I thought, Oh, cool. So I went home. And for the rest of the afternoon. I'm just sitting there thinking about this. And I'm like, you know, you have that? What am I doing with my life? You know, kind of conversation with yourself. So Christie comes home and she asked me, you know how the doctor went, and I told her everything. And I said, I think you know, I might need to change careers here. I said it's you know, it's going to be a significant change. I said, but it's, you know, that there's definitely a need. I think if we grow this, we can definitely get the business in the area. It's definitely needed here. I said, I think I can make, you know, go have this. She looked at me and she says if your ego will allow you to say I used to be a lawyer and now I'm a dog walker. She goes, I'll support you. And I'm sitting there thinking there's worse things that can be called. I mean, I think I think being a dog walker is an improvement over a lawyer. So you know, she sat down and she she supported she goes yeah, she goes let's let's make a go of this. She goes I've noticed You've been a lot happier, you've been less grumpy, you've been less irritable. She's, I've noticed a significant change in your health, she goes, I'd like kind of like to keep me around for a few years. So she goes, let's do this. So that's how we, that's how we got started. And then, you know, I kind of put the practice on hold and started focusing on, you know, building up, you know, my pet sitting business. I think that's the
Collin 05:23
first time I've ever heard doctor's orders as the reason somebody started their business. But
Kevin J. 05:31
Exactly, yeah.
Collin 05:33
That's, that's fantastic. And so Kevin, do you think, do you think it was, it was the kind of work that you were doing the the physical activity or, or something else involved, or maybe a lot of other factors, with that kind of made that shift internally for you?
Kevin J. 05:50
You know, that's hard to say, I think it was, you know, I, I've always had dogs my entire life. So I've been a big, you know, dog lover, and I've had cats too. So all the cat listeners out there, too, I'm not, you know, I'm not prejudiced against cats. I do love cats, too. So I think it was just the fact that, you know, it's a business where I knew what I was struggling with, with my pet care. And I was actually providing a good service to other people. I've always believed that it was that thing, you know, be the change you want to see in the world. So I thought, you know, this is what internally for me, it was like, I want to be this change, I want to be able to help people with their pets. Because I know the struggle I've had. And you know, being a lawyer was, you know, was kind of stressful, especially being in the criminal defense field. And last few years, I just haven't been happy. And you know, I think I think with a pandemic hit, I think everybody had that. What am I doing with my life? You have plenty of time to sit there and think about what you're doing with your life. So I think that was for me, it was more of a, you know, is this a time? Is this the universe telling me it's time to change, do something different? And, you know, if I, if I didn't have the struggles with my pet care, I probably would have gone down with this pack.
Collin 07:00
Yeah, you wouldn't, wouldn't have that need. And that's, we see that a lot too, with just clients. So they don't have a problem until they have a problem. And now all of a sudden, they're looking for a solution and in our own lives. You don't know what you don't know, until you are all of a sudden faced with this decision or the circumstance where you're going, Oh, yeah. How do I overcome this? Or what does this look like for me?
Kevin J. 07:22
Right, right, exactly. That's what it was. for me. It was just, it was a struggle of trying to trying to solve my problem. And I found a solution to solve my problem and everybody else's problems, too.
Collin 07:33
So as a criminal defense attorney, that's, there are a lot of skill sets in there. How have you or what have you brought over into your own business? Or how has that helped you in I can imagine the the meet and greets are very intense right now.
Kevin J. 07:52
Well, it's nice that I don't have to go to a jail to meet my clients. So that's, that's always a positive there. But I think I think the biggest skill, you know, my lawyers is the communication skills. You know, a lot of a lot of my, my criminal clients, I did what they call low severity felonies. So you know, I wasn't, I wasn't defending murderers, or rapists or anything I was, you know, it was more drug users. It was more, you know, people get into fights. You know, a lot of times it was somebody's, it's a first offense. So they're freaking out. They're scared. They don't know this system. So my job was just, you know, part of my title was counselors, so I had to sit down, and you know, okay, let's, let's calm down. Let me explain everything. Let me explain what we can do, how we can do this. And this is kind of a weird way to put it, but I see a lot of similarities with people and their pets, you know, they, you know, especially those that are new to pet setting, you know, here's a perfect stranger coming into their house, they don't know, you know, is this guy going to take care of my pets is you know what he's doing. So I knew how to identify the pain points that my clients had, and be able to discuss those, you know, rationally, calmly, and just say, listen, here's what I'm going to do. And here's how I'm going to do it. And this is in the end result is going to be this. And this is what we're working to do. I think, you know, just being able to calmly rationally discuss with the clients is one of the skill sets that I had.
Collin 09:18
I wasn't expecting that answer. But it's fantastic because you're right, how many people call us scared, nervous how the people who call us and go I've never done anything like this before, which I'm sure you heard a lot from your new clients as a lawyer I've never did this has never happened to me before. I don't know what's going on and right, they come in scared not knowing how it works, because they're used to calling their mom or have a neighbor to come over and they understand that system. And this is a whole weird world for them and being able to present them and sometimes we can, I know we can get self conscious about the number of steps that we have clients have to jump through and what the process is. But what it takes is just calmly presenting that to them of going this is just the normal All right, this is what this is. And this is how you're going to, I can imagine that gives a lot of people a lot of peace and helps with that trust process too.
