501: Success in Pet Care for Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs with Ilana Engel
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Have you ever wondered how neurodivergence can shape the way a business is run? In this interview, Ilana Engel, owner of Park Slope Pups, shares her journey as a neurodivergent business owner with ADHD. She discusses the unique challenges and strengths that come with managing a pet care business while being neurodivergent. Ilana emphasizes the importance of using tools and strategies, like technology and structured methods, to succeed. She also highlights the benefits of hiring neurodivergent staff and the need to break down stigmas and misconceptions.
Main topics:
Impact of ADHD on Business
Tools for Managing ADHD
Supporting Neurodivergent Employees
Benefits of Neurodivergent Staff
Addressing Stigmas and Misconceptions
Main takeaway: Neurodivergent people just think differently, not defectively.
About our guest:
Ilana started dog walking in college in 2006. She took up dog boarding part-time while she pursued freelance graphic design and illustration. After falling in love with lots of adorably furry faces, she decided to take on hanging out with dogs full-time. She has been surrounded by dogs daily ever since.
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, adhd, staff members, work, pet, staff, client, business owner, neurotypical, day, task, pomodoro method, helps, struggle, sit, learning, business, today, job, hours
SPEAKERS
Collin, Ilana E.
Collin 00:02
Welcome to petsitter confessional. Today, we're brought to you by time to pet and the peaceful pet music calm music for pets YouTube channel. Today's conversation is all about what it means to be neurodivergent as a business owner and how we can support those who are around us. Now, it is important to note that we are not doctors and that this is not medical advice. This is purely speaking from personal experience from both myself and Ilana. And we strongly support that if you are struggling in this area for you to get support that you need. Today, we would love to get your feedback on this topic, you can send that to pet sitter confessional@gmail.com or shoot us a message on social media. Now, let's get started. Today we are super excited to be talking with Ilana owner of Park Slope pups about being a business owner. But being a neurodivergent business owner, how that impacts her and how she runs her company and how it helps her better connect with her staff, as well as some of the things that she's doing to better support them. Ilana, I'm super excited to dive into this topic with you and super great to have you on the show today. Could you please tell us a little bit more about who you are and all that you do.
Ilana E. 01:11
My name is Ilana Engel I own Parksville pups in Brooklyn, New York. We've been in business for a little over a decade, and I have staff who are neurodivergent. And I am also neurodivergent. I have ADHD, I was diagnosed in elementary school. And it was pretty obvious early on. Because I have a twin brother. And we were in a lot of the same classes. And we would have homework or projects and a project that would take him an hour would take me three or four hours to do. And, yeah, ADHD affects my ability to do a lot of the parts of my business both in positive and negative ways.
Collin 01:55
Yeah, and I really want to dive into that, especially when it talks about you know, this, this kind of services and stuff that you're offering there a lot of it a decade, a decade, a long time to be in business, what got you what got you started 10 years ago.
Ilana E. 02:12
Um, so I was I majored in advertising in art direction, in New York. And it was the 2008 2010 era when there was like, a bunch of layoffs. And I was part of that layoff. And I started working for another company. And I realized that it was something that I could do myself. And so that's just kind of how it started. It just worked for me.
Collin 02:42
Yeah, it's one of those things that we kind of, we sometimes can easily see ourselves in as like, oh, that's, that's something cool that I can do. Yeah. Did you ever think 10 years later, you'd still be doing this and run into business with employees and everything?
Ilana E. 02:57
I never thought that I would, I would have grown this much. But I did like the second that I started doing it. I knew that it's what I wanted to do, because I loved it so much.
Collin 03:10
That's such a good feeling whenever you finally have that moment of like,
Ilana E. 03:14
yes, yeah, this is this job in the world.
Collin 03:20
Well, so you talked a little bit about your early diagnosis in in elementary with with ADHD. How did how did that impact you? And what kind of, especially when? Or like, what was the, let me ask this? What was the perception of that with during that diagnosis? And how's that? Have you kind of worked with that over the course of your life?
