587: The Changing Landscape of Pet Services with Carmen Rustenbeck
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How are mergers and acquisitions reshaping the pet care industry? In this episode, we welcome back Carmen Rustenbeck of IBPSA to discuss the rise of corporate buyouts, the impact on small pet businesses, and the challenges of maintaining a personal touch in an evolving market. They explore industry regulations, including Ollie’s Law in Massachusetts and the new Veterinary Professional Associate role in Colorado, and what they mean for pet professionals. Carmen also highlights the growing influence of Gen Z pet owners and their unique preferences, from pet insurance to reptile
Main topics:
Mergers and acquisitions in pet care – How big corporations are buying out independent businesses.
Impact of industry regulations – Discussing Ollie’s Law and the Veterinary Professional Associate role.
Trends among Gen Z pet owners – Increased interest in pet insurance, fresh food, and exotic pets.
Collaboration between pet businesses – Why pet sitters, boarding facilities, and veterinarians should work together.
Technology advancements in pet care – AI, software, and new pet care innovations shaping the industry.
Main Takeaway: “If we want to stay small business and keep the personal touch, we need to be proactive in collaborating and defining best practices before regulations force our hand.” – Carmen Rustenbeck
Mergers and acquisitions are reshaping pet sitting, dog walking, and boarding facilities as big corporations enter the space. What does this mean for small business owners? How can pet sitters stay competitive while maintaining a personal touch?
📢 Don’t wait for regulations to dictate your business—define best practices now! Listen today and future-proof your pet care company. 🎧🐾
About our guest:
Carmen Rustenbeck has been involved in non-profit work for over 20 years and active in the pet care industry since 2004. By creating and implementing a development plan that details how the organization gains members to create a powerful voice for the industry, and identifying areas of service never before provided to our industry, as Founder & Executive Director of IBPSA Carmen is committed to building a member-centered organization that promotes the best practices and strategies for helping our industry reach its full potential.
Links:
Previously on: https://www.petsitterconfessional.com/episodes/089-carmen-rustenbeck-with-ibpsa
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Pet services, regulations, Ollie's law, Colorado regulations, veterinary professional associates, mergers and acquisitions, small business, pet sitters, dog walkers, boarding facilities, pet insurance, Generation Z, technology, education, industry standards
SPEAKERS
Collin, Carmen
Collin 00:00
Music, welcome to pet sitter confessional, an open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter. Today, we're brought to you by our friends at time to pet and pet sitters International. The landscape of Pet Services is constantly changing, and this year, more than ever, how do we navigate things like changing regulations like Ollie's law and Colorado regulations around veterinary professional associates. What does it mean as new generations are becoming pet owners? How do we talk to them, market our businesses, and what's the impact of corporate buyouts on the pet industry? And how do we persist as small businesses? To answer these questions and many more, today, we're really excited to have Carmen roostenbeck from IB PSA on the show again, actually, to cover these topics. Carmen brings a lot of information, so I hope you have a pen and paper ready. Let's get started.
Carmen 00:57
Thanks, Collin. It is so much fun to be back with you guys after this hot minute, which has been, I think, a year or two. So ibpsa International boarding input Service Association, we've been working really hard at looking at what new legislation is coming into the industry and how we can advocate for the industry. Also, we've been developing new education programs. So we've been really, really busy. We've had some change in our board. We've had some change in staff. So that always makes things sort of fun when you have change in board and staff and you have different new ideas come in. So we've been working really, really hard to stay ahead of the business curve that we've seen just sort of happen in the last 12 to 24 months that we weren't expecting. So it's been a challenge, but we're having fun.
Collin 01:49
There's always something new, right? There's always something right to work on, always, always, well, so yeah, I want to dive right in there, Carmen and just kind of see, get your sense of what have you been seeing that has changed since we've last spoke, or some of the big things that you've seen going on?
Carmen 02:06
Yeah, so I think probably one of the biggest things that we are seeing is this, the M and A activity, so where we're acquiring small businesses and we're rolling them in with other organizations. So there's been a lot of buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, because there is a lot of cash out there that is looking for a place to land, and so we've had a lot of this buying and selling in our industry. So as that has happened, of course, that affects how many, really, what we call small business owners, how they see it, because now, well, this is good time for me to sell. I think I'm going to sell. And so they sell to whoever buy the big companies, whoever that m a company might be and at the for at first, it feels sort of good, and then they start to see the changes that happen to their facility, because now the personal touch maybe is not so personal touch anymore. So so you have that little piece at the same time with all of these buyouts, now we're starting to see the pendulum switch a little bit, because now they overbought and the economy didn't go as fast as they thought it would go the direction they thought. So we're starting to see some selling off from some of these M and A's because they've over purchased so now, so now we've had this really rush to buy for two years, three years, and now we're starting to see, oh, we've over purchased. Maybe we shouldn't have done that. And so we're starting to let go some of those facilities that we bought, so now they're coming back into the hands of the small business owner. That's
Collin 03:57
an interesting that you bring that up, because this has really been on my mind, really about the mergers and acquisitions as as as big money, these big investment firms start to, like, again, they're always looking for, where's the next growth going to happen? And and right in the industry have known, oh, the pet industry is going to going to grow, right? It's going to be, you know, half a billion dollars, you know, or whatever it is these, whatever the new estimate is. And so to know that like that, you're seeing this at that level, going no facilities, small, independently owned businesses are being being bought. And are you seeing that they are they are being approached for their business, or are they seeking by Okay, they're
Carmen 04:37
