078- Keeping Kids Safe Around Dogs with Alicia Obando
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Summary:
Alicia Obando, owner of Pitter Patter Parenting, joins us to share her mission to keep dogs and kids safe together. Whether it’s a brand new puppy meeting a baby, or a pet sitter bringing their kids to a drop-in, we all have a role to play in keeping kids safe and the dogs happy.
Topics on this episode:
Her mission for families
Getting a dog right after having a baby
Role of pet sitters
Keeping our kids safe as pet sitters
Most common concerns/problems from families
Her curriculum
Age appropriante things to teach kids
Grief counseling
Recommended resources
Main take away? It’s up to us to help educate our clients, and ourselves, on the best ways to keep kids safe around dogs.
About our guest:
In 1989, I received my masters in Counseling Psychology with a concentration in Children and Adolescents and practiced as a child and family therapist for seven years. I left the field to go work in politics for 11 years, hoping to bring about positive change for families and communities. During this time I had begun volunteering at an animal shelter and became very involved in Chicago's animal welfare community. I left politics in 2007 to follow my passion for helping animals. I worked at Chicago's oldest and largest animal shelter for 2 years and at the largest Chicago Veterinary ER and Specialty Center for 5 years. I also ran a Kids Block Club during this time for 5 years. I have participated in hundreds of hours of pet care education including an 8 week course called Behavior Fundamentals, which teaches you about canine behavior and communication. In 2012, I founded the non-profit, Pets Are Like Family. It was an all volunteer run organization that helped pet parents with limited resources take care of their pets. As the head of this organization, I educated pet parents one on one, in a classroom setting and at community events. Over the years, I have counseled hundreds of families regarding child care and pet care. In 2015 I created the company, Pitter Patter Parenting, to bring together my love of working with families and pets. My mission is to help families manage their pets in a way that encourages safe and healthy relationships for everyone in the family.
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
dog, pet, people, kids, baby, family, home, teaching, professionals, child, class, behavior, resources, parents, called, dog trainer, clients, safe, important, helping
SPEAKERS
Collin, Alicia
00:17
I'm Collin and I'm Meghan. And this is
00:20
Pet Sitter Confessional, an open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter
Collin 00:24
brought to you by time to pet. Hello, everybody and welcome back. Introducing kids to pets and pets to kids is a very tricky topic and one that pet sitters actually find ourselves in quite frequently, whether we have kids of our own that we take to mean greets and do walks and drop ins with or we interact with clients who have kids, as well as pets. how we handle these conversations, how we handle these sort of introductions and interactions need to be done in the utmost safe and professional manner today. Alicia Obando owner of pitter patter parenting joins us to discuss permission to keep kids and pet safe at all times and how pet sitters can play a major role. Let's dive right in.
Alicia 01:14
I'm the owner of a company called pitter patter parenting. And I live in Chicago, Illinois, with a dog and cat. And I work with families who have
Collin 01:27
How did pitter patter parenting get started?
Alicia 01:30
Well, I used to be I started off as a child and family therapist and have worked in different capacities with families for a while. And then I was working with pets in the animal welfare arena, in an animal shelter and a veterinary hospital. And I started a nonprofit. Gosh, I don't know 10 years ago now. called pets are like family which was kind of the beginning of pitter patter parenting, because it was my attempt to put working with families and working with pets together. So putting both of my passions together, and that nonprofit was to help families with limited resources, take care of their pets. And I really enjoyed doing that and wanted to somehow turn that into a career. So I actually closed down the nonprofit and started pitter patter parenting as a business to help families manage their pets in a way that keeps everybody safe.
Collin 02:35
I really like your background that you have there. How do you think having a background in counseling and psychology shaped how you look at pets and kids and family?
Alicia 02:48
Well, working as a child and family therapist, for many years really made me learn about family dynamics, and how individuals behavior affects everyone else in the family. And to really kind of learn the systems that are in place in each family that leads to positive outcomes, but also to some of the dysfunctions. And you know, to really see the vulnerabilities in all of us, and that we're all just doing the best we can with the resources we have at the time. Sometimes, unfortunately, I find that some people who work with pets get so focused on the pet and don't see the you know, what the whole family is going through and can often be maybe judgmental about the family and how they are caring for their pet. But we really need to understand and empathize with everyone in the family, and to just assume best intentions. And a lot of times you know, we do better when we know better. Part of my job is to help families learn best practices for pet care and also for pet and Child interactions.