Ilana E. 03:40
I'm having ADHD was always really hard younger. And I think, I think a lot of people with neurodivergent NCEES. I think that a lot of them feel similarly you are like, essentially told that there's something wrong with you at least like my generation, that's how it was, you know, like, you're different than everyone else. And it like, it's, it's hard, because it's like, I guess for example, like, I have a really hard time with time management. I have my organizational abilities are like very highly lacking. I have a really hard time starting completing or like prioritizing important tasks. I have like impulse control. So I have like a really hard time like making important decisions without like, I do it right away before. I like sit down and think about it. And then like another thing that I feel like he's affected a lot of my relationships is people with ADHD tend to interrupt people in their conversations, which is always like, especially doing a podcast. I'm like, I have to apologize to you beforehand, because there is a chance that I might interrupt you at some point because I'll be like, Oh my god, I have to do that. But it was was always hard, especially with a brother who was so good at doing homework and like school stuff. And for me to like, sit literally parallel to him. And for it to be an incredible struggle for me, it was always really hard. But I was, like, set up for success. I had like a really great psychiatrist who like set me up with like, really great skills, I was on medication, I'm not on medication anymore out of my own personal choice. Nothing wrong with that, if people choose to do that, that's, you know, their thing. But I just, it was always everything was always a struggle. So
Collin 05:36
what kind of feels like you're just not like of the world, right? Like, there's all these people doing stuff doing? It's just seems so easy for them. And you're like, gosh, what, ah, and like you said, like it it's a, it's both this kind of an aha moment. But it's only an aha moment when you know what you can do with it. Just having that label is like, Well, yeah, now I'm the, like, you said, like, something's been labeled wrong with me. And, and I know, I struggle and I don't see this and everybody else it can be really isolating. And those moments it
Ilana E. 06:06
is, it is hard, like, you know, and I go back to like, being a kid. And like, the example is like, everyone else finishes their homework, and they get to all go out and play and socialize. And you're like, stuck at home, still doing homework for hours and hours on end. It's like, you know, it's fresh, it was rough, it's a lot better as an adult.
Collin 06:28
Well, you use the word and I've used the word neurodivergent. A couple of times. I hear I've, I've heard that term more frequently, I think in the last five years than I had had heard it at all previous to that. So talk to us about what that word really is, especially for people who might not have a be as connected to that as you are.
Ilana E. 06:48
Yeah, being newer neurodivergent means that your brain processes information differently. This ranges from people with medical disorders to learning disabilities and other things. Things like ADHD, autism, dyspraxia, dyslexia, are examples of what would be considered neurodivergent. People who are neurodivergent have a harder time getting or holding down jobs, socializing and learning than someone who is neurotypical and someone who is neurotypical is considered like the norm of like the the brain function norm. And I like to say like, like, when I talk to my staff, I'm like, neuro divergent people just think differently, not defectively.
Collin 07:35
Yeah, that's, that's a, I love that you phrase that because it is about kind of breaking some of those stigmas too, right? Of it's not, it's not a bad thing, right? It's not a death sentence we're talking about here, it's, it now means that we have to develop tools and some resources and some ways of working, that maybe other people don't have to or don't, or they have to adapt in different ways than we have to adapt to it. I think that's what's important, too, is just going look, this is this is just understanding how our brain works at the end of the day, and then what we need to get the things done that we've got that are, you know, that are on our task
Ilana E. 08:08
list. Yeah, there's, there's skills that you can develop that can help you as someone who's neurodivergent. And like, it does depend on what kind of neurodivergent see you have. For me, you know, my, I'm not a professional. I'm not a psychiatrist, but like, there are things that I've done that have helped me do my job better benefit my son, you know, do things to benefit my staff better tools that I've set for my staff? And, yeah, it's, you've just had to set things up the right way for yourself to succeed. And recognizing
Collin 08:44
that it's a it's one word, but it describes a huge swath of, of possibilities. And it's a big, big world. And so it is important then to get connected with people to have those going and talking with professionals than to really see okay, what what does what do I need, because that's at the end of the day going? Well, this may have worked for XYZ person, or they heard this on the internet, or I watched, I watched a YouTube video today. It's like, okay, but like, I need to work through some of this stuff, right? Yeah.