Kevin J. 10:08
Exactly, exactly. And that's, that's my goal with the people is to get them to know, like, and trust me, because, you know, as a pet sitter, they're entrusting me with two of their biggest assets that they own number one, their pet, and number two, their house. So they're, they're scared. You know, a lot of you might think that, Oh, they're needy, they're, you know, they're high maintenance and everything. But, you know, I step back and it's like, these are the questions, I would be asking a pet sitter, if they, you know, if I went to them, and, you know, my wife and I are big helicopter parents, when it comes to our dogs, I mean, my wife so much more that, you know, when we were in New Orleans, she was freaking out the whole trip, you know, our dogs, okay. Well, you know, because we had actually boarded them at the time, our regular Pet Sitter wasn't available. And she's like, Oh, my God, are they? Are they okay? What's what's happening with him? He couldn't, she couldn't enjoy her, you know, really enjoy being down there. And, and that's what I tried to to solve for the clients, like, Look, you spent a lot of money and time in this vacation, you know, you're excited about it, the last thing I need you doing is worrying about your pet. So that's why it's always constant communication with me. And I think that's the biggest focus that I had when I started this is being able to communicate with the clients, you know, send them the update, send them pictures of the pets, tell them what they're doing, you know, find something funny that they did, hey, you know, they, you know, they were they were chasing each other in the back yard. And, and, you know, these sort of things. So that way, when they get the updates, they can say, Okay, I feel better, I'm gonna enjoy my vacation. One less worry, one less stress I have to worry about. So it's more of a stress reliever that I tried to provide for them. You know, and by doing that, it's not, you know, looking at your clients and saying, Oh, they're so needy, oh, they just want they want everything or, you know, they're impossible. Because you know what, I'll be the same way, you know, when, you know, when I leave my pets with a pet sitter, so I understand where they're coming from. And I always sit there and try to walk in the other person's shoes to get their perspective on life. And then that's how I approach them.
Collin 12:15
What was going to ask how, where do you start with that you come in, you're going to meet this client for the first time? How many touch points have you had up until that up until that meet and greet? And then for you like, what, how are you processing? What they're saying to you? And how do you start organizing that all that information?
Kevin J. 12:34
Well, I mean, I developed, you know, with a meet and greets, I developed a checklist of things that that I want to know, you know, taking care of your pets, you know, you know, feeding schedule, medications schedule, what's their favorite toy? What's your favorite tree? What's the activity they like to do? You know, just kind of like, what I'm here, what should I do with the pet to make them comfortable? So I create that, you know, that checklist? And then I then I asked my client one question, I said, What is it did you expect of me when I'm here, and, you know, I kind of leave it open ended so that they could give me you know, some people will say, you know, hey, you know, you got everything covered, I'm good with this, other people will just don't, they'll go into a long, and I'm sitting there taking notes, you know, ya know, they're like, oh, you know, if it's thundering out, they'll do this. And they'll do that. And, and sometimes I like to do this. And if it's windy out, they might be over here. And alls I'm doing is just, I'm taking notes. Exactly. And I keep those notes on a file. So every time I go do another visit, you know, I've got my notebook here, and I got my cheat sheets, and I know how to take care of their pets. So it's just, you know, it goes back to communication and listening to what the clients telling you. And also listen to what they're not telling you. Because some, you know, I've rented some clients that are just like, I don't want them to think I'm a weird pet dad, or pet mom or something like that. Nobody's weird pet mom or pet dad more than me and my wife. So you know, we've, you know, whatever you've done, we've done it too. You know, we've been crazy with them, too. So, you know, I tried to tell them, you know, just let me know everything you need to know. You know, this is an open forum, it's a safe space. The more I know, the better I'm going to take care of your your pet. So everything revolves around just communication and listening.
Collin 14:23
And what a what a powerful question, what do you expect of me? And that's, oof, that's a big question. And many I know for me, like, I hear that question. And I start immediately worrying, are they going to ask too much like, are they what? Are they going to have too high of expectations? Can I even meet those expectations? But until you just put it all out there and let them talk and that follow up of like, then just stop talking and listen and act and take notes and information? Because then let them be the open book. I think I've I found that when i Meet Greets, when I'm at a meet and greet and I'm the When doing the most talking, there's actually less understanding of what's expected of us. But the next time that we come over, that I need to be talking about 20% of the time, and asking just pointed direct questions and then listening because otherwise, I, there's, we have no idea of knowing, and we then end up assuming a lot of what they're looking for.
Kevin J. 15:20
Exactly. And that's what I'm trying to avoid is by letting them you know, finding out what their expectations are. And then me kind of tempering their expectations like, okay, yeah, I have no problem watering your plants. Sure, I'll take your garbage out on garbage day, bring the kids back yet. No, I'm not going to clean your house. No, I'm not going to cut your grass, you know. So, you know, when they when they tell you what's expected. They're up here, I'm down here. So eventually, we'll get, you know, we'll meet in the middle. And they understand what I'm going to be doing, I understand what they expect, we come to a meeting of the minds. Another lawyer skill, that's, that's the whole point of, you know, lawyers, you negotiate to come down to, you know, a good agreement. So my clients understand what I'm providing, I understand what my clients expect. And once you do that, there will be no problems I think a lot of pet sitters run into the problem is they don't adequately identify what they can do, or find out what their clients expectations are. And that's where you get the bad reviews, well, you know, I had a bad experience here, I don't want to deal with this client. And it all comes down to you guys just didn't get on the same page. And by asking open ended questions like that, you know, eventually you'll get down to where you come to an agreement. You know, your meet and greets, meet and greets, usually lasts about a half hour, on average. You know, I don't like to 10 minute meet and greets, because I don't think I got enough information from my client there. So I try to elicit more information for them by just, you know, basically being a lawyer and, and cross examining them, so to speak, until I get the information that I need. You swear the
Collin 17:05
man before you start the whole process
Kevin J. 17:07
now? Yeah, exactly. I do the you can handle the truth.