Collin 04:02
Yeah, a lot of people say, Oh, my pet is a part of the family. But, you know, the way you're phrasing a lot of this stuff is there is so much involved in that one statement of if you truly believe that, and they actually are, there's a lot of these dynamics that are going on is as one person is changing, or their behavior is one thing that's having these broad effects on everyone around them. And if you're not aware of that, or know what to look for, you know, you can wind up 510 years down the road with some serious problems and kind of probably not know how you ended up there.
Alicia 04:38
Gary, right. And uh, you know, one of the main issues that I deal with that is such a huge one incident that affects the whole family is the birth of a baby. You know, and how that changes everything. Especially if it's the first one, the first child that changes everything for the dog, and obviously for the humans in the family as well. So yeah, so kind of learning about how it's all interconnected everyone in the family, and how everyone therefore has to be working together to be part of the solution.
Collin 05:13
Why do you think that that mission of educating and helping families and with kids and pets work together and have healthy relationships? Why is that so important these days? Is that a new phenomenon? Are we becoming more aware of the effects that that's adding?
Alicia 05:31
Well, I think that dogs are much more a part of the family have been they used to be at least 20 people, you know, self identify that way on surveys and stuff that they do consider their pet a part of the family. That wasn't always the case. A lot of times, that's lived more outdoors, and, and now they're eating in our kitchens are sleeping in our beds. They're riding with us in the car. They're going to parties with us, you know, we're entertaining together. And, and so I think that because of that, it has increased people's desire to learn more about that do better by them. But it also means that they're in closer proximity to the people in the family. And so this has increased the need for behavior management, we suddenly have to teach our dogs, what the rules are inside of our homes. These are not things that the dog knows automatically, you know, when they're chewing on your shoe. They don't know they're doing something bad. They're doing a natural behavior that's completely appropriate for a dog. It's just not appropriate for us in our homes. So we have to teach them what these new rules are, that are, you know, appropriate for humans and not necessarily for dogs. So I think there's just a lot of bad a lot of teaching them how to live in a human world, much more so now. And you know, when we have kids involved, you know, there's just a lot more that you have to be aware of, so that everyone stay safe.
Collin 07:16
And you kind of touched on this as that. It's both teaching and educating the dog, the pet, as well as the owners, the human people as part of the family. So in thinking of those two contexts, what kind of services do you provide to a family who seeking help?
Alicia 07:35
My services are basically under three pillars. I provide pet care, education and support. So the pet care portion is what led me to you and your lovely podcast because I do dog walking, vacation pet care and I bought small dogs in my home and pet education. part is the classes that I teach, I take classes to children and to expected parents on dog baby. I also do private consoles in families homes. And those usually fall under two categories, either it's a family that's going to have a baby. So it's the expected parents, but they're doing it one on one instead of in a class. Or it's, I hope a lot of families integrated into the home. And I always tell people, I'm not a dog trainer. And if I feel that, that, you know, they're going to need a private dog trainer, I have my list of referrals for them, but I help people get started on the right foot. And a big part of what I do in all of my classes are foster education in general, is helping people learn how to prevent problems, how to be prepared. So often people just wait for their for something to happen and then try to rush around oh my gosh, how do I fix it? So helping families learn from the get go? When they first get their dog, what kind of supplies do they need? How should they set up their home? How do you potty train? Or what about the importance of free training? And then how to get the right professionals in their life? How to select a good vet, a good dog trainer, a groomer? You know, what kind of questions should you be asking what kind of certifications you'd be looking for all that kind of stuff. And then the pet support the third pillar, I have been certified as a net loss counselor. So I offer pet loss support people who are grieving the loss of their pet.
Collin 09:33
Wow, that's quite a lot that you have going on. That's, that's really cool. And what I love there is that central to that is you're really acting kind of as this mediator to families and other resources that are out there that can be so daunting to somebody who has no idea where to start. What terms are what you know, as you mentioned, certifications are all of this stuff. that's out there. They're, for you to be able to come alongside them and say, Look, I'm not an expert in these things, but I can point you to some people who are or I can give these resources to you. I think that's, that's really cool. And it's such an important factor that I think kind of get lost a lot of times it as a as a pet sitter, or as a dog walker, those kind of things if we can really act as such a resource to get people connected to other things that they might not even know to think about.