Ilana E. 09:19
Yeah, it's, um, there's, there's things that you can do. There's, you know, like I'm trying to think of, sorry, give me a minute. To some of the things that I do personally as someone with ADHD is, technology has been amazing in making the lives of people with ADHD easier. And one of the biggest things and I tell this to everyone I know, a google assistant or guests if you have an iPhone like Siri has been a lifesaver for me. Like to have something where I'm I like think of a thing and I'm like, Oh my God, there's this thing I have to do in like six hours and I'm not going to remember to do it. I just go to my phone and I'm like, okay, Google. And then it just like, you know, I set the task to do later so that I know how to do it. Like, before that existed as someone with ADHD, it was so much harder for me to accomplish something in a future state.
Collin 10:19
It is a wonderful example. Because with with that it's going, my the way I'm wired, that future stuff, it's just not there. It is just not. And, and yeah, that that one tool is just critical of you know, it's something that I've really only started to develop recently through, through the help of my wife, Megan of going, I'll say, oh, yeah, I've got to do that tomorrow. And she'll go, is it on your calendar? Oh, no, but I'll remember it. And she just kind of scares me. And I'll go, No, I'm not going to it. No, no, no. Okay, I guess I'll put that on. And it's, and that that is part of that going? i It is hard, because if you go, man, everybody else seems to remember this stuff just fine. Like they look at them doing these, and I can't. And so you do go through that moment of like, I, I it is that struggle to just go, You know what, this is what I need. And I'm okay with that. Because that's how I need to function right and go and finding those little tools. You said that was a great example. Because like, oh my gosh, that's that is that is that's what you have to do. It
Ilana E. 11:25
makes it so hard. Otherwise, like, you don't have those tools set up. You're just like, you're not doing what you can to set yourself up for success. And like one of the other things that like totally changed my business, like honestly, it was time to pet. They are like, they're amazing. The app is amazing. It's fantastic for my staff, because they have this schedule that they can just look at on their phone, and it tells them their entire itinerary for the day. And it just made things so much more automated, I wasn't able to do that before. So that was, that was great. And then yeah, they were awesome. And then the other thing that I use that's like more like science based, like ADHD focused is, there are two different methods for helping people complete tasks for ADHD. And one is the Pomodoro method, which is essentially this like, it's like based on like a tomato, like it's an Italian Pomodoro is a tomato. And it's this little tomato timer and you like set it for a certain amount of time. And then you give yourself like a smaller break of time. So you like work for an hour. And then you give yourself a 15 minute break. And then you work for an hour and you give yourself a 15 minute break. And that has helped. And then there's also this like, thing that I am like just starting to use called the Eisenhower matrix, which is this like grid of items prioritized by most important and urgent, important, non urgent, and then like non important, non urgent, etc, etc. And it just helps you figure out what are the most important things. And it's sort of these tools that a lot of medical professionals use to help ADHD people like they give them these skills, and they're like to utilize these, these templates to help yourself, get the things done that you need to get done during the day.
Collin 13:26
Because it's about that going, No I need I need something concrete before me if everything is just up here floating around in the ethereal realm, or whatever it is, it becomes really overwhelming of like, No, I then nothing gets done. And then I can just sit in and, and not do anything but having those methods of going. Okay. And it's like it is finding those things to externalize to yourself of going here is something that I can apply to my world of I know there's a bunch of stuff to get done. I mean, I was just in a visit today where it just seemed like everything kept spiraling of like, Oh, and there's a mess over there. Oh, and there's poop over. And I'm gonna do this, and this, and this. And it's just all of a sudden, everything was just number one priority. And I kind of froze for a minute where it was like what? And it was very, it would have been very easy to sit down and go, Well, I'm just gonna be overwhelmed right now and not move forward. Let's
Ilana E. 14:18
list out what you need to do as opposed to just like bouncing around.