being approached. And we know this from the IB PSA point of view, because IB PSA members are highly educated and and they're thinking through their business plan and where they want to go. And so those M A companies are coming to us and saying, Can we advertise through you, or can, can we come to your conference? Or so they're they're actively pursuing those. Members who are active in their association industry. And so I know in the if I could step back for a moment and speak to the pet sitter world, we know that there are pet sitters that have grown their business significantly, where for them to be reaching toward a million or more is not out of out of perspective, out of the realm. So we don't see it so much in the pet sitter industry. But I would suggest to pet sitters that if you're growing your organization, or dog walkers, if you're growing your organization, especially in larger communities like New York, Chicago, Dallas, Fort Worth LA, where you have a lot of people in a very tight area and you're growing that business. Think about if you decided I want to buy the next person out, because I want to take over that. What would that look like for you, or for somebody to come to you and say, Collin, man, you've done a fantastic job in your area. We'd like to give you 2 million so we can take over that area and add it to what we're doing. So it's, it's sort of an interesting way to say, Wow, man, I could sort of start a new career, right? So, I mean, I mean, I realize that it's, it's sort of a new idea, but I would like really, as small business owners, because pet sitters, dog walkers, groomers, you are small business owners, is there a possibility that you could get big enough and strong enough that somebody would want to buy you out, and if so, what would that look like? And then, when you part with that company that you've built, that you've birthed, basically and built up, how is that going to feel to watch somebody else run it and do it differently, because it won't be your touch anymore, it'll be their touch on the company. What does that look like? And I don't think we're far off from the possibility in this industry of moving from buying and selling of doggy daycares to buying and selling of pet sitters and dog walkers groomers who have built a significant business in a specific area. Yeah,
Collin 07:15
I think right now, there are more large pet care companies than ever before. Like, we've like, there are some absolute behemoths out there, and the larger you get, the more attention you get from these kind of investors, because all of a sudden it becomes an idea of of scale. And if you've already built it, if you're already knocking out of the park, it does become easier for them to go, why don't you just come into our suite of brands? Right? We already have right, and now that that's just, you know, that's how those acquisitions go, and now you become part of that entity, yes, and the fact that you addressed both sides of those Carmen of going, Okay, that's a very exciting proposition. You worked really hard to get this point, and you get this offer. But on the backside, what does that change? And it does kind of change the feeling of the industry, I think, especially for the pet sitting and dog walking side. Yeah, so very much like a cottage industry for a lot longer than, I think, the boarding and daycare side, those true big, you know, facilities. There's a lot more franchises out there. There's a lot more chains and things like that. We don't really, I think we're just kind of getting into that to that side of thing right now, for the dog walking and pet saying. So this is all kind of new for us to experience from our end,
Carmen 08:26
yes, but I think that you guys have a significant margin that you didn't realize that you had. In fact, when I talked to the boarding industry, our our big competition is pet sitters. How many pet sitters are pulling away from boarding facilities, so it and and I understand that from a perspective of, I'm a business owner and I've got this fantastic pet sitter, and, man, they're just taking my clients. But I also like to approach it from a different point of view. What if I can collaborate with that pet sitter who's taking a lot of my clients? How can I bring that pet sitter into my fold to help me with clients whose pets don't do really well in a boarding facility. And so now we're referring because they have a pet that they you know, that pet would do really well in doggy daycare, and but they have a pet that would do really well with a pet sitter. So how do we start collaborating. Instead of saying, well, you're taking from me and and start collaborating in on that. And I think this is really important for pet sitting and dog walkers to really think about you're building your brand. So how do you collaborate with a boarding and daycare facility and build your brand together as a trusted advisor for your community? So, and I would say this with dog trainers and groomers, are you building your brand and are you collaborating with boarding facilities? I'm always talking to boarding facilities about collaborating with the veterinarians in their community. So as as a pet service industry, how do we all collaborate? This go 360 how do we collaborate all of that together for the betterment of the pets and the humans in our industry and their care, whether it's pet sitting, grooming, dog walking, boarding, daycare, veterinarian help. How do we do that together? Yeah,
Collin 10:16
it really is going to be increasingly important moving forward, especially as we look for ways to differentiate our business, you know, again, take this from both sides of of Is it a crowded market? How do I know? How do I develop basically, a little community around me? And do we really view ourselves as a as a hub that's connecting different spokes to people's needs and right? Are we all on the same page? And that takes our it takes it's on everybody, to be networking, to be talking, to be building that out, and it's not going to be the same for everybody. And that's that's fine, but who is your you know, it's kind of like, who is your go to recommendation, if something, if for your trainer, for your behaviorist, for your nutritionist, for your vet, for your groomer, for your boarding, for your daycare, who is your one go to that's all you need. We're not you don't need 15
Carmen 11:03
you just need a relationship that you can know and trust. So I think when we start looking at building it that way, then when, when we have these acquisitions that come knocking on our door, now we're thinking, Wait a minute, do I have somebody in my community that would rather have this business because they've been part of it right. So now we start thinking differently, even though the money's good, and maybe, maybe this is a sweet time to get out take, you know, take that acquisition and walk, but maybe we need to start thinking about it differently, because mergers and acquisitions happen in industries where there's a lot, if I can use the word division, yeah, where, yeah. Okay. So the more the more separated we are, the more divided we are, the more they want to come in, because it's easy to buy it and sell, build it to where you need it and sell it. So how do we as a community make ourselves less vulnerable to that, and not that it's a bad thing? Don't get me wrong, not that it's a bad thing, but how if we want to stay small business and we want it to have the touch of our family, how do we maintain that idea? It's very difficult to do with when you're merged or acquired by a larger company, even though you may keep all your staff there, they may keep your staff, it all changes. How it functions. It changes. And the other thing we're noticing is that once a boarding facility gets bought out, they're no longer part of the association, because the larger company doesn't see value in association. So it changes how even your people learn. Wow.