Alicia 10:27
Right? I mean, not everybody has the time or for that matter, the desire to become, you know, professional to be knowledgeable in all things. Um, and you know, that's what we're there for is to help them with their pets and I see myself as kind of being the one person who provides you know what they need from the second they get their pet until their pet crosses the Rainbow Bridge. I want to be the person who is able to help them through all of their their challenges and You know, being able to refer them to quality professionals is so important. Because as you know, there are so many unqualified folks out there. Because there really isn't the industry, I don't think has caught up yet with the demand for high quality professionals. Anybody can hang out a shingle and call themselves a dog trainer. So how does somebody know how to pick a good one versus one who's maybe not as experienced as they could be? And the same thing with veterinary hospitals, you know, how do they know what which hospital stands above the rest and there are certain ways to easily do that by knowing what certifications to look for and things like that. So I do think that that just being able to have me as their go to person has been helpful for a lot of my family's and it's interesting how it starts in one place. And then suddenly, I you know, I'm doing all these Other things for them, when all they started off meeting was, you know, dog walking or or they've came to one of my daughter's baby classes. And suddenly I'm walking their dog on boarding their dog, I'm helping them find a new bed. So it really feels good to know that if they have a pet care question, they know that they can ask me and if I don't know the answer, I will find the person that does.
Collin 12:21
That's just really cool. I love hearing you talk about that. And yeah, I think that is it can be very challenging and it is very hard but to know that, you know, your clients and the people out there look to you as a as a dependable resource, someone they can trust and will be open and honest with him about stuff, but that's huge.
Alicia 12:40
Yeah, and I think for any healthcare professional, like you said, you know, being knowledge about those things, so you can tell your clients that makes your service so much more valuable, and that really makes you stand apart from perhaps the other dog walking service in town.
Collin 12:57
You mentioned this earlier and I want to go back and touch on On this as part of your your services that you provide, a lot of times you're dealing with a family who has a new baby. And a lot of times people want to bring on a new dog or cat right with that newborn baby. That's really common. How can people help make that process go smoother?
Alicia 13:18
Well, I would suggest not to do it. Having a baby is a full time job, as you know. And if you don't already have a pet, before the baby arrives, it's I think best to wait until the home calm downs a bit calms down a bit and everybody gets a handle on, you know, what needs to be done to do what you need to do for your baby. Especially because a dog needs a lot of training. it be a little bit different for cat. But a dog really needs a lot of training and so it wouldn't be fair to the baby or to the dog, because you're not going to be able to give either one of them all the attention that would be required for appropriate care. So I would definitely suggest waiting to not get a puppy at a baby at the same time. That sounds like a nightmare.
Collin 14:10
Yeah, it can be very tempting though. And like I said, we know, we know people personally that have done that. And yeah, you know, my wife and I barely survived having two young ones and those first few months where it was just like, I don't know what's up or what's down. I can't imagine having a puppy as well. We're having to do all this additional training and potty training and getting them used to a system when there is no system in the house when the baby is so little. It's the whole world becomes up to Derby at that at that point.
Alicia 14:39
And it's really not fair to that puppy. Because you're not going to be giving that puppy the the attention that it needs and then you're going to have problems. Because everyone always thinks everything's gonna be just fine. Oh, it'll work out. And then six months later, you have a dog that's doing everything and still peeing in the house. You know, God forbid, nipping at the baby. So that's not the time to seek training, you got to start from the very beginning.
Collin 15:07
Now what my wife and I actually did was we we had a, an kind of an older dog beforehand he was, he was eight at the time as an eight year old oxen. And we were bringing a newborn baby into that. And so I'm interested in kind of this difference between bringing a child into a home with established pets, versus bringing a pet into a home with an established family already existing kind of comparing and contrast some of those differences.