Collin 14:23
Yes. Because Because then nothing gets done. If you're just going, I'm going to get to this, I'm going to flutter over here, I'm going to do this instead of going no, here's an order of operations for me. And that's, that's exactly what those two things are able to do for you especially with the because the Pomodoro method like that's a I'm gonna focus intentionally, but I know there's a break coming. And this is where I'm gonna work on nothing else in this time period. And then when that break, that's my refresh. That's I can go do other things. And I'm gonna come back to it. So it is kind of like compartmentalizing those focus periods. Yeah, like the
Ilana E. 14:56
Pomodoro melted like usually what happens with people with ADHD? Do we have this thing called like hyper focusing. And what we do is, and it's usually never, it is what it sounds like, you take something and you just focus on it so extremely, that you like cannot pull yourself out of that focus. And what the Pomodoro method does is, you know, you get into this like work around and you get hyper focused on whatever you're doing. And then you're able to pull out of it and do something that's gonna give you a like endorphin Boost, which is like this thing, like, people with ADHD are always looking for that like dopamine boost. And the Pomodoro method allows you to take that 15 minutes and do the thing that you want with that for that indoor for that dopamine boost. And then tells you to go back and do whatever the actual task is that you need to get done. Kind
Collin 15:55
of allows you allows you to hyper focus without hyper focusing for hours and hours and hours, right. Like that's, that's where that can become detrimental to getting things done of going, well, I'm going to look up and all of a sudden, I've done an extensive deep dive into 1980s Land Cruisers, and I have a whole report written out for it. And it's 20 pages long. Oh, but I didn't file my taxes today. It's like
Ilana E. 16:23
about how many times I like go on to like Facebook reels because I'm too old to do tech talk. And, and I've just like watching puppy videos for like three hours and I'm like, I should have like gone for a run or like I don't know, done some administrative work and yeah, so And
Collin 16:43
too often it gets labeled as as being distracted individual and can't focus. It's like no, let me tell you how much I can focus like I really can. I just need help directing it into the right paths and the right methods to have you heard of time to pet. Dan from raining cats and dogs has this to say
17:05
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Collin 17:26
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Ilana E. 17:35
Yeah, I mean, that's always the misconception with ADHD, it's like you're the wild child who gets distracted when like, the reality is, is you're spending six hours, like investigating, like Roman history, and like you can't pull yourself away from it. And you're not unintelligent, you're just focused on the wrong thing. And like, that's the thing is like, you just usually focus on what you're not supposed to focus on. Right? Yeah, well,
Collin 18:08
and so as far as you know, running, running a business to to talk to us about how where you are in being neurodivergent has actually has been been helpful has been a good fit for you. Yeah,
Ilana E. 18:21
um, so one of the things about working in office is that you're sitting all day, right. And something with ADHD is you just have a lot of energy, you have like, extra energy. So being out and on the move, and being on dog walks for 10 miles a day is a fantastic career choice for someone who has this like pent up extra energy that they need to like, let out. And then the other thing is, is that people with neuro divergence, in general, tend to be like very good and very inventive about problem solving. They think about things because our brains work differently. We kind of think about things in a different way than someone who's neurotypical. So we tend to, like, look at things from Yeah, we look at things from a different angle. And we're really creative too. It's funny, like, all of my staff members, and a lot of them do have learning disabilities or like are some kind of neurodivergent they all are like musicians, artists, actors, like they all have these like, creative outlets. And that like also allows for like creative thinking in the business. And they because of like the ways that they think they're able to sort of like, question how things are done in the business and like me to like I question like, the way that we do something, I'm like, Well, how can I do is better? Like, how can I make this easier for myself? Essentially, you know? Yeah. So and then I'd say like, the last thing about, like how being neurodivergent fits so well in this business is that people who are neurodiverse neurodivergent, especially people on the autism spectrum, tend to have a very hard time socializing. And being in a job where you're primarily working with dogs is really beneficial to people. It's like perfect for them. Yeah. So yeah,
Collin 20:35
we're getting recognizing that those admits those arguments strengths here. And like as your were your listing those down, I'm going, God that that's what it takes. That's a great business owner, right. Being creative. We talked about that. That's something that I never realized being a business owner actually was, was being a creative person. Because I always thought business was this old, stodgy suit and tie backrooms haram for a month kind of stuff. And instead going, No, I get to do something like beautiful and wonderful every day. And something that's never been done, right, like every day is just there's so many new things. And that can be overwhelming to a lot of people have the newness, the fast paced nature, the out of the box, thinking like that, instead of going, well. This is why a lot of people are drawn to this because all of a sudden, they're going that's exactly how my brains wired. That's how I live my life. Now I can really dive into this.