Collin 12:57
And that's that has some long term detrimental impacts. I could imagine, if you just think of people in the industry in kind of this larger fold, not having access to ongoing education and the professional development and these conferences and the changes there, because they're kind of locked away and then again, siloed, right? It's like, Nope, you're not connected to anything else. And so this idea of coming resilient to that, how do thinking from an industry perspective? And I love what you bring in here, Carmen, because you're thinking big industry wide, not just an individual business, but going from a resilient industry wide perspective, kind of becoming self, I don't know, like vertically integrated of Not, not that you're running a daycare, but who's your daycare that you can reference to, but maybe when they want to sell, they may talk to you about it, because you have such a good relationship. And likewise, if you have a really good relationship and you're looking to sell, you can or, you know, transition to another phase in your life. You have other connections to go to. Hey, is this something that you'd like to take over? And let's talk about what that would look
Carmen 13:57
like, right, right? Yeah. So I think it's sort of it's a real challenging in this market, but really back to where we were talking about this market. How big is the market? So one of the things that I thought was really interesting is a pelt health insurance to cover the rising costs is expected to show a compound annual growth rate, which is CAGR of 17.5% through 2030 so that's pet insurance. So now let's think about that. Who's getting pet insurance? Well, your clients, if you're a pet sitter, I'm sure your clients are getting pet insurance. Groomers, I'm sure your clients are getting pet insurance. Boarding daycare, they're getting because why? Because the cost to take your pet to the vet is increasing. So just the pet insurance alone, by 2030 is expected, just that piece is expected to rise to a ten billion market in 2030 that's just one little slice, right? So when we when. We start to look at how, how each little piece of our industry is growing into the billions, we can see why everybody's trying to jump in. Yeah. The question is, do we want everybody jumping in? Is that good for us or or negative for us and, and I don't know. Maybe it'll be years down the road before we really see the the good and the bad of of that that change for this time frame. But I think it's really, really challenging. And then I think the other thing that's going to be challenging to us in pet sitters, you should be those of you in Colorado, this is something to think about. So Colorado approved Proposition 129 in 2024 and it creates a new profession called the veterinary professional associate. So I was like the what, what is this? And how do I learn about this? So I do what I do, I get in and I start going down the path of research, research. So basically, the short version is, is that this position never, it doesn't, has, doesn't exist anywhere in the nation. And so it is sort of like our physician assistant is in the medical world. So maybe our doctor has a PA and we go see the physician assistant. Well, the physician assistant in the medical world for us, they have to have three years of graduate school and 2000 hours of hands on clinical practice. But Colorado, straight State University has proposed that this veterinarian assistant would only have to do three semesters of online classes and two semesters of clinical work. The law does say that they would not be able to prescribe medicine, because that's a federal law, but they would be able to do almost everything a veterinarian does, and that and the law does say that this VPA would have to be under a veterinarian, but they don't say whether that veterinarian has to be in same building and the same state, how they would have to be under a veterinarian. But I thought about this now. Here's the interesting part. I Let's say I'm a vet tech, and I've decided I want to go out and I and I want to add pet sitting to my repertoire. So I've done my certification with naps for my pet sitting piece. I'm already a vet tech, and I've got this naps piece. Now I'm in, I'm in Colorado, and this VPA position comes up and I'm like, I can do that three semesters of online class work, and I've already got two semesters of clinical work, at least, because I'm a vet tech. Now I'll be able to make sure that the pets that I have in my care are caught up in all their immunizations, because I can do it for them right there in their house, if if there's any medical things that I have capable of taking care of, I could do that as long as I'm under a veterinarian. So all of a sudden, the possibility, at least in the state of the Colorado, the possibility of of a pet sitter, a dog walker, a groomer or a vet tech. If they have the capacity to do three semesters of online classwork and two semesters of clinical work, you can add exponentially to your portfolio of what you can provide your clients, at least in the state of Colorado. Now, put that into a boarding and daycare where, often we have people that are not keeping up on their immunizations. Now you can solve that problem right in your boarding and daycare well,
Collin 18:49
and as a marketing advantage too, you know, to have one of those people on staff like that look at like, what the kind of care that people are looking for, for their pets, if you can, you know, we know some that have, you know a vet on call, right? Or they have a partnership with a veterinary. But to say, oh, no, here's this new kind of position that we have in house. It really does strengthen your offering that you're able to give to your client, right? Have you heard of time to pet? Susan the pet gal, has this to say, time
Susan M. 19:23
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Collin 19:39
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Carmen 19:51
absolutely, absolutely so. Again, it just passed in 2024 there was a lot of veterinarians schools and. And that were against it, boards, organizations came out against it. The dumb friends League and several animal welfare organizations pushed forward, and it did pass. It was like 54 52.8 to 47.2% so it was more than 50% wanted to have this idea of EPA. I thought that was sort of an interesting legislative piece to come out that I wasn't even following. I was like, Oh, my word. Who knew?
Collin 20:33
Well, that does get to again this, you know, the larger you get, the more attention you get, yes, from even the capital and the investment, but also from legislation and from regulations too, and and that's something that we talk a lot about from from our perspective as dog walkers and pet sitters of like, this is almost a completely unregulated industry. So I was, I was curious, from what you're seeing, how are or what kind of regulations are you seeing that come up that are impacting businesses and how they're able to run
Carmen 21:01
well, I think probably the most significant one outside of this VPA is Ollie's law. That's happened in Massachusetts. I have been privileged to be for a couple years in on Ollie's law, what that would look like, and how that would come how that would be put into place, how that would play out. And so last week, I was asked to serve on the committee in Massachusetts for now that the law has passed. Okay, great. How do we implement what does that look like, and how will that affect boarding and daycare and other in the industry who feel that it would affect them, such as, Are you breeder? Are you a breeder? Will this law affect you? And if so, what will that look like? So the committee has not even met yet, so we're at the very the laws passed, but we're at the these very first stages of, Okay, what does it mean now for the committee of how we're going to talk about how this law works. Are we requiring certification? Where would would that certification come from? Are we going to build a certification program? Are we going to look at other certifications that are out there and incorporate those? So there's a whole lot of conversation that needs to go on. But I think that's probably a very significant passing Ollie's law, because I do believe that the goal is to make it a template for, if we do it well, for legislation that could be a template for other states on how we could have regulation that would not be too onerous onboarding a daycare, readers, rumors and others. And
Collin 22:45
again, this was born out of the the little Labradoodle who was who suffered some severe injuries while boarding. And this, this set up this, as you said, this kind of oversight to start instituting or recommending some more safety and some more guidelines for how the licensing would work.