Collin 17:13
This is meeting all of my expectations. You know, right, the expectations of the clients, I distinctly remember we had a client where we thought as a company, we were providing an extended dog walk exploration period for an hour, in the afternoon for the dog, what the client turned out what they were expecting was actually an hour of training. And so we actually got feedback from them of these, you know, I hired these people for for a month, and there was no change in my dog's you know, you know, training or whatever, like this behavior. And I was, and then we realized, Oh, you, you hired, okay, right, there was some expense expectations here were you thought we were coming into train, we're walking, exploring, we're doing leash manners, we're doing this other stuff. So the dogs had behavior improved, but they were expecting a different result after a month. And it was a definitely a realization of ours of going, okay, like, we we don't, we don't want to hide, we don't want to not ask tough questions, because the bad stuff happens on the back end. And it happens publicly. And you don't want that. And so get it all out there. And that's fine. That's part of this process.
Kevin J. 18:26
Correct? Correct. Just by just by asking these questions, and, and I always ask, leads into it, because I, I imagined I would run into the same situation you did. So I always asked, What are the training methods that you've got the dog trained? And then they're like, Oh, we didn't get them trained? Can you do that? Nope, I am not a dog trainer. I don't have the skills for it. But hey, I know dog trainers here, let me give you one of her cards, she's right around the area, she's really great. They can work on this. And if you need me to, I even offered some of my clients, you know, I'm like, I'll come to one of your trainings free of charge. So that way, I can be there to you know, and it's more of a, you know, kind of like putting my client's mind at ease. You know, that way, you know that when I'm on the dog walk, I'll follow the same commands that they're doing. So I've offered to do that with some of my, especially my elderly clients that are you know, they've got a dog and, and they're worried about I don't know, if I can get them trained. There's there's just so uncontrollable, you know, let me let me come over to one of the trainings and I'll help you, you know, and we'll get through that I said, but I make it clear that I you know, I am not a dog trainer. If anybody seen my husky you'll realize really quick that I'm not a dog trainer.
Collin 19:39
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19:43
time to pet has honestly revolutionized how we do business. My sitters can work much more independently because they have ongoing access to customer and pet information without relying on me. I save hours upon hours of administrative time on billing, processing payments and generating pay checks. If you're
Collin 20:00
looking for new PET scanning software, give time to pet a try. Listeners of our show can save 50% off your first three bots by visiting time to pet.com/confessions. Sometimes we could feel bad of going, Oh, I don't want to say what I'm not, I don't want to say when I'm not, I don't want to let people down, I'll do my best. But if that's not who you are, what you are what you want to provide, you're not setting yourself up for success. We've even had clients who have called us and I don't know if this has happened to you, Kevin where? I don't know, or they don't really know what they're asking, right? Like, they kind of are so unsure, so new, that they're just kind of they just go, Hey, I've got this dog, and I'm leaving. And they stop talking. And you're going, like, so this is where questions come into play. Because now you have to help guide them into like, what really like what do you need? What has happened before? So I know you offer a variety of services, how do you try and guide them to one service over the other? Or do you go with whatever they reach out to you and ask for the first
Kevin J. 21:06
first thing. I always say, you know, if they if they're looking for dog walks, you know, I'll ask them I'm like, What do you you know, what are your expectations on the dog walk and most of them are just like, my dog really doesn't like walk in I just I just need to get them outside maybe get some playtime. It's like, okay, maybe are potty and play visit, which is definitely more than a drop in I just kind of made another cute fancy name for it. Like, okay, maybe the dropping visit, you know, we'll take them outside. You know, they'll go potty that will come back in, we're, we'll play some games inside the house. And like, Yeah, I think my dog would enjoy that more. Okay, so, you know, this service might fit you a little bit more. And you know, in with a potty employee visit, you know, I'll say, okay, you know, I'll check over your house before I leave, make sure all when, you know, windows aren't broken in and everything, and then we'll make sure the toys are picked up before I leave. So and then when it comes to like, I think we're one of the very few pet sitters out there to actually board dogs in our house, we only take two dogs at a time just for safety factor. I mean, you know, with our two dogs, that's four dogs versus two humans. So we have no choice but to play zone defense. So any more than that, and, you know, we'll we'll get well, we'll get we'll get rushed and creamed, you know, by the dogs. But I always, you know, I always talk to my clients and like, like, I don't know about boarding and, and, and we don't provide overnight stays. So I make sure that they understand that, you know, if they hire me for my vacation care, which is the pet setting part of it, I'm like, I don't do any overnight stays, you know, what I do is I make the three visits a day to you know, get your dog fed water, you know, potty, but I don't, I don't actually stay in your house. So I make that clear, right from the from the get go so that, that way, they're not expecting me to be in the house. So when it comes to boarding or vacation care, we always do a meet and greet when boarding at our house to make sure the dogs you don't get along. And if our dogs don't, you know, if the dogs don't get along, then I'll suggest you know, we could do a vacation care, maybe your dog feels more comfortable at home. You know, we can give those visits. A lot of people who do the boarding they they like it number one they don't they don't have anybody coming into their house. There's still that fear of, you know, I don't want anybody traipsing through my house. I've actually I've actually had one client tell me like, I'd be too embarrassed for you to walk into my house. We're not meeting people, I just I'd be too embarrassed. But a lot of people are looking for that, you know, with the overnight they're looking for the socialization. And I say two of my greatest employees that I have are my dogs. They always play down to the level of the dog that's staying with us. We had a 14 year old great day or a night Great Dane on Greyhound stay with us one day. And this dog was just a couch potato it Yeah, I mean it got off the couch, go outside, go potty eat going back into the couch. And my dog saw that and I'm like, okay, cool. He just wants to sleep. We'll just we'll leave him alone. I mean, one dog will go up there, do a quick sniff on the couch. Make sure they're okay. That's my dog. Oh, and I always called him he's the he's the bed and breakfast concierge. He's always making sure you know, everything's going and then you know, my husky thin. You know, even with smaller dogs, he's very gentle with him. So he'll he'll get on the ground and let them roll over on him and everything. So this is why we're able to do the boarding is just because our dogs are very, very friendly with dogs. And they play down to the level and I let everybody know that too. And I always get pictures of this too. It's like, here's Finn, here's your little Corgi. He's jumping all over Finn and Finn is having a great time with this.