Ilana E. 21:29
This job is really, really great for someone who is not neurotypical, it really is. It's just like, it was like, I feel like I was made for this job seriously. Well, and so I
Collin 21:44
know, you talked about some of the tools and methods, you know, the the leaning on technology, finding those those tools in your in your day. What What about the business of a pet care business specifically maybe has been has been challenging for you and kind of what you've worked through.
Ilana E. 22:01
So one of my biggest things, there's this thing in ADHD, Apple, there's this thing called object permanence, which is essentially like you, things that are around you, you see, but if there's something that you can't see, your brain doesn't recognize it as actually being there. So like, say you put your shoes in the closet, and you forget where the shoes are, because the closet door is closed. So for me, I have, like, if there's a task that I have to do, unless that task is right in front of me, at that moment, I will forget to do it. It's just like, um, like a memory, like short term memory stuff is like difficult for some people with ADHD and like some or other neurodivergent sees. And so like, if I have a task, I have to do it right away, otherwise, it doesn't get done. So unlike that, sort of the part of like having the Google Assistant where it's like, it's a thing that I can do later. So that kind of solves part of that problem, but because of the like lack of object permanence, I am constantly jumping on every task that arrives, like in front of me, and a lot of the time it like it, like, intersects with my, like, personal life, and like my non work stuff. So like, you know, we're going out to dinner one night, but like a client text me about something, I have to do it like right away, and then it's, you know, it interrupts the dinner that I'm having with my husband kind of situation. And I'm trying to work on that, like, I'm putting my phone down, and trying to put my phone on silent, but it's like very, very hard as a small business early, we are always on the clock. And that's, that's always really hard. And then like the other thing, like I'd say, like the other problem, the other struggle that I have is, like being really impulsive. If an issue comes up with like a client, or a staff member, like something happens that I need to make, like a big decision on, I have this like, initial input impulse to like, make the decision right then and there without really sitting down and like thinking about it. So like what I do now, like, I've had to get to this point where I'm like, take a deep breath, sit back, physically list out all my options on a piece of paper, and then like, determine what the best options are. And then like, go to my husband and consult with him and be like, What do you think of this because like, I bounce my ideas off of somebody. And then like, come to the conclusion of like, what the best decision So before, you know impulsively saying something to a client or a staff member, so yeah, that's always a struggle
Collin 25:10
with those tasks, it is really easy to get sucked into those doing them immediately. Because if we no go, Okay, if I don't do this, it's going to it's going to disappear. But I'm kind of have that impulse to just do right now. That and especially if I know I, I will know exactly what I need to do at a client's house, only when I'm in the client's house, because I know that's because it's that context of like, it's really hard for me to know my tasks for Baxter when I'm not standing in Baxter's living room. So it's hard to articulate that. But so it kind of developing. And I had this from David Allen's getting things done, he talks about contexts of what where, where do you need to be to do certain tasks in the end, so going, I've got all these tasks, I need to break them out by relevance importance using the Eisenhower matrix, but I can also put them in context, or here's what I can do at my desk, here's what I can do on my phone, here's what I can do it, that kind of, of modality of where I am, there's me kind of dictates what I do, has been one way of, of kind of helping with a little bit of that, because I know, okay, I can go right to that list, I'm at my desk, I can do these five things, if I'm not at my desk, those things disappear from my life, and I'm not going to know that they exist until I sit back down at my desk,
Ilana E. 26:28
ya know. And like, we kind of like when we do visits or dogs in a dog walks, whatever we ask clients, especially with my staff members, we ask them to leave like very detailed instructions, as detailed as they can get, because the staff members, especially those on the autism spectrum, are really great at following directions, if they have them. Yeah. And so it's like having them printed, having them on the time to pet up is like, it's very important. So in the context of in this situation, in the context of that situation, they have the information that they need to ensure that they do the job the best way that they can, and
Collin 27:05
and the impulsivity to of wanting to solve issues to quickly right of going, I've even of going can manifest in and going well, I'm going to write I don't know, if you had this to a lot of going, I'm going to write one thing I'm going to send it I'm not going to give it a second glance, right, I'm not going to review it, why would I do that I just it's done. And now it needs to leave me. And that's instead like that, that is something again, of going, forcing myself to read it a couple times read it three, four times and other different contexts instead of just going writing it once and shipping it off. I get like that that has really hit me so many times over the past several years.