Carmen 23:05
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And if you notice, except for the state of Colorado, which has had regulation for boarding and daycare for decades, that came out of an agreement with legislators and American boarding kennel Association when they were still in business. So that that legislation has been there for decades. But when we start looking at legislation across the United States, most of the time, the legislation is written and passed, and it's in response to some tragedy California legislation was passed when a dog's tail got cut off, and legislation was passed when a facility caught on fire. So we have, we have these, you know, backlash type legislation, not legislation that is really well thought out. So the Polly's law was a step in the way of, let's talk about it in a reasonable manner. Let's really think about and consider our businesses, the people are running those businesses, and how this law could affect them as business owners, as well as how much money is it going to cost them to meet the requirement. So I think we have a real challenge before us with Ali's law of how we make that we make that successful as a law. That's what I'm hoping for being on the committee, is that I can advocate for my industry and say, okay, you know, it's not that I'm anti regulation, but I don't want regulation that we cannot meet at any level. I don't care how small the business is or how large it is. I want it to be equal and that everybody can meet the legislation, and it doesn't become a challenge where you can't stay in business, or it's unreasonable in its expectations. Well, because
Collin 24:47
some regulations do get passed, in that sense, is almost a pulling up the ladder behind you as you go of so onerous that nobody below of you know, $2 million can actually impact the. With the policies and the staffing and all in the whatever that would be. And so I don't envy you and your position, Carmen, but, but I know it is, it is obviously one of those things where, at the end of the day, you know, everybody has the safety and in the best interest of the pets and the owners, that's where we all want. But there does become tension of, how do you then implement that? And that's something that I know that the the pet saying and dog walking industry has been continually faced with is the news, you know, pops up of pet sitter does this, dog walker does this, this, unless the person does this, this. And it's just, it's kind of reaching this point where something feels like it's going to happen at any moment. And to know that, that that that in those instances, that kind of issue said that reactionary, that that knee jerk reaction, kind of regulation that really does kind of put us in a really bad spot. So to have an opportunity to get ahead of that, to have those voices at the table for Ollie's law, at least, is really a good sign that some sensible heads are out there. Yeah, absolutely,
Carmen 26:04
absolutely. So when I So, when I think about these next, these, these regulations, and how it's going to affect the industry, I also think about other things that would affect boarding, daycare and pet sitters that we have not yet really seen a push in in our industry. So there's this report that came out by Nielsen, and Nielsen report, and they were, they were looking at next generations of how next generations were, what kind of pets were they getting involved in. And I thought this was really sort of interesting, that generation Z or Z, they are. Their preferences are way beyond whatever we thought. They are, beyond dogs and cats. They are into their focal point is birds, fish and reptiles. That is what generation Zed is getting into. So if you start thinking as a pet sitter or a boarding facility, how am I going to board Avians for the pet sitters? Okay, I've got to walk into somebody's house and I've got to, I've got to take care of these birds, or I've got to take care of a fish tank, or I've got pick your favorite reptile. I don't know, you know, but if this is what generation Zed is interested in, and that's what's growing in their industry, are we educated on on the care of those and are we prepared as a boarding a daycare to even hire a pet sitter to go take care of that fish tank, or hire a pet sitter to go take care of that reptile. Or maybe we have capacity to bring that reptile in, or bring that avian in. How does that change? How does that change our space at a boarding and daycare facility? What kind of education do we have to have in that and then for the pet sitter, it's now you have to learn how to take care of a new species, because that's the next generation.
Collin 28:07
Yeah, well, and that kind of looking ahead is really important, just from a business owner perspective, because we can get so nose down, focused on what we're doing day to day, that when we forget to look up, we can kind of go, oh, wait, what happened to all of my clients, right? Or what happened? That's weird. And it's kind of only in retrospect where we tend to go, Oh, that's weird. I had 10 calls this week to for, for, for lizards, right? Kind of odd. Let me Right, right? And it is yet another reminder of the importance of, you know, tracking those intake calls of going, Who is calling you and what are they asking for? Because you might not be able to meet their needs now, but if you start getting those calls all the time, that should be a really strong, strong, strong, sorry, strong signal to us to then go, maybe I need to re look at this and try and figure out, should I move in this direction?
Carmen 29:01
Right? And I think it's really important, if you have a relationship with a retailer in an area that you know is carrying like snakes and spiders and whatever hamsters, whatever it is that you're talking to them, are you seeing sales go up, and then make sure that you're building a relationship with them, that I have the capacity as a pet center to take care of that, or I have the capacity as a boarding facility to bring these species into my facility and really talk about that with those retailers, because that's where we're seeing these trigger points. We're not seeing it and that they're asking for care. Yet, where we're seeing is that retailers are reporting that sales of these different species are increasing so and the food for these different species is increasing. So that's our that's our moment to say, wait a minute, if they're buying and they're bringing it home, eventually they're going to need some kind of care. And are we prepared? Yeah. To bring that on, which is very different than traditionally, which was traditionally dogs, and then we added felines, and now we're adding all these other species. And so we really need to stay tuned to that. And then when, when we're talking about marketing, the other thing that came out of this report is that 56% of Gen Z watch YouTube streaming. That's where they're getting their marketing from. So that's really important. If you're a pet sitter, do you have a small website, and do you have a YouTube channel where you're putting that out and you're talking about what you're doing, the education you have funny stories. You know, are you? Are you YouTube streaming, making yourself interesting, so that you're grabbing that next generation of of clients?
Collin 30:49
You know, you were talking about those specialty stores, and you just reminded me, I have a to do list. There's a store near us that sells birds that they specifically focus on, parrots and cockatiels and things like that. I'm making a note to go back and talk with them, because, you know, I kind of like to go back. It is again, this, this importance of networking, and the onus is on us, and that way, right? We can, yeah, it's one thing. I think that what I'm, you know, it's great reminder. It's one thing to get on and read Industry Reports. It's another to go into our local market and talk to other local business owners. They just ask, how is it going? Right? And, and, yeah, you know, whenever that person kind of wipes their brow and they go, Oh my gosh, it's been insane. I've sold so many birds this past week, or I've sold so many, you know, lizards, or I've said it's, or I can't keep tarantulas in stock. They're flying off. It's, it's, it's like, okay, now I need to start developing this relationship. And just saying there is a resource, and you mentioned that even with the YouTube aspect of going, I just want to be a resource and an educational connection to here. So then I have to go then and get my education, get connected to, you know, an organization or whatever, and go and learn this stuff, right? And even just talking with those local specialty shop owners and get learning from them, because that way they know that you know your stuff because they taught it to you, right? Because it's another good relationship to have.