Collin 24:42
Oh, that's awesome, right? And that's you have that, that kind of connection with and that ability to provide that. Do you ever ever get somebody who calls and asks for for boarding and you know, it's not going to be a good fit? Do you try and steer them towards the drop in visits and that vacation care? Are you gonna work out? Does that work out?
Kevin J. 25:02
Yeah, yeah. So I always I always do the meet and greet. Even if I, you know, my gut says, I'm not sure if this is gonna work. You never know what to do the meet and greet. So if the meet and greet goes disastrous dogs don't get along. They're, they're reactive, they're agitated towards each other. I'll sit there and say, Listen, we can we could do the vacation care. And I explained to him exactly, you know what that involves? And I've had a few clients like, okay, yeah, maybe that'll maybe that'll work. You know, we'll do that, you know, we'd like you. We'd like your business philosophy and everything we do that, you know, you're gonna get the other people like, well, I'd rather have somebody staying in my house. Okay, fine. Let me refer you to somebody who I know that does overnights that, you know, I would trust? So I tried to keep a referral network of other pet sitters. Number one, those who provide services that I don't do. And number two, those who have service areas that I don't. So it's, it's important for me to keep that network going along with dog trainers and everything else. So yeah, I do if the boarding doesn't work out, I do try to steer him to the, to the vacation carrier that we have that works out for him. So sometimes they take it up on it other times, you're like, Well, no, maybe I'll just, maybe I'll contact one of your overnight people. Cool, great. You know, I solved the problem for you, even though, you know, we're not doing business together. But I'm a problem. I'd like to be a problem solver. And I did that. And the reason why I do that is because okay, it might not get their business. But maybe this person might refer me to somebody else, you know, they might say, hey, it didn't work out for our dog, because our dog just doesn't, doesn't get along with other dogs. But he does boarding so you know, and he steered me in the right direction. So maybe this is somebody you need to contact. So even though it's not an opportunity today, it could be an opportunity tomorrow. So that's why I try to, you know, keep those lines of communication open and just helping people with their problems, even though, you know, it doesn't it doesn't put money in my pocket. Who knows six months down the road? It might?
Collin 26:57
Well, and it is that being a problem solver being a resource and really viewing ourselves as a way to get people connected with that community? How do you reach out to that that referral network and go about finding those people because I know that that can be a little scary sometimes for a lot of people is to think, oh, I don't want to talk to them? Because they may feel like competition, or they might not like me, or I might, how do you approach building out that network?
Kevin J. 27:23
Well, first thing I do is, I joined my local Chamber of Commerce, which has been, you know, huge for me. But I look at other, you know, I look at my competition that's out there. And, you know, I look at their websites, and I'm like, you know, they, their philosophy fits with mine, you know, and I reach out to him, I'd say, Listen, you know, I'm kind of a solo Pet Sitter here, I, I've, you provide services, I don't use service areas, I don't, I'd like to sit there and talk and see if there might be a business, you know, connection, here's something that I'd be able to refer. And I always make it about me referring to them, not them. You know, referring to me, I always believe in a philosophy that givers gain. And so I make it like, I might have somebody you know, in the future that that might need your services that I can provide or area, or even I'm too busy to take this client on. And I'd like to be able to refer them to you. Those pet sitters that get it they're like, Yeah, that's a great idea, like to talk with you too, and reach out, you know, other ones are like, and I can understand their thinking like, what does angle What's he trying to get at? So those people I'm like, Look, let's let's meet for coffee somewhere, you know, I'll buy coffee, and let's just, let's just talk about our practice, our business and everything. And so that way, you know where I'm coming from. And, you know, yeah, I'm not trying to steal business from you. I've got business on my own, but I'm trying to help you out. And maybe somewhere down the road, you'd be able to help me out. This is what, you know, referral networking is all about. And I'm a huge proponent of networking out there, especially with with other pet sitters, vets, dog trainers, pet stores, everything that touches the pet industry.
Collin 29:03
When I hear when you're talking through that process of looking at your business, find the gaps, find where things are, you don't offer things where you don't serve us and then find other people that feel that that's usually the easiest ask for somebody is to reach out and say, Hey, you do something I don't write then it's we're not we don't feel like we're stepping on toes or there's a lot of overlap and then you can kind of fill in from there but for reaching out for those first couple to build your confidence to start that network, finding those gaps is really one of the I really appreciate that. You pointed that out.
Kevin J. 29:36
Exactly. And that's how I went about it. It's like, I don't provide overnight, so I'm looking for pet sitters that do because there's people that want me to do overnight stays there's I've had people contact me who are an hour away because they've read my reviews and everything and and they like my you know I just recently I had one that that wanted to talk to me because of my fear free That's it or certification. And but they were like an hour away. And I'm like, I can't, you know, I said realistic, I have to charge you the hour trip there the hour trip back plus a half hour visit, did you're looking close to $100 a visit. I said, that's, that's crazy. I said you shouldn't have to pay that. So you know, I said, but let me let me find somebody who might be fear free, or fear free, like out there. So I did find one pet sitter that was in the area of like, you know, they are their pet sitter International, their their, their certification out there, they do have some fear free training, I think these guys would be a good fit, I've talked to myself, we've we've discussed business together, I said, if they were coming to my house, I would feel very comfortable having them take care of my dogs. So they handle your area, I trust them. If you trust me, you should trust them, too. So that's what I did is I identified areas and and services I didn't then I went out and looked for those people and just politely told me, so I'm looking to fill gaps in my business. And I told them, I said, I'm not looking for a referral fee, or anything else like that. I said, you know, and a lot of people will kind of like, raise their eyebrows at that. But I'm like, No, seriously, I'm I'm trying to be my goal is to be a problem solver. Because if I solve this guy's problem, he's going to remember that and maybe he maybe he becomes he or she becomes your customer. But I know he's got friends and family that might be in my area. And he's gonna say, Well, you know, he helped me out, he's over here. This is the area he does. You know, when you help somebody else that that can never be a negative.