Alicia 15:37
Well, I think the way that you did it is the most common way because people do often use a dog is like their starter child. A couple gets together, they get a dog, and then couple years go by and they decide it's time to have a baby. So that's usually how it goes. Although every once in a while, you know, there are parents out there who just aren't People never had a dog never wanted to have a dog. But then their kids start begging for one. And then that's when you get a dog after the kids. And you know, either way, you're going to have management and training issues to deal with, for the pet, and for the kids. And it can really work. Either way. It's really all about doing due diligence to be prepared beforehand. So selecting the pet that is right for your home, if you already have kids, a lot of people select the pet based on this. Not necessarily whether it's a good lifestyle match, which is so important. So you know, how do you select the path. And then when you do have the pet, have you done preparation with your kids ahead of time, you know, this is what it's going to entail, to take care of a pet. And I always tell parents, if you don't want to Dog, if you're not going to be taking care of them, then don't get one. Because the kids will promise till the cows come home that they're going to take care of everything, but they're not, you're going to be responsible as the adult. So you have to be prepared to be the one who takes them out when nobody else wants to and all that kind of stuff. So having those conversations with your kids about realistic expectations, levels of responsibility, and, and also safety concerns, and one of the classes I teach. It's called I love dogs, that actually teaches kids about pet care. And I always recommend that class for families who are thinking about getting a dog and, and or just just got one. A lot of kids who come are actually just gifted or begging for one. And so the parents are like, Okay, let's go to this class. And so in the class they practice on a walk a dog on a leash, I use my little Yorkie mix as a demo dog with all his classes. They walk around the leash, they learn how to pick up a horse. It's fake, but they picked up. They do treat they groom her,
18:10
they
Alicia 18:12
feed her in a bowl. So they do all the kinds of stuff that you would have to do if you're going to get a pet. And we talk a lot about all the responsibilities and which kinds of dogs they like and don't like and therefore you know, what might be a good fit for them. So those are all the kinds of things that I would do ahead of time to be properly prepared. If you're bringing the dog in after you've already had kids. If you already have the dog, and a baby is coming, then it's all about preparing the dog but also preparing the space. And what is huge about that is there are so many changes that are coming. The actual baby coming into the house. It is all the equipment that makes noises and lights up and is in debt makes the arrangement of the house different because the dog bed used to be there. But now the dog beds been moved because the you know the baby seat is going to be there. And so there's so many changes that are happening that the dog has no idea about scheduling is another one. Maybe mom is always the one who gets up every morning and walks the dog. Once the baby comes, suddenly the dogs going to go to the doggy daycare or we're going to have a dog walker. And so all these changes are very confusing for the dog. And so being prepared by putting the systems in place before the baby comes, rearranging furniture, turning on the equipment, taking your dog for a walk with the empty stroller. getting them used to the changes over time will make that baby coming home not be as stressful. So again, it's all about proper preparations for yourself for your phone. And for the two and four legged critters. Yeah.
Collin 20:04
Yeah, you know, you mentioned the other kind of kind of preparing the way for bringing a baby home with a with a dog that's there. And you mentioned those stuff. And I, I'm thinking back to all the stuff that we were trying to do with our dog at the time. And it was it was it was one part necessity of getting all of the stuff out to when when the baby arrived, but it was also this. Okay, yeah, this is where the stroller is going to be stored. And this is where the crib is going to be. And just getting the dog used to that space. And I don't know, I don't know if this helped at all, but one of our friends had told us to play crying baby sounds it to see how the dog reacted.
Alicia 20:44
Yeah, yeah. To do.
Collin 20:46
Okay. Okay, so we were kind of on track with that, and he wasn't bothered by that at all. But, so that was at least Good to know. But yeah, there are just these these things of there's a new person in the space and you can do a lot prep work to help ease the anxieties of the dog beforehand instead of just showing up with a brand new baby and putting it all out there one time.
Alicia 21:09
Right, right. And even just getting dog things, taking care of getting them that appointment and all the shots done. You don't want to have to do that a month after the baby's born because you forgot that those vaccines were about to expire. Getting stocked up on all the meds and the food and getting a bunch of songs stuffed with the things that you throw in the freezer. So you have something to give the dog when suddenly your hands are full with the baby and your dog is looking for attention. So just a lot of preparation stuff that we both quit my job.
Collin 21:40
Yeah, I know that that's good, because whenever you're bringing home a baby, typically you'll stockpile pre made meals for the rest of the family. But But why not go ahead and stockpile pre made treats and stuffed cogs for the dog I had never thought about I really liked that idea
Alicia 21:56
and not rushing the introductions is another big one that I think parents aren't always aware of the dog does not have to love the baby and be giving it kisses, you know, at the beginning, you know, that first week, it's really so crucial for the parent and baby bonding. And it's okay if the baby doesn't, you know, get to meet or the dog doesn't get to meet the baby right away. You know, take it at your own speed. He doesn't have to be face to face. I mean, he could just sniff his foot, maybe on day two or whatever, you know, speed works for what's going on in your home. But just to give yourself permission to you know, not have them be you know, mad.