Carmen 32:09
Yes, yeah, it's, it's, it's sort of, it's sort of challenging, I think because I was reading, well actually, I was listening to a class last year, and it wasn't even in our industry. The lady was talking about business and how we used to have a five to seven to 10 year business plan, and now she's talking she said at the time, which was in 2023 businesses were having to re market themselves every three years. So every three years, you are building who you are all over again. You're sort of like rebranding refreshing, not to hold but you know, you're just making yourself something new. And she said that she felt within the next three to five years that we would be down to almost twice a year, refreshing ourselves, reaching out, because the world around us is moving at that high speed. So how will you as a business owner, keeping up on the changes that are happening in your environment, in your local community and industry wide, and so I think that's a real challenge when you're building relationships, whether it's whether it's you going to the local avian store, or if it's me going to my local store where I'm buying my dog food from, or it's me going to my boarding and daycare facility, or if it's me going to the groomer, what kind of relationships am I building just because of the industry that I serve, but am I encouraging them to build relationships? Because the market is changing so fast, and our consumers are consuming information in a different way than they have before, and so am I ahead of that game? You know, that's a challenge. Yeah.
Collin 33:59
Well, and what are their expectations? What are they actively looking for in a care provider? And I think that loops right back into what we started this with, is that this discussion of regulations right as as as clients become more and more educated. They follow these kind of laws, these rules, these regulations, and they start looking for that are this is this business abiding by that they know what's out there and what they actually want. And so it is beholden on us to, obviously, advocate for good regulation and good things, and yes, abide by it, and then follow that and push others to do that as well. Because that's how we start getting, you know, kind of all on the same page with these things. Yeah,
Carmen 34:40
absolutely, absolutely. And I think it's really important for pet sitters, and I've come across this a lot in this past year, is that there's a lot of pet sitting happening, and in their community, if it's not done a certain way, they get themselves in trouble. So I think it's really imperative for pet sitters. Specifically, if you're going to bring a pet into your home that you understand, as opposed to going to somebody's home and taking her, but you're going to bring a pet into your home to understand your city, your county and any state regulations, and be sure. I mean, I've seen here's one little city, and you can do it, but you cross the street and you're in another city and they won't let you, so you can't just assume that, oh, I can do this. Really understand the laws and make sure that you're abiding by them, because you then you'll get yourself in trouble. And, and, and I've come across this a lot in the state of Texas recently, so Well, I
Collin 35:39
know there's still some confusion in our industry is getting what, what it means to even get a business license, because they go, oh, there's no license to be a pet sitter, so I don't need to do anything. It's like, well, no, but you need a license to operate as a business because you are right. And then if you do, because this is another thing of when people look to add revenue streams, or they do this process that we've just discussed of going, Wow, everybody's asking me for boarding. Oh, I'll just bring the dogs to my home. I can offer boarding. Let me just do that, and without then looking into going, what are the legalities around this? What are the actual You're right? Then it just takes one neighbor to all of a sudden file a complaint or a noise thing,
Carmen 36:18
and it's done. Yep, yep. That's all it takes. And and then also, when we think about pet sitting, I know this is a little bit, this is we've we've moved beyond it now. But remember when the dog flu, the new version of the dog flu, came out, and we did not realize that I could run up up against a dog and that I picked that up, and then I go to the next place and I pet that dog. I've just passed on that dog flu. We did not have that understanding. So also, when you decide that you're going to be in the business, you even though you may not be boarding a daycare, you still need to know what the vaccination records of those pets that you're caring for are so that you protect yourself and your other clients as you're going from house to house, or if you do have to bring a dog into your home or a cat into your home, that you are protecting your own pets. So it's really important even though you are pet sitting, I think there's a lot of things that you still have to check off. They're the same as boarding and daycare facilities need to check off. And I think sometimes we forget about that.
Collin 37:24
No, we do. I hear a lot of people who go, well, because I'm not bringing two dogs from different families together. I don't even need to know the vaccination status and and I think we do ourselves a big disservice about that, because, you know, we, as our company, so we we've taken care of plenty of immunocompromised dogs, and they just they cannot have some of the vaccinations, but we know that, and so we know this is a higher risk animal, and so we have to do our due diligence and be hyper aware of the status of every other dog that we're taking care of, because otherwise we can really impact that dog and that family. And if they yes, they're looking for safety, they're looking for security. And if we don't have that knowledge, at least it really, really hurts everybody involved.
Carmen 38:08
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. So I think that when we look at the industry, of course, we know we have this buying and selling, and we see that there's all this legislation coming out, and I think consistently, what we need to do, as we've been discussing, is we need to make sure we're educating ourselves properly, that we understand what the laws in our community are currently and that we're abiding by those but also I think that we need to start looking at industry wide what is best practices? And why do we call that a best practice? Not, not because we want to. Well, I do it this way, so that's the best practice. But no, what are best practices? Right? Right? Because the practice can be done across the industry, and so it's a best practice, and it keeps the pets safe in our care. So I think we need to start talking when we're talking to our clients, when we're marketing, when we're talking to others in our industry, or we're crossing over to the retail or boarding, or whoever we're talking within our industry that we're also talking about, what we're doing is best practices and asking them, what do you do for best practice in this fill in the blank, you know, so that we are using the language that we want the consumers to catch on to. And again, we're setting the standard for the consumer. We want to become the trusted advisor to our clients. So how are we going to do that? We're going to set the standard. So as a community of pet care service providers, no matter where you're doing that, are you setting the standard of best. Practice, and are you the trusted advisor? And are you communicating that to your fellow community providers? Words
Collin 40:09
are really important, and I have had, I've struggled so much, right? I've been with the with just the language of what to call, even some services sometimes, and to realize that at the end of the day, like you can have all of these letters after your name and all these certifications and all these years of experience, but if the client doesn't understand that, it's kind of meaningless at that point. And so we it again. There's a there's a lot that rides on our shoulders, it turns out. But as an industry, when we're all working on this, it helps propel the messaging a much, much faster. Because if they're hearing the same term from their groomer and from their trainer and from the boarding and from the pet sitter and from the vet and like, all of a sudden they go, Oh, I get it. Now. I understand with that, because everybody kind of is on the same page. And it's not like a, you know, smokey back room collusion thing. It's everybody coming together and just having a conversation and going, you use that term? Great. I use that term, right? It's just, hey, talk to people. Operating a professional pet sitting or dog walking business can be rewarding and profitable, but it can also be challenging and even lonely. That's why pet sitters International is committed to giving you access to the credentials continuing education and community you need to succeed, from a new toolkit and training each month to an On Demand Learning Library to their private member Facebook group and annual conferences. Psi members benefit are designed to help you live your best life as a pet sitter. Visit pet sit.com/join, to learn more, and use the promo code confessional 15 at checkout to save $15 off your first