Collin 31:34
You mentioned that you joined the Chamber of Commerce, why was that important to you to do as as your business?
Kevin J. 31:40
No way I looked at it, it was more of a community. Community belonging. When I was a lawyer, I joined Chamber of Commerce or commerce effect the same when I joined as a lawyer, which was always interesting, when I when I finally showed back up to the meetings, everybody remember, he is a lawyer now as David has a dog walker. So those are always fun conversations to have. But it was it was more of a networking thing. It was the sense of community, you know, getting to know other people in the area. And I was looking at it more. So it's like, okay, I'm starting a brand new business here. And I've got a lot of questions. And you know, I mean, I need website help I need, you know, probably it help eventually. So it was more of a networking, my business, but what are the needs for my business? And how do I go about finding people to help me with my business. So through that, I was able to find the guy who built my who redesigned my website, and that's been a huge game changer for us. I've also found, you know, friendship, friendship and camaraderie. My, for example, my, my wife loves wine. I mean, she loves bottles of wine. And one of the guys in my networking group owns a local winery. So that's been a great connection, because I send my wife over there, she gets her wine, and loves it. So it's been, it's been helpful. But mainly, it was just to belong part of the community and and to get myself known out there in the community. Awesome. That'd be known as a lawyer anymore. But hey, here's, here's the dog walker. Here's the pet sitter now. So that's why it was important to me.
Collin 33:16
When we were talking about community as pet sitters getting to know other pet sitters joining the Chamber of Commerce, what you're doing then is you're beginning to known as a, as a business owner, like just period, in a statement like that you're joining kind of that group, you're networking with them. And it might not be just for all straight referrals, but it's growing recognition, growing legitimacy, you're learning from other people at the just running a business, then you need you're kind of this kind of any my group of just random business owners, I need to my group of pet sitters, and leave my family and friends and finding these places of where you can fit in and go for certain questions and to discuss the issues that you're facing.
Kevin J. 33:55
Right, right. And what I discovered is when I first joined this chamber, I looked around and and you know, they didn't have any pet sitters there. So I got real excited. I'm like, I'm the only Pet Sitter here in this group. This is gonna be awesome. I'm gonna do you know, I got real excited everything and I told my wife about it. I'm like, we gotta join this. There's there's no other pet sitters. This is awesome. And my wife is always the she's I guess she's the yin to my Yang. He's always the well, why do you think there are no other pet sitters in this, you know, I'm thinking I'm gonna get all this business. And she's kind of temporary me to like, Well, wait a minute, maybe there's a reason maybe there wasn't a need in this thing. I'm the kind of person that will like it. Let's jump off this ledge and see what happens. And my wife will kind of fear over the agency and there's no water down. There's a lot of jagged edges. Maybe we should sit back and think about this. Yeah. So she's always been that good to temper me down. And she didn't she didn't discourage me from joining the chamber. She just says temper your expectations. She goes I don't want you to get disappointed you know if it doesn't work out, and she's we've been in it for we're going on Our second years member of this chamber and he is very excited. She's like, it ended up being a good choice ended up working for us, you guys, but my whole point was to, don't get too excited, like you always do.
Collin 35:12
I know you work your work closely with your wife to run the business and and to be successful. You mentioned a few times of kind of your personality differences and how you view stuff. What is it like working with her on this business?
Kevin J. 35:26
It's, you know, I agree, it can be a double edged sword. She still has her regular job. She's the manager at a local Chrysler dealership, okay. So she handles more of the the marketing and the business business end of it. So she handles our Facebook or our, you know, marketing materials, everything else, I go out and play with the dogs all day, she says, but she's, you know, again, it was our personality where, you know, I'm like, you know, let's get on this, let's
Collin 35:56
do this right away. She's like, well
Kevin J. 35:57
just go, let's think about this for a minute, let's, you know, think and she has an MBA, so she understands, you know, the business end of it more than I would, and, you know, so she, she kind of tempers me, she kind of, you know, grounds me and says that back, sit down, relax, let's figure this out. So she's, she's been really good at that by handling the business end of it that, you know, I, even though I'm a lawyer, I never really had a business background, or anything like that, you know, so, you know, I don't understand marketing, I don't understand accounting, I don't understand, you know, all this other stuff. It's like, you know, I just want to get out there and walk dogs. And she says, Well, there's backend stuff that we got to handle. So there's been a good division of, of, of labor for us in running the business. And then she, she backs me up whenever I, you know, if I can't make like, if, if we're doing a pop up event or something, and there's walks or visits that have to be scheduled, I always tell her, I said, Well, do you want to do you want to work the event here, talk to the people or so you want to walk, go walk these dogs. Every time it's always I don't want to talk to people, I want to walk dogs. So she's not really a people person. But I kind of am. So this is this is another Fit is that, you know, if we, you know, if we gotta be in two places at once, and I got to deal with the people she sends me to do that while she goes, walks the dog. Every time I do a meet and greet for a walk or a visit, I always schedule them in the evening, so she can go with me. And then I introduced the client to her and say, Listen, I'm probably going to do 90% of these things. But there's going to come a time where I can't or I'm sick. Christy here is going to take care of it for you. So that's why I want you to meet her and I want the dog to meet her also.