Collin 22:43
Yeah, you can, you know, you can get on Instagram, Facebook and go online and see all those cute adorable pictures of the brand new, you know, the newborn baby snuggling up with the lab or whatever and, and you may you know, that just pulls at your heartstrings strings to want that so bad but as you mentioned that That takes time. And that might not happen for a while. And to not force that and kind of be okay. With, with there being distance times.
Alicia 23:09
Yes. And many of us who work in pain and behavior, cringe at so many of those photos that people post online. Because you can see in the face of the dog that they're not comfortable. One thing is hugging and kissing. That is not normal for dogs. That's not how they greet each other. And it's very typical for, you know, people, especially kids to want to squeeze a cute dog that is just asking for a bite in the face for so many dogs and kids. And so just, you know, it's not worth it to have that adorable picture to put your dog and your child at risk. And even if there's no bite because you have a wonderfully tolerant dog. Just because they're tolerating It doesn't mean they're in Enjoy it. And we need to be really respectful of what their needs are. Yeah,
Collin 24:04
absolutely. On that note, as pet sitters we interact a lot with families and their pets. Most of the time we're there when the families not. But we are there on occasion when the family is there with the pet, whether to drop off stuff or just to ask further questions or clarification. What are some warning signs that we can be watchful of in the family dynamic that may have some safety implications down the road? And how how can we best bring that to the family's attention?
Alicia 24:34
Well, I think the most important thing for all of us pet care professionals or pet parents need to learn is how to understand canine and feline communication. Luckily, now we live in the age where there are so many wonderful resources online. You can find YouTube videos about canine communication. There's online classes take but just knowing what are the stress signals A dog is showing you to let you know that they're uncomfortable. That is so key I would, you know, anybody who walks dogs should definitely know these things, you know, just some of the general and some people call them displacement behaviors, bombing signals, stress signals, they have different names. But basically it's the way the dog is telling you that they're not comfortable. And, you know, that can be you know, the placement of the ears being down, the mouth being closed, when I'm talking to kids and families about dogs that are appropriate and not appropriate to approach. A happy dog is going to be very elusive legally, a dog that is very stiff, that is staring or looking away because there's a difference between them being, you know, overly aroused, and, you know, there's always the fight or flight sort of thing. You know, a dog that is leaning forward mounts. Type staring. That's a dog that I would be nervous around. But also on the other side of the spectrum, the fearful dog, which is usually the main reason that dog bites is out of fear. And that's, you know, the dog that perhaps slinked away, looks away, His ears are down his heels, all those sorts of things. So you want to be able as a pet parent or theft professional, look at how the animal is talking. In one of the organizations that I got information from to teach the kids class, they talk about the IRS sales, all the way to the one end of the body to the other, you're looking at everything in their body language, the mouth, the eyes, the ears, is the hair standing up on the back of their neck, what's the placement of their tail, so it's really important to know what you're looking at, so that you can prevent a problem by either removing the Often the uncomfortable situation, or removing whatever is making the dog uncomfortable, whether it's a child or you know, whatever it is. So those are the things that I would say everybody needs to be looking out for, to prevent problems.
Collin 27:18
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Alicia 27:23
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Collin 27:39
If you are looking for new pet sitting software for your business, give time to pet a try. As a listener of pet sitter confessional, you'll get 50% off your first three months when you sign up at time to pet.com slash confessional. So what are some of the most common problems or concerns CERN's that you see with families that have both kids and pets?
Alicia 28:04
Well, I think, as I mentioned earlier, the most common problem I see is the assumption that there is no problem. Um, you know, just not at all, and also calling you in, if there's been a bite or growl or there's some concern between the dog and the child and pulling you in to basically pick the dog and not realize that perhaps, you know, it's because of what's being done to the dog or what's happening around the dog. I'm not looking at their own behavior. For instance, one of my clients told me and I originally met them about two years ago, because the dog had a toddler three times already. And I get there and the toddlers being, you know, the usual one and a half, two year old little boy, he's bouncing all over the place but he is not at all respecting the dog's boundaries. He's jumping on the dog. And this is a little Frenchie, so it's not even big dogs. At one point, you know how friendships don't really have to fail. A little boy like to stick his finger, where does it belong if it's on your end, and you know, and the parents said, Oh, he loves to do that. We don't know why love to do that. And realizing that that's not okay.