Carmen 41:52
year. Right, right? And I think, and I think you're right. I think it does help us when, when we start to, when we start to use the same terms, and we start to show our professionalism in the industry, that we really are up in how we're talking Okay, we're not just we're not just sitting here using words, but we're actually doing that. We're demonstrating that. And so now when we come up across what we're going to call the hobbyist to no offense to anybody who's using rover.com and you're a professional, and you're licensed to be, but if you're just, you know, here's Carmen, and she's, she's got an extra room in her house, so she decided she's going to turn that room into her boarding facility, and she's gone to rover.com and She is nothing behind her name, no training. She doesn't even have pet CPR in first aid. I mean, she's got nothing. I think now we start to set ourselves apart from this level of I just I can do it because I got extra time. And I think that's really what we need to be focused on. Because if there is a threat to our industry, to all of us, it's those who are providing services, and they have no idea what they're doing. If something happened with the pet, they would have no idea how to, how to how to take care of the pet. They would have no idea of how to do the CPR and First Aid. They they wouldn't understand why they needed to have the vaccination records. There would just be no understanding of that. So I think it's really a body language, okay, I've got a group of dogs I'm at a dog park body language. How many consumers actually understand body language when they take their dog to a dog park? And those are the people that are just like, oh, I can do this for extra money. So I think we really, really need to to really talk about our education, what we're doing, how we do it, and we use that same language with our peers and with our consumers, and that will set us apart from this threat that's coming from people who just want to do it because they've got time and they want to build a little extra money, but it's not a profession for them,
Collin 44:07
right? And you know, there will always be a sliver of the consumer who who is looking for just the bare bones, cheap option. They don't really, absolutely always be that. But you also have, and you, you led with this, this statistic of this increase of expenditure on pet insurance, that that doesn't come from uneducated, unpassionate, you know, price sensitive consumers. And so if we're seeing this trend towards purchasing of this kind of quality and this kind of item, this, this shows, at least in this one little sliver. And I know that this is also backed up by the kind of products that are being purchased at stores, the kind of experiences that people want for their pets, and the upgrades that they provide, you know, at doggy daycares and, you know, you can, you can get all sorts of add on packages and stuff, and people clamor for those. So if we have that, we also know that people are wanting the. Best. And so it we as an industry get to define what is best and what does that mean. So that when people go looking for that, because you can go right now, I can Google right now, best dog walker near me doesn't really mean anything a whole lot in a lot
Carmen 45:14
of right you know, it may be that that person had 10 people, and they loved that person. And so those 10 people, you know, said it, and the guy who's doing 1000s, he's not getting any comments at all. So it really is, yeah, it's really imperative that, that we really set aside what we do also, you know, in that same study, they were talking about this generation said that also they don't mind spending money on quality dog food, and so they're looking for human grade dog food and even fresh dog food. So that money there, it's not a problem for them. So we don't even in this next generation coming up. They're not so the reason we're seeing this push, let me back up from it, the reason we see them in in pets, the way they are is because they're waiting longer to get married and or have children, and some of them have chosen not to have children because it's actually cheaper to have a pet and spend all that money on a pet than it is to bring a child into the world. Education is over $300,000 and that's just to get them once you get to college. Forget all. We haven't even talked about how much money to raise them before we spend the $300,000 on their education. So it's actually cheaper to have a pet and it and so and they're they're pushing to not have children, or waiting later in their life to do that. So this pet idea is becoming stronger in this generation Zed, and so it creates a lot of interesting futures for us in the pet care service industry. What is that going to look like? Yeah,
Collin 46:50
yeah. And that takes, that does take working together and having these kind of conversations, right? Absolutely, it's, it's a little terrifying, right? Because it is kind of a little open ended box there, but it also is, should be encouraging to us. I feel like, is that going, Hey, we can, we can set that standard and define it too, right,
Carmen 47:07
right? And I think probably we have, we have, sort of, as an industry, have stepped back from some of these things. We're like, Oh no, that won't happen. That won't happen. And one of the things I think, that we thought wouldn't happen was that the regulation would never really quite make it while we were still doing so like, you know, I've been in this industry for 30 years, and I've heard regulations come, and it hasn't come for the last 30 years. I just don't see it happening. And so I think that the things that we have traditionally seen or traditionally believed about our industry, all of that, we have set all of that aside, we need to rethink our industry, where it's going what's going to be required of us, how fast information is getting out, and how fast the consumer can find information, very quickly, and how AI is changing the landscape for us as pet care service providers, the software that we use, how we market, All of that is changing our our future, and is changing it quicker than we could realize. And so we are in a very intense learning curve, I think, in our industry, as we try to quickly make changes that we need to make to stay ahead of the next guy, and we still have a lot of people coming in and building beautiful facilities, so there's still a lot of area for other people to come in. I wanted to go back to that original document where I was talking about the M and A, the mergers and acquisitions so private equity firms, they call it the unprecedented war chest of $2 trillion yeah, that's the amount of money that's out there for investment in our industry, in some way, shape or form, specifically M and A but in some way shape or form, that's a lot of money to be invested in our industry if we wanted to tap into some of that. So I think it's just, it's just such an interesting time to be in the industry, because there's so many possibilities. I mean, we have aI that's using new technology with you can have a little raise a laser thing. You could play with your cat or your dog when you're not home. You can, you know, send messages to your cat or your dog. You have AI technology robots that roll around to keep your your animal interested. I mean, there's just all these, these very unique. Things that are happening, not to mention how AI is affecting our software as a service. So whatever software you're using to book clients their information, how you collect that information? How easy that technology is to use? Can I use it on my cell phone? Is it really intuitive? Because that's the other thing we're seeing in these younger generations, is, man, they don't want to they'll make me figure it out. Make it intuitive for me, make it easy for me to find what I want, click and pay. And this is sort of off subject, but at the church I attend, we had a business meeting this last week, and one individual. I was shocked. It was a high school teacher said, so do you have it yet, where we can pay, where we don't have to use our cards, but we can use our My mind just went blank, use, use your money from the computer,
Collin 50:58
like Apple Pay, or that kind of stuff, too, or pay, yeah, okay,
Carmen 51:02
yeah. So can you do it that way? And so it was like, Well, yes. And then it was like, Well, what about Bitcoin? Can I pay with Bitcoin? And I was like, Oh, my word. You know, I never even thought about that. Now, this isn't church, but I was like, that's an interesting idea. Could I as a client call my boarding facility and say, Hey, Joy, can I pay with Bitcoin for my next service? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But if we are moving to a society where we don't want to have to have a credit card, we don't want to have cash, and we're going into this whole Bitcoin thing, would it? What would that look like if now we started saying we'll take payments with Bitcoin?