Collin 37:39
How does that introduction usually go? Are people surprised to see both of you? Or are they generally excited that you've got your you know, you're working together?
Kevin J. 37:48
I always tell them that I'll be bringing my wife, you know, when when we set up the meeting and I say I say I'm gonna bring my wife with me. And I tell them why I said because here's my backup. She's also owner of the business. So you're gonna be both owners. And most of them are like, Oh, wow, okay, that's, that's pretty cool. You know, that way, I don't have to set up another meet and greet. And yeah, my dog gets to know her. So again, comes to dealing with people, I'm the one doing the checklists, and everything else, and she's in the other room, you know, playing with the dog. But, you know, most most people are like, that's smart. That makes sense. It makes me feel a lot better. Because one question they always they will always have is like, what happens if you get into a car accident, and you can't visit with my dog. And I'm like, here's my backup. And she understands that if I'm on the way to hospital, in the ambulance, that she needs to cover my visits first, before coming to the hospital to see me I said, You're not a doctor, you can't do anything there. So make sure the visits are done, and then come see me in the hospital. So it makes sure but you know, it doesn't get that bad. But I find you know, if I'm sick or or something happened to me, you're going to back me up. So she needs to know the routine and everything. So you know, when you hire me you're hiring her to so we work as a team. So that's why it's important for my clients to to meet her to even when I do the boarding overnight, or Meet Greets in my house, I schedule those so that she can be there so that the client can meet my wife because, you know, come evening time, if I've got to do drop in visits, she's going to be here watching your dog, it's important for you to know her and be comfortable with her. Because if you're comfortable with me, but not with her, you know, it's probably not going to work out.
Collin 39:26
And really thinking through that as as a business owner and this is part of that communication to the client, right of get building that know like trust factor that you started talking that you talked about earlier, Kevin of this is who we are, this is how we approach these problems. This is how we solve things. This is how we operate. And if you are listening to this and you know you don't have a spouse or significant other that you can lean on for this. It's involved with this. At least taking some time to plan out who your backup is and not being afraid to have that conversation with the client. Because it's simple Wait, it is going to happen, like just emergencies happen. Rent to tires go flat engines explode traffic happens, you get sick, like we we know those are an inevitable thing that's going to happen in life. So we need to have a plan. And then we need to communicate that plan with the clients before it happens so that they know what they're getting into.
Kevin J. 40:21
Exactly. And I think, you know, maybe a month ago, you had you were talking to Amy Sparrow, and absolutely love Amy. And she was talking about her emergency plan. And it got me thinking, you know, after she's, you know, I mean, well, we don't have hurricanes in Michigan. So it was one thing we didn't ever have to worry about. But I started thinking like, wow, what happens if both of us are in the hospital? What's going to happen? So, and that's what we've been working on ever since then it's like, okay, and that's why it's important to network with other pet sitters, so that they can be your backup, you know, hey, listen, if something happens to me, can I, you know, can we work out an arrangement where, you know, you might be able to back me up, and I'm gladly able to do that to you. We used to do that. As lawyers all the time, you know, if I had to be in three different courts, you know, it was impossible. So I would call up, you know, another lawyer and know like, Hey, you're going to be in this court? Yeah. Can you get into German for me on this case? Yeah, no problem. I'll cover for you. By the way, are you going to be in this court next week? Yeah. Can you cover this for me? You got it. So that's what I'm trying to develop with with other pet sitters. It's like, Look, if if you're overloaded. You know, I'll help you out if you help me out. And and this is why I look at other patson was necessarily is is competition, but I look at them as partners also.
Collin 41:39
It Yeah, it is we're partners and problem solving is really what that is. And finding growing that Network helps us help. It helps us it helps them it helps the pet owner and at the end of day, we want the best care possible for that pet. Whether it's with us or somebody else like that's, that should be our goal.
Kevin J. 41:56
Absolutely a pet comes first, always Absolutely.
Collin 41:59
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Kevin J. 43:25
Yeah, we just started doing those this year, what I was trying to do is just kind of it's another presence to get my name out in the community. So one of our local pet stores that my dogs absolutely love going to started doing these adopted shop events. So what they would do is they would set up an event where they would bring in a rescue, cat dog rescue, and they would say come out, adopt your next best friend, come check out our vendors. So I got involved in that. Because I mean, number one I wanted to network with rescues, always wanted to see if there's something there that I could do to help them to be you know, a service to them. You know, my goal is to empty the shelters. So whatever I can do to help that. It's good. So I was looking to network, and yeah, we don't sell anything, you know, we're not selling a product. So it's hard to gauge, you know, how successful with this with this event is I always look at these events because it doesn't cost me much. I mean, most of these events were like, it was 50 bucks and the money went to the shelter. So you know, I'm good with that, you know, you know, I give I get more than that. And those little donation jars, you know, every time I see a pet shelter anyway, so I looked at that and like if I was able to get my name and and my services in front of one person at the event, it was a success for me. So I've been able to talk to somebody. So that's what it was. It was it was you know, Hey I'm Kevin with Planet paws pet care. Here's what we do. And a lot of people are like, hey, I need a you know, I need a pet sitter or I never thought about this or you know, we get to people like you know, like if I got spam do it but it'd be good to have a plan B, which always, always make sure you have a plan B, if you're going on vacation with your pets, you know, we do the same thing, we have a plan B, we're actually working on a plan C in case that doesn't work out. So what I do the events is my goal is just sit there and engage and talk to people. And then again, it goes back to you know, where my wife isn't really a people person. She comes there and she's she's good at setting up my booth. She's got to, you know, okay, this has got to go here. The card should go here brochures, you're good at that creative. Like, I just throw everything on the table. And it's like, okay, yeah, that was the witness Messier. So yeah, here's a brochure a, here's our, he's got everything organized. That's where her skill is. My skill is just being able to talk to people and tell them what I do, how I do it, how I can help them how I can solve their problems. And again, if I can't solve your problems, I probably know somebody that could, too. So that's, that's why we started doing the events is just more of a way to get our name out there. It was able to network with other shelters, and other pet vendors. So we have we have a lady here locally that makes homemade pet treats. Oh, my dog, absolutely. My dogs. I mean, it's, it's like dog crack to them. I mean, I cannot give them any other treat. But these treats. So I was able to develop a relationship with her. And we're working on some events for next year together. There's another lady that make dog mom products locally here that we had a relationship with. And she invited us to some of her events that she was going to do. And so what was the event wasn't necessarily like, how many dog walkers? Can I get out of this? How many overnights Can I book, it was more of? Who did I network with? Who did I talk to who's named? Who wouldn't I get my name in front of. So that's where we go with the events and doing this idea. Like I said, most of the time, these events, you know, you know, it's a Saturday afternoon. And you know, with the division of work that we do with my wife, sometimes I'll work the event myself, sometimes she'll come out. So, you know, also it does cost us time. And when you're networking. When it comes to networking time shouldn't be a cost at all, so so it's it's for us, it's important to get out and get our name out there and network.