Ilana E. 27:43
And I feel like I like hate to say this, but chat GPT has like made writing those emails and messages so much easier. Like you can I have a tendency of being like very, I talked to my staff about this all the time, I have a tendency of being very direct on my messages and emails, and sometimes it doesn't always sound nice. So I always put my stuff into jet chat GPT and I say please make the sound more professional and nicer. And then it helps and like, it's like another tool that you can utilize, especially for someone with autism whose social skills might be slightly lacking. You have that ability to make things easier for you to interact with neurotypical people.
Collin 28:34
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Ilana E. 30:05
Um, so yeah, I think being generally supportive of your staff is really important. I think being honest with them is important, or being open and listening to them. I think those are like, very key things for any staff members. But I think particularly for people who are neurodivergent, I think they need to have like very direct information about how they are doing, how things are going with clients, how things are going with dogs, because I think it helps them. I think that business owners need to recognize that their staff were newer, who are neurodivergent, are going to have some harder days than other staff members who might be neurotypical, and that you just have to be patient. Europe, neurodivergent people are not unintelligent, and they should be set shown the same respect as people who are neurotypical. And I think that sometimes business owners, in general tend to not want to want to hire neurodivergent people, because of their like, you know, because of their lack of social skills, or because of their like, afraid of their inability to like, get along with clients. And I think that they're losing out really, I really do. I think there's like so many benefits to people who have a different way of thinking as part of your business, I think it's really helpful. Yeah, I think you just have to think about your staff differently if they are neurodivergent. Preparing them for success is like the most important thing if you're going to have if you want to have neuro, neuro divergent staff members, or if you already do.
Collin 32:01
So what does that look like setting them up for success?
Ilana E. 32:04
I think it's like a case by case thing. Like for me, I have several staff members who are on the autism spectrum. I have a staff member who is on the autism spectrum, and has dyslexia and bipolar disorder, and ADHD. And so I started have a, well, I just like, I try to do things that will help them like for example, I don't require my staff to wear a uniform. Because a lot of neurodivergent people have sensory issues. So like, I would prefer that they be comfortable and wear something that's comfortable for them while they're out. walking in the snow, the rain, the heat, then be like wearing a t shirt that has my logo on it. And see Rouse. Okay, so the other thing that I do that I did not learn until after I hired my first neurodivergent staff member who's on the autism spectrum was that I needed to, like, let clients know that a staff member was neurodivergent. We had like a situation where we did a client meeting and I was there and it was just very, very awkward. And the staff member left and he's like, I don't think that they liked me because of my autism. And I realized that I had to prep clients, especially in new clients, to let them know that like, hey, like, So and so is going to be doing your dog walks or your dog sitting but like just so you know, they are on the autism spectrum. They're fantastic pet service providers, but like, you just need to know that. So that like if you have a situation where like, you know, there's some kind of social awkwardness, lack of eye contact, like sometimes, like the staff member has like an inability to like assess social cues or like over shares information, the clients need to know that that's a possibility so they can be prepared for it. And I think that like kind of ties into the being honest, like being honest with the staff members and the staff met like I think that's it that ties into like, also like being honest with the clients about, like, neurodivergent staff members. Yeah,
Collin 34:30
it's going here. Here I am. I'm being supportive here. I need my staff member to be in the supportive understanding environment. And I'm the one that has that conversation. Right as is that that may be awkward the first time that we have it but when we realize what we're doing is we're being advocates for people like just going, here's this amazing person there. They're fantastic. They've all of our training, they're going to be the best thing. Here's something you need to know about them. So that if it comes was up, at least you know, and it also helps with education as well for that client helps reduce some more of those stigmas that they may have or biases that they may have from their own life or their own experiences, and puts this person in a place, put your put your staff member in a place where they're going to
Ilana E. 35:15
excel in that. And I think there really is a big stigma and hiring neurodivergent people, people who are neurodivergent have a very, very hard time getting through interview processes. And like even like functioning and like normal work environments, a few of my staff members have like, not been able to hold down jobs or have been really miserable, and the jobs that they were able to get because they just didn't feel supported in those in those jobs. And I think, yeah, you should be inclusive in who you hire.