29:30
No wonder your dogs
Alicia 29:35
don't just things like that where parents and dog owners, whether they have kids or not, you know, there's a problem with their dog. They want you to fix the dog, and just really realizing, okay, what do I need to be doing differently to help solve this problem? Because perhaps, you know, I'm contributing to this problem. And a lot of times again, it's not that simple. are, you know, doing malicious things on purpose? They just don't necessarily know what's appropriate, what's not appropriate? You know? And so it's our job to to just help provide resources. And, you know, you said how do you talk to families? On the obviously, you have to be diplomatic about things. You know, the old saying, people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care. So developing that relationship with them, so they feel comfortable talking to you is important. And I think a big part of developing that relationship is always trying to provide assistance to them, how can I help you with this? As opposed to you know, when you shouldn't be doing that, or you know, saying things that are going to shut people down, because they're feeling judged, and not keeping them open to your ideas.
Collin 30:57
So in your courses, and when you're doing these counseling or consulting sessions, how much do you find yourself teaching the person versus teaching the patch as far as like, ratios go?
Alicia 31:08
Well, when it comes to my classes, for the kids or for the expectant parents, it's 100%. teaching the people that get started even in class. And when I'm doing the private consultations in the home is, gosh, probably 80 to 90%. I'm teaching the people because, again, I'm not there to train the dog. I'm there to teach the people what they can be doing to help their dogs succeed, and to help them live harmoniously in their home based on human rules, and what the connections are between the people's behavior and the animal's behavior. And then just some basic foundational things such as how dogs learn. You know, a lot of times people will ask bribe complex emotions to a dog that a dog is feeling he didn't, you know, peel that rug because he knows that your favorite mug and he's mad at you, you know? You hear people say a lot of that kind of stuff. So it's just kind of helping them know a little bit about canine behavior and communication and what realistic expectations are and what their role is, as parents in making that happen.
Collin 32:26
Do people ever say no, it's you need to fix the dog. It's not me, I'm I'm doing this 100% right. It's just this dogs. It's a being a jerk or it's, I can't train this one. Do you ever get that kind of feedback or pushback whenever you're working with people?
Alicia 32:41
Sure. Um, I can think of one couple in particular, they were actually adopting a baby but the baby was due to arrive in like a month or so. And they had a very young and rambunctious doodle. It was a golden doodle. And I mean, the second Can I walk in the door, the dog is all over me. Very nice dog, but just very rambunctious, not the kind of dog you want, you know, jumping up on you when you're holding a brand new baby or knocking over a toddler. And so the mom to be was very interested and, you know, hiring me to come out there and do some of these sessions with them and talk to them about what they need doing to prepare the dog. And the husband was more dismissive of everything I was saying. So again, not so much that that you need to train my dog, you need to do something to my dog, but we're fine. You know, it'll be fine. The dog will be fine. He's, he's nice. He likes kids. He sees kids on walks, it's fine. I'm just not really thinking that it's a big deal or that they Maybe don't know everything. And perhaps someone else might be able to help them. So that's a little frustrating. And usually I require both parents or adults in the home to be present. Because again, with any teaching of fish or dogs, you want everybody to be on the same page. You want all the adults to be consistent in what the rules are. Yeah, but in that situation, when I found out that the husband wasn't going to be home for the second session, I was like, okay, maybe we can get some more. That was very receptive.
Collin 34:42
Yeah. And that can be really hard whenever you're trying to be consistent across the board and one person is ready to get going to the other person is, doesn't think it's important, you know, that can really send some mixed signals and can make progress slow to happen. Overtime if both people aren't investing in it,
Alicia 35:03
exactly. And I mean, anybody who parents kids knows that, you know, and I often talk to my parents, the ones who have kids, because I also work with families who don't have kids. But the ones who have kids, you know, they get it when you talk about some of these training techniques, or, you know, just the way behavior works, how animals learn. It's so similar to how we work with our children when it comes to, you know, a reinforcement consistency. You know, if mom is the one who says yes, and dad's The one who always says no, the kids learn to know which parent to go to. And the dogs do the same, you know, they behave in front of mom, but not in front of dad or vice versa, because they know who yells them it doesn't. So yeah, it's really important for people to be consistent with each other, but also just with the rules, because if, when you're in a good mood, it's open. Pay for bite or to be on the couch. But if you're in a bad mood, you it's not okay. Well, the dog doesn't know that there is nuances to the rules.