Collin 51:45
Well, you know, I did have this question for you, of like, because you mentioned the businesses who had been in business for 30 years or more, yes, and with all the changes that are going on now, like, what is it really like to start a new business in 2025 because you're making my head spin, just realizing of every year, you know, every business that starts has brand new challenges to it, and some of them, they're the same, like some of them, but like the new world that these are being thrust into. So, you know, from your perspective and from your members kind of, what are you seeing like, either like challenges for a new business, or, I guess maybe even opportunities too.
Carmen 52:20
I think probably one of the opportunities, which could also be a challenge. I have a new boarding and daycare that is building in Asheville, North Carolina, and when I go look at their plan for what they're putting in, they're putting in privacy fencing that has a wind rating, that has a noise cancelation rating. So the wind rating is 135 130 miles per hour. The noise cancelation is up to 98% of sound pollution. It has UV inhibitors, and it keeps its colors even in temperatures as low as 40 degrees below zero and up to 140 degrees. Now I'm thinking, Okay, that's a wide range. Man, it, it, it can. It's durable and resistant to potential inflicted damage, like dirt, graffiti or stains. It lasts a lifetime. It's environmentally friendly. And then they're using the power Lou a flushing dog toilet equal equal friendly. It has no more plastic bags. You take the poop, you throw it into the power loo, and you flush it. It goes into the system. Now this is for dog boarding a daycare center. And so I'm thinking about has only uses 1.6 gallons of water to propel the waste into the system, the sewer system. I'm thinking about what they're building their buildings out of all of this new, new green technology that we're using. So the learning curve, I think when you're coming into the street, especially if you're building from scratch, a boarding a daycare facility, is what is the learning curve on understanding how all the new products work together, how that you can build a boarding facility That decreases your cost to maintain and doesn't add carbons to the environment, you know? So all the things that you're thinking about as just getting that done, and then how you're financing it, and when you now, you're you're trying to get it open in a certain amount of time. How are you doing that training before you open the door, so you don't open the doors, and you're trying to do training with brand new employees. So how are you going to get that done ahead of time, your risk management, safety plan, depending on where you are on the United States. How are you doing that? Now, it's not that this hasn't been going on before, but I think technology has. Now moved so quickly and so fast that the learning curve on just products that are available today may change because there may be a better product tomorrow. So you're in the middle of your building and you find a better product. Can you switch for the better product? You know? You know. So I just think, you know, there's just so many new things out there, just in the building process, and then the dollars, especially in during this time of inflation. And let's say you started and you were going to build, and then inflation hits, and now it's harder. It's the money that you need. It's becoming more expensive. So does that cause you to have to change plans on your building? How? How is the person navigating that? I think it's this is a really, could be challenging time to come into the industry when, when we're having so many different things happen, high inflation, and now we may have some tariff issues. So there may be product that you want to bring in that's produced outside, so the cost of that may be at the time that you ordered that product. Now a tariff charge is going to happen. Increase the cost of that product to you, even products that we're using in every day, boarding a daycare. Where is that product coming from? How is tariffs affecting? Maybe you're the end user, but there's things that are happening to that product to get to you that tariffs are causing a problem, or the cost of transportation is causing a problem for you, increasing your prices. So I think that there's some real financial considerations right now in the industry. And we had coming off of 2020 2021 2022 man, we shot it out of the park. 2023 it was like a really great so we were making Wow. 2024 is going to be like brilliant. And then it flatlined. It's not that we didn't grow it's just that we had prepared for something much larger than we actually got. And so there was pulling back in the industry in 2024 and in 2025 we're, like, nervously putting our toe in the water, because what's going to happen next? Because the environment's not what we expected.
Collin 57:18
Yeah, and that, you know, I just going back to just the fence alone. When we talk about the advancement of technology, it's not just computers and AI and that kind of stuff. It's it's the technology that went into the development of a fence that can handle that kind of range of temperatures, and also sounds it's like, what? And so you come in and you just either that simple question of just like, oh, I need a fence. And it's like, well, what do you want your fence to do for you? And it's like, years ago, it was keep the dogs in and now it's, oh, well, we can dampen noise. We can, you know, do this. It will stand a hurricane. It's like, wow. It's just, that's just one example that you brought up there. And then to know that my little small business here is more globally connected than ever. Is more senseless to the global network of business and trade than ever before, and how we have to have some pulse and idea of that, constantly checking those prices, constantly in contact with our supplier, seeing what's going on there, and looking at alternatives to substitute in when and if we need to. So the complexity of the business, where it used to just be, well, I only have what's down at the store. Maybe have a specialty catalog now I can order from Amazon, and now it's the possibilities are literally endless of where you can get things and what you're bringing in, and that we're just right, that more global connection, I think, is something that Megan, I even just in our little dog walking and pet sitting world of just how sensitive we are to that alone, because it impacts our clients too, and that it's more the when we talk about our local community, our local economic you know, anything that gets just a little bit bigger, the more connected everything else is, yeah,
Carmen 59:01
absolutely, absolutely, yeah. I think, I think that we do not realize how global we are connected until we start to have to go shop for something. And I think for pet sitters and dog walkers, if you're in a community where you're walking to all your clients, that's one thing, but if you're a community where you're driving so for my boarding and daycare facility. They also do pet city, and they also do transportation, where they'll go get the pet and bring it back. Well, when the gas prices go through the roof, of course, now they're saying, Okay, how do we do this more efficiently? Well, you know? So now they're looking for different traffic routes. They're like the UPS, man, can I get there and do nothing but right hand turns the whole time, you know. Or do I have to go to the light, stop and make a left hand turn, you know, so they're starting to map out, you know, where they're going, and then do I need to, do I need to size down that? Or do I need to stop it for a while? Because the cost of providing that service is just. So my clients are not going to pay for it, you know. So I think that's that's a real challenge when we start to see how, how outside pressures cause us to change our services and what we're offering. And I think also we come into the idea we're going to offer certain level of services, we're going to offer services, and then maybe a vertical that we're offering is not doing very well. And so sometimes it's hard for people to say, Okay, I'm just going to drop that service and move and move on. I'm not going to fuss about we try to nurture that service. And sometimes I think it's really hard for us to say, You know what? That's not working. So let's stop that, and let's focus what is working and not try to save this little thing over here that I thought was really important for my business. I I've