Collin 35:52
And again, as you mentioned earlier, it's a case by case basis. So having that conversation with them doing some of our own research, learning what we can, you know, the things you said, like no uniforms, because they're gonna maybe maybe some sensory issues here. So that's something that, that it benefits everybody at the end of the day, because, you know, not everybody likes wearing a uniform. So it's, you know, but, but it's, it is finding those things and going, Okay, here's something this person needs, how can we make them successful in this? What can we do? What can I do as the business owner to make sure that they're able to do the job to the best of their ability at the end of the day? That's, that's what what all this is, is it going? They have? Need? i We can we can meet them in some way, and then let them fly?
Ilana E. 36:39
Yeah, on your percent, there's like, there's no reason why you as a business owner shouldn't be able to support your staff members on an individual basis.
Collin 36:50
And there's another topic around this as well. We've mentioned it earlier, you know, kind of some of your own struggles of overstimulation and kind of how things can walk up and come up throughout the day. How can we is as a business owner as as a as a friend of those situations, how can we help our staff who who handle overstimulation or meltdowns that they may have,
Ilana E. 37:12
and they happen? overstimulation and meltdown downs happen, especially with members of the staff who are on the autism spectrum. And usually what happens for me, like my plan of action is that my staff call me if they're having a hard day. Or if there's like something particular that sets them off, which happens, we talk it through, and I let them know that they're supported. And I asked them upfront, if there's anything that I can do to make their day or their life easier. And sometimes that means them asking for a personal day or two off. And if it's possible to get coverage, we do that. And then sometimes, like more casually, it just means that they need to take a break in between their dog walks or out throughout their day, grab a coffee, sit in the park, relax for a little bit, just have some like, quiet relaxation time. So they can like cool off. And usually that that helps. And then the other one, a few of the other things are in order to like not overwhelm them on a regular basis. I never give my staff work that they don't want. So like anytime that we get an intake form, and there's something that like, might fit into their like route or schedule. I asked them if they want the work, and like, hey, you know, do you think this could fit no pressure? If you don't want it? And if they say no, that's perfectly fine, because like to me, like, my staff are like, like they exist to like, make me money. And if they're not happy, there's like no purpose. Like, I have to make sure that my staff are happy. Because right. Like the profit isn't as important to me as making sure that they're happy in ways.
Collin 39:06
Yeah, yeah. Knowing that there's, there's somebody out there working for you, that's miserable, because be noise and noise sensitivity or a smell or light or something that day or, or whatever is going on, you know, it's going, okay, there's a miserable person out there who's really struggling right now. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that on them. So so that simple question of what can I do to make this easier? And it may be okay, this isn't the client that I'm not gonna put you on this client anymore. We have to be open to that possibility. And again, see how that's going to work out in our business.
Ilana E. 39:42
Yeah, and I think like another thing that helps a lot is like how regular our scheduling is, you know, I think he regularity of like our routes and stuff makes it easier so that they don't like sometimes change can be really hard. So having something that's like more like this Here's what my route is every day, Monday through Friday, that's also really helpful too. So, and
Collin 40:06
that's not to say that these decisions are easy to make at the business level, right? Like, like having somebody taking longer breaks means you can you can't fit in as many walks for that day, right? Is there are business implications of this? And that's, that's our job then to see how that is going to work out. So it's not, you know, it's going, Oh, just take longer breaks. Also, there are implications for that. But we have to decide, Is that worth it for to make this person happy? And to keep them working for me if they have if they take that, or is it not right, and that's, that is where the decision that we could face and I know, that's why a lot of business owners say it's not worth it for me to make these accommodations because I can't make as many walks and I can't be as productive and I can't do all this stuff. So it's a no for me instead, going, here's how I can make it work. And here's what it looks like. Yeah,
Ilana E. 40:54
you know, um, I think it's definitely like my personal decision to be able to run my business like this. Um, but I think that it's, I honestly think that it's worth it like I have, you know, I hear a lot of other pet sitters talk about like employee retention, they have a really hard time keeping their employees and most of my employees have been working with me, getting working with me, like 10 years, six years, seven years. And I think like, part of that is due, like extra support that I showed them. And keeping them making sure that they're happy and they're getting their needs met means that my business becomes successful. Yeah.