Collin 36:09
And that's really hard is is something that you mentioned sometimes you've had a really long day and work was terrible and you get home and you can snap and lash out at everything around you and the kids and dogs are sitting there going I don't know where this is coming from wires wires. Why, you know, why is the punishment so severe right now when yesterday This was perfectly fine. So that can really get that's very hard at a personal level is to maintain consistency across feelings and emotions and great versus crummy days.
Alicia 36:44
Right? And at least with our kids, especially as they get older, we can verbalize to them. I'm so sorry. I snapped at you honey daddy's had a bad day at work, and they'll have some understanding of that. We can't even do that with our dog. So if you've been Work confusing for them.
Collin 37:01
You've mentioned your courses a couple times. And you talked about one the I love dogs. Talk more about those. I find those fascinating and really cool.
Alicia 37:12
Yeah, sure. I have a couple of different classes I do for kids. Basically, there's three of them. I teach a dog safety class for preschoolers called I speak doggie. And that's a curriculum that was developed by an organization called the family dog. And it's basically a music video about kind of when it's appropriate and not appropriate to pet dogs and how to pet dogs. And so the kids learn to sing the song. It's very cute. And it's a, you know, an easy way for kids to learn. And then the last for dog safety for elementary age kids is called eat a tree. And that was developed by an organization called dog on safe and that one goes a little bit deeper into canine communication. So that the kids can use their own eyes to assess whether a dog is safe or not safe to approach. So they get to learn about stress signals. And they also get to learn, you know, what kind of situation would be okay? Like, is it okay to pet a dog on the other side of offense? Is it okay to pet a dog that is tethered, you know, tied up to something and there's no adults around? Is it okay to pet a dog that you see wandering alone in the park? Like, those kinds of things more like situational that the older kids can understand, and also what to do if you want to cross it off like that. Of course, the first thing a child wants to do if they're scared is run and scream is the backbone thing you want to do. When there's dogs, they will see it and chase and you will just get more aroused. And it's hard to and this is for adults as well. You know, the hardest thing to do is to just freeze and to stand still, but that's what we teach them how to be a tree. Because then you're boring. And the dog will probably just look at you maybe a few and walk away. And so we teach them those kinds of things. And then the class that I developed, both I love dogs. It goes beyond just dog safety. But also, as I mentioned before, pet care, how do you take care of a dog. And this was this came out of having some of the places where I have thought, asked me for more than just dog safety. And so I put this one together, that was a little bit more all encompassing. And then I have the dockless baby class that I teach here. And I am in the process of putting together a class that I'm going to be taking to senior centers, pet friendly senior buildings, to help seniors learn about how to take care of their dog. Wow. Oh yeah.
Collin 40:00
Yeah, so you're really, I mean, most of those are very focused at the the smaller kids, do you is is that typically where a lot of the incidents occur with interactions, you know, negative interactions between animals and people?
Alicia 40:17
Yes, children is definitely and there's a lot of reasons. I mean, just physiologically, they're smaller. And so they're kind of more, right there face to face with dogs, especially big dogs. And so, you know, a bite to you or I might be on the shin. But if it's a four year old child, that fight ends up being on the face. And so that's one of the reasons why it can be more dangerous with little kids. But also little kids don't necessarily have good boundaries. I mean, how many times has a good run in and accidentally jumped up and hurt you because they're so happy to see you. So sometimes You know, they can hurt a dog, they can jump in, especially when you have senior dogs who are already perhaps arthritic, or again, you know, if a child bumps down or jumps on them and causes them pain that can cause them to bite.