Collin 47:13
Well, a part of it too, is as you're talking, I know a lot of pet sitters get frustrated that not a lot of clients and potential people in the community know about petsitting, they don't know that we're a thing. And one of the ways that we can take ownership of that as being business owners is to be more visible in the community and help raise awareness of what options are out there that we exist, that were a thing. And this helps, yes, US it helps the industry at large is doing some more educational outreach of hey, you know, you don't always have to do you always have to call your mom, you don't always have to take them to the kennel if you don't want to if they're sick, like we are a way to take care of your pets, if you didn't know that. Here's some more information. So it does. There's there's just so many benefits from that. And as a business owner, when we think we do think about numbers, we do want to count things, we do want to look at bookings and inquiry increases and all that is important. Yes. But then there are this other stuff of there's a little bit more bigger picture things that we need to keep in mind too, when we are involved in these kinds of events.
Kevin J. 48:19
Right, right. And for me, it's it's important to, because we do get the people who are like, Oh, well, you know, I got my neighbor kid that can come in and, you know, let my dog out. And it's like, okay, it's great that you got that it saves you money, probably and everything else. But some things to think about, you know, let me tell you about me, I'm on pet First Aid CPR certified. I'm also a nap certified pet sitter. So I understand, I can watch your pet and say, hey, something's not right here. I got to contact you and say, Hey, maybe we should get them to the vet because they're not looking so well. Fear free, certified pet sitter. So you know, I'm not going to just reach underneath the couch, grab your cat and say, Come on, it's time to eat. You know. So I tell these people, you know, there's there is there is a professional aspect to what we do and think about it. I mean, your pet, you know, for the most part, your pet is your baby. And, you know, things have changed over the years. I mean, I you know, I grew up in the 70s and 80s. And, you know, I mean, you know, the pet was just, it was it was dog, you know, like a dog out, you know, we didn't we didn't really treat them as family but it has changed over the years that they have become part of the family. So I tried to to come in the professional aspect of this, you know, it's like, you know, my dogs are the most important thing in the world to me. You know, their most important thing to my wife, you know, we're not going to do anything to jeopardize them. And that's what I tried to say it's like, we're going to treat your pets like we treat ours and if anybody follows me on Facebook, you know that my dogs are the most boiled things in the entire world.
Collin 49:54
I forget where I found I heard this statistic but 70% of pet owners would forego medical enter vention in their life, if it meant they could pay for medical intervention in the life of their pet, that that is that changes the conversation, when we are talking to people who are that dedicated to the pet in their home, that changes the language we use, how we empathize and sympathize with the problems that they're having. And a lot of times, they don't know what their options are, and just presenting to them what we can do for them. I mean, there was one time where I took a call from somebody, and he
Kevin J. 50:30
quote, just wanted pet care, right? And
Collin 50:34
that word just kind of triggers me a little bit because I'm like, Ah, we don't just anything like, are we over engineer everything. And I went through and I rattled off all these things. And he went, Whoa, I wasn't expecting that. And I liked those reactions as a business owner, because I'm like, right, you don't know what we do. But we have to tell people about that and realize that they have pain points that that we can listen to, and we can speak to as well.
Kevin J. 51:02
Exactly, exactly. A lot of people don't know that. You know, as a lawyer, I'd always get these. Hey, I got a quick and easy case. Okay, well, that tells me right now, it's not quick, and it's not going to be easy. So you know, it's the same thing. It's like, oh, my dogs easy to deal with. It's like, okay, so I go ahead and ask the questions and everything. And because we're like, I don't know if I should pay your prices, because my dogs so easy. So, okay, I'm going to turn this into an opportunity. So I asked questions, you know, relating about their dog. And then I explained to him what I'm going to do you know how my dog can Oh, yeah, he's got severe anxiety. Okay, well, that's not so easy than is it. But once they realize what I'm doing for them, and how I can provide for them, then they then they see the justify the cost. So, you know, my advice to anybody. It's like, if anybody sits there, and we're like, oh, you're, you're too expensive. Turn that into an opportunity. Because basically what they're doing is they're asking you, they're asking you, why should I? Why should I buy from you, you know, why should I buy from you, rather than you know, my neighbor who, you know, do it for an ice cream cone? Well, here's your opportunity, here's your opportunity to show what you can do and why you're worth that money,
Collin 52:08
really viewing that opportunity and not getting offended, which is hard, right? It was hard. I mean, just last week, I had a lady say, Well, no offense, but that's way too expensive. And my first i Boy, I really I was I've had I had a long day, and I was kind of at my wit's end. But realizing like, she doesn't see the value. And so I need to view this as an opportunity to educate on that value and see and let her know, kind of where where we're coming from on that. And you're absolutely right, Kevin, like that's, that is an opportunity that you have, it doesn't always work out, but it is an opportunity.