Collin 41:36
Right. Because you're taking care of a person at the end of the day, right? Like, that's, there's nothing more important in life than that is caring for those around us and making sure that they're treated well. And with fairness, like that's, I, you know, like, I don't know what else to say no to and for that. You've worked really hard and been focused on on yourself a lot through this, you know, of going, what's going to work for me, what's going to work for me, how do I make this work? You know, where, where do you go for, for information, or resources for learning.
Ilana E. 42:07
So in particular, I have like a YouTube YouTuber that I really liked.
Collin 42:15
I mentioned YouTube earlier. So
Ilana E. 42:17
there's this woman named Jessica cave, and she runs this YouTube website called How to ADHD. And it is really great for people with ADHD. And then people who are like, partners, parents, siblings, friends of people with ADHD, and she is like, very uplifting, super science based. And she just makes you feel really good about having a learning disability. And I just, I love watching her videos, and they're really great and educational. And that's like, like ADHD specific. Sure. Autism speaks.com is a really great resource for people to go if they have autism, or if they want to learn about it. And then there's this other website called neuro diversity hub.org They're amazing. It has a slew of articles and tips specifically for employers about hiring, maintaining and supporting your neurodivergent staff. It's really, really cool.
Collin 43:26
Yeah, no, I'm, I'm you, I'm gonna be doing a lot of digging on to that tonight. Because that's it again, it's, it's, there's so many it's the personal aspect of, you know, going recognizing, Okay, where am I? Like, how does my brain function? Let me let me be honest, they may take their own. So if my own barriers maybe that I've built up over time, they may have some insecurities about this and going what, how do I function? How do I need to work? Then going as a business owner? How can I help those around me? And, and recognizing that it's a long process to write it doesn't it doesn't have to end the things are changing all the time as new information or new methods or
Ilana E. 44:05
techniques? Yeah, no, I'm, you know, like I said earlier, like, I'm not a professional. And the resources are an amazing place to go to, like figure out where you stand as an employer of neurodivergent staff members. It's the it is always changing. We're like figuring new things out the brain is sort of like a final frontier of medical science. Like we still don't really know tons about the brain. A
Collin 44:33
lot of I can't tell you how thankful I am to have you come on and talk about this topic because it is one that kind of sits over in the shadows and or has these these barriers, these boundaries, these biases, these preconceived notions that we take through our life, right. It's as as we've been talking, you know, I've been thinking about past situations or past people I've had interactions with or school times where it was like, oh, like, I built up a lot of these negativities around them and and even towards my own self to have going, well, that's not quote unquote normal. That's not this, that's not that going. It's a conversation that we need to have more especially as employers as business owners to make sure that we are being being fair, inclusive and welcoming to all and, and include, you know, in this conversation to have going, we may have clients who are like this. And so interacting with a neurodivergent client is also different and different expectations and different ways of doing that, too.
Ilana E. 45:27
Yeah, we should try to make a point to learn about the different kinds of people that we're going to be interacting with in our business. Like you're not, you're not in a bubble. You're open when you own a business, a service based business, you're opening yourself up to all different kinds of people. So you need to be prepared for that.
Collin 45:45
I love it. I love thank you so much. And I really I'm gonna have well so how can people get in touch with you can follow along with you or pick your pick your brain on things, if they have specific questions,
Ilana E. 45:59
they can get in contact through our website, our my phone number and email address are listed on there. It's www dot Park Slope pups.com. Or via our Instagram, which is Park Slope pups.
Collin 46:12
Cool. Well, I have links to those and the resources that you've mentioned throughout in the show notes and on the website so people can get connected and start learning and diving into this really important topic. And I just, I just can't thank you enough for for coming on the show today. So thank you, Alana. neurodivergent, people just think differently, not defectively. I love this takeaway from my conversation with Alana, that in a world that is quick to label and dismiss people, we can be supportive, that we can equip and empower them. Whether it's something that we struggle with ourselves, or whether we are interacting with staff or clients who struggle in this area. The world is made a better place when we reach out in an inclusive and encouraging manner. We want to thank today's sponsors, time to pet and the peaceful pet music, calm music for pets YouTube channel. We also want to thank you so much for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and we'll be back again soon.