Collin 1:00:47
learned of something that's called the IKEA effect of people take more pride and ownership in the things that they've built than the things that they didn't. And I think as a business owner, I am so sensitive to this because, yeah, we should. It's not that we shouldn't take pride and ownership in the things that we built, but some we built, but sometimes the thing that we build, it might not be the best, and yet I cling to it because I'm the one who built it, and it's really hard to say, no, no, that IKEA furniture that's not going to be a family heirloom in 100 years. We just need to be perfectly honest, like it's okay. It served a purpose. We learned we can let it go. And the same thing with our services and our own business of going just because I built it built, it doesn't mean that it's going to be it was built originally to last 100 years. Now I can make it last by learning, changing and adapting, growing and swapping out parts, and I do have to let go of some things sometimes, because it's not taking off, it's just not worth my time and expense. Clients aren't interested. In it. I have, I have need to drop something for that reason. And we do struggle with that. I know just it's been really hard for Megan and I to go, No, I need to cleave this off. Because it's like, Oh, my baby, why? Why would I do that? But it's like, right, we're saving the ship. We got to let this
Carmen 1:01:59
go. Right, right, yeah, it's really hard as an association, we suffered from the same thing. I mean, this week we've been talking about, we know that generation Z is going to be having these other pets. So we have built certification programs for avian, small mammal, exotics, hamsters, rabbits. I mean, we built education for each of these species. And we even went to the California reptile industry, and I think it was the California Association for reptiles, and they built us education for the top 10 reptiles in the United States. So we paid for it, but we never implemented it, because we're like, oh, this is never going to happen. But now that we're seeing this generation Z thing, where it could be an important education piece in the industry, so we're pulling it off the shelf at the same time, certification programs that we've offered in the way we've offered them, basically canine and feline. We're looking at that, you know, we're like, okay, you know what? I think the way we offer that does not meet the way our learners are learning. So how are we going to dust this off and and change this so now it meets the new learner idea of how we learn, so which is very, very different from the way I learned. So take, sometimes it's even taking whatever vertical product, whatever service you're offering, and thinking about it in a different way, saying, Okay, how, how do I refresh this and make it valuable to my my consumer in today's market? It worked great five years ago, but maybe I need to rethink that for this next generation. Yeah,
Collin 1:03:46
and it's everything from from how we're educating them to you mentioned it earlier, how they're booking right? I know many people, I mean, I myself like I'm a very desktop first person. If I have serious work to do, I'm busting out the laptop. I've got a second screen, right? But I know that's not how most people do anything anymore. And so when we're like, when we're thinking even through, like, what our website looks like, or what's the workflow, where's the button placement, it's like, well, here, I've got a nice, big, beautiful screen here. Look. It's 40 inches and it's like, no Collin, no, no, that's nobody's looking at this on a 40 inch screen. Beat stopping,
Carmen 1:04:22
right? No, it is really true. So I think, again, I think we're living in a very exciting time in our industry. We have so many new things coming in, whether it's technology wise, whether it's how we feed pets, whether it's how the collars, even collars and halters that we're using, they're changing some of those, making them more user friendly for our clients, for us, for the pets, how we keep our pets healthy products that we use? I mean, at first, we always said, oh, you can't use essential oils that. All now we have in a whole essential oil veterinarian program that are teaching consumers how to use essential oils with their pets and do that wisely and safely. So we understand that now, massage therapy can be different. We understand that having water for the dogs to play in could be healthy. We're even understanding that cat daycare can be healthy for cats in our care. So we there's just so much that we're learning about the animals. We're always learning something new about. They're much smarter than we ever thought, and obviously they're much smarter than us because they've been waiting around for generations for us to catch up, but, but there's just everything, everything that touches us as pet care service providers or our businesses or the buildings or the cars we drive or the clothes we wear. There is so much tech out there that is being incorporated into all of that that is making us a more green and Universal Community, that we cannot afford to sit back and not be trying to learn something new every day, and talk to our clients about what we're learning, And then listen to our clients about what they need and what they're learning. And then once that communication starts span, we can then we really get the fire address to know what our next step is going to be as a pet care service provider, what do we have to do to help our clients, and what kind of education do we need? And I encourage all of you to look at other industries for inspiration of things that are happening in under industries, because usually, if it's happening in another industry, you're going to see something similar to that in the industry you're in. So don't just pay attention to what's happening here in the pet care service world, but let's look at what's happening in the HVAC world. Let's look what's happening in construction. Let's look what's happening with our pet food. Are we really excited about the fact that we now have pet food that's insect based? I don't know. I'm not really a fan, but hey, maybe that is the new thing. I don't know. What about those supplements? You know how you know all, all of this, all of this affects the pets in our care, and the more knowledgeable we are about it, all, the better pet care service providers we become.
Collin 1:07:36
Carmen, I really want to thank you for coming on the show today and encouraging us to get connected with our network, building out that community and educating ourselves for the better care of the pets and the support of the people behind that. It's a there's a lot of work to always be done, but it should be encouraging us that we can provide a better level of care tomorrow than we can today through our hard work. I know that this is obviously a really big topic, and you have a whole organization dedicated to helping people be educated and supporting in this. So Carmen, if people are interested in learning more about ibpsa and getting in contact, how best can they do that?
Carmen 1:08:12
So just reach out to carmen@ibpsa.com or you can visit our website@www.ibpsa.com
Collin 1:08:22
you awesome. Well, I will have those links in the show notes and on the website so people can start doing that. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. This has been so much fun. I really appreciate your time. Thank you, Collin, I've enjoyed this. How do we stay ahead of the curb by making sure that we are the ones that are collaborating and that we are the ones that are defining Best Practices before regulations force our hand. The more proactive that we can be as an industry, the better off everybody is going to be. We want to thank today's sponsors. Time to pet and pet sitters international for making today's show possible. And we really want to thank you so much for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week, and we'll be back again soon. You.