Kevin J. 52:42
Exactly, exactly. You know, you you can't get offended. And I guess that's one thing, I learned that a lot as a lawyer, you know, you got to have a thick skin. So you come into this. I mean, if people are I mean, there are people who are just going to be absolute price shoppers, and that's okay, that's not your target market anyway, you know, if the person is just looking to go to the bottom number, well, you're not at the bottom number. So that's okay. That's cool. That's, that's what you want to do. That's not where I'm at. We don't have a meeting of the minds. We'll both go our separate ways. But but don't get upset, don't get offended, use it as an opportunity to sell yourself and your services.
Collin 53:18
One thing that you did recently, Kevin, is you actually started a Facebook group for for pet owners in your area. And I was curious, why why this was something that you wanted wanted to do and kind of how it's been going for you.
Kevin J. 53:31
Okay, yeah, we just recently started that, um, you know, it started with part of our other other service that we do is we wrapped the poultry, food and supplement like, and so I started doing these online events regarding that, and I saw these people have these, you know, join my, whatever, VIP group or something like that. And I started thinking, I'm like, this is a great way to communicate with people because I, I've noticed that, you know, with my Facebook page, I post stuff on there, I'm not getting the, the response or the traction that I would think. So I started this Facebook group, and I call it cleanup paws pet club. And it was just a way for me to, you know, hey, let's let's talk pets, let's, you know, show picture your pet, you know, so, you know, I tried to post funny memes I post articles I see. You know, I think I'm up to about 100 members in there, I think. So what I'm doing is I'm, I'm sharing all this stuff with a group of people. And I think I'm getting more exposure that I went to the Facebook page, and I'm getting more engagement too, which is important. So we've we've been doing this for a couple of weeks now. And it's been really successful because we're getting a lot of people like, Oh, I love seeing other people's dogs and cats. So I encourage them, you know, Hey, did your dog do something funny? Let's see a picture. You know, show us your picture your dogs I I want to see everybody's dogs. I'm gonna see everybody's cats. And that's just dogs cats. But you know, I mean, if you got a bearded dragon, you know, throw that up there. You got a snake, spider, whatever, you know, whatever. When you're showing, you know, show love for your pets, and let's, let's see that, and it's just more of a, you know, kind of a laid back easy way to discuss everything that we love. And and then that's our pet. Hmm, I see
Collin 55:11
how that connects again to really everything that you're you're working on Kevin is is getting people connected, connecting people to people and connecting them to resources and information and really kind of doing this, this holistic approach to, it's not just the pet care when I'm in your home, right? Like, there's so much more here, there's a community of services of products here that can help you as the pet owner. And as you've said multiple times, Kevin, like, you want to be a problem solver for people and the more touch points that you have with with somebody in your community, whether they use your services or not, the more likely you're gonna be able to
Kevin J. 55:46
help them. And it's a way to, you know, show everybody it's like, you know, I'm an expert in my field, this is what I do, and show them other things. Like I'm, I'm a big fan of the whole dog journal, I've had a subscription to that for years. So I'm constantly sharing articles from there on the group. And it's like, I've had a lot of people like, wow, my dog suffers from that I better get him into the vet, or I better get this checked out. Thank you so much for sharing. And that makes me feel good, because I help somebody with their pet. I mean, they didn't know that their, their pet had this issue. And now they're gonna get that issue taken care of. And it's like, who knows, I might have, you know, that's so much going on, say I take this dog's life and cat life. But you know, there's something there that they're going to get taken care of just because it's your simple article that I read. And I thought, this is interesting. People don't want to see this.
Collin 56:37
Kevin, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show today and walking us through your journey and how you continue to reach out to help people and grow that community and network and just stressing the importance of that how it benefits not just us, but everybody involved. I'm just love your story. And I'm so thankful for the time being to talk with you today. For those listeners who want to follow along with everything that you do reach out, pick your brain. Maybe I was gonna say ask for legal advice, but that's not what they're gonna ask you about. You know, just just get to know you, and ask for advice and running your business and stuff. How best can people do that?
Kevin J. 57:12
Well, they can. They can always reach me through Facebook. It's Kevin Johnson. You know, you'll, you'll be able to see it. You know, there's a picture of me and my wife, my two dogs and my banner photo is my booth that I have set up. So I accept everybody as a friend so they can find me on Facebook. They can reach me through my website. It's planet paws, pet care.com. I'm also available by email. It's Kevin at Planet paws, pet care.com. Those are all the best way to reach me.
Collin 57:45
Okay, well, I will have links to that in the show notes. And people can click right through those and start following along with all the cool stuff that you are doing. Kevin, again, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to talk with us and share today. I've absolutely enjoyed every every moment of it. So thank you.
Kevin J. 58:01
Thank you for having me. I had a great time.
Collin 58:03
One of my favorite parts of my conversation with Kevin was when he said givers gain specifically when talking about building a network and reaching out to other people. When we approach relationships with a giving fashion. We will gain reputation, clientele, community status, brand recognition you name it. Humbly approaching those relationships with a giving attitude will be a win for everybody involved. We'd like to thank today's sponsors, time to pet and pet perennials for making today's show possible. And we really want to thank you so so much for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and we'll be back again soon.