41:18
And then
Alicia 41:20
also, the food situation, kids always seem to have food on them. from them trailing behind them. I mean, every dog's favorite places under the highchair to find the falling food, and so horseback could be a real draw for some dogs to want to perhaps nip at the child. You know, if the kids walking around with a big cookie and a tan, so there's several different reasons why, and a big part of it is just lack of education. I mean, nobody's teaching the kids what they should or shouldn't be doing. Like one of the things we've learned I speak doggy for preschoolers just the basics of when to leave dogs alone. If they're eating, if they're sleeping, you know, you don't go and try to pull a rawhide out of the dog's mouth. And, you know, one of the things we talk about a dog is baby classes is having a barrier between where the dog eat, and where the toddlers climbing, you know, crawling around, because a kid will stick his hands in the dog food bowl, you know, and the second thing is that if that dog is eating, those fingers become very tasty all of a sudden,
Collin 42:30
yeah, and, you know, or if the dog just has food aggression or is being protective, you know, in the, you know, toddlers especially you know, when they're crawling love things at their level and dog bowls are right there and they're fun to play with, ya know, so I can definitely see that and we we went through some very similar working with our kid, both of our kids and with our dogs and he, he has the temperament of a lab. I don't know where he got this from, but he would be a dachshund, he is so relaxed and is so tolerant of those two, but he very clearly communicates when he's not happy. And when he wants to be left alone, it was just, it was a great opportunity that my wife and I would could really latch on to, and go listen to him, watch what he's doing with his ears, you know, back away, you know, don't do that while he's doing this. Because when we had other dogs around, then we didn't really have to worry about them because they knew that well, Coby you know, our dogs and acts like this. I'm not gonna deal you know, I'm not gonna go out and bother those other dogs because they may act like Yeah,
Alicia 43:35
yeah, that's great to hear some of that education before you had client dogs.
Collin 43:40
Yeah, and that's a growing thing. I feel like I've run into a lot of people who are doing pet sitter, their pet sitters, but they also have their own kids and may bring them around clients, whether on drop in visits or within their home. So what are some steps that those those sitters could and should do? take to ensure that everybody's safe and happy.
Alicia 44:02
Well, the best way to make sure everybody is safe is not bring your kids. But you know, that can't always happen if you, you know, your kids are sick or whatever. And so you know, just really making sure you know that if you can avoid it, I would avoid it. And of course, making sure you have insurance that covers if any incidents happen, not only, you know, between the dog and the child that you bring the child to your client's home and they knock over an expensive base or something, you know, you have to be really careful about, you know, an insurance issues. And then I would also make sure that you really know the dog well, because not all dogs like kids, right. You know, they're not all comfortable with it. And mostly because a lot of dogs weren't raised with kids and children can be scary, because they, they move on. predictably, they make loud strange noises. You know, first A dog, a three year old is a completely different species from an adult, you know, or for that matter from a 12 year old or a baby, they're all very different in the way that they move and interact in the world. And so dogs are not necessarily comfortable with that. And we have to respect that. You might have a client that says, Oh, my dog loves kids or my dogs fine. But we need to be able to use our own skills to assess that. And not just take somebody else's word for it, especially, you know, if it's your kid who could be at risk, you don't want to take somebody else's word for it. So you want to make sure that you know that dog and you're comfortable with that dog. Perhaps you've seen that dog with other kids, maybe that family has kids. So you know, he's got some level of comfort. So, you know, again, it's preparation and prevention is always the way to go. And then of course, like what you did, teaching our kids very early on, all that they need to know about dogs as well. What is safe, what is not safe, when to approach when not to approach? how to approach and a big, big one that I think is important for kids and adults to learn is that dogs need to have a choice about whether they want to interact or not. So with kids, we teach pet pet paws, you know, add them a few times and then stop. If they walk away, they're done. If they don't, then they like it. So that's one way to do it. Making sure that kids love to chase dogs and dogs ate to be cornered. You know, kids run and chase the dog into a corner. Sometimes that dog feels like it's only option is to launch an attack to get out of there. So you know, making sure that dogs have exit strategies. You know, and that's part of how you set up the house as well. But just you know, teaching kids what's okay what's not okay and to respect dogs. Really Go along,
Collin 47:00
as we talked about previously is, you know, there's a lot of groundwork that families go through to introduce a dog into a family. And when you bring your own kids over, you're kind of fast tracking that. And in in, it's a whole new scenario, because you're new, the kids are new, the whole situation is new. And so things are kind of heightened already. And, and so to really have good training and education, both on your part and your kids part, if that's something that you're going to continue to do, and clear communication with the owner about expectations and doing several meet and greets, and several interactions before that actually happens to make sure that everyone's 100% comfortable.
Alicia 47:44
Right, right. I mean, I would definitely make sure that clients are okay with you bringing kids over. Yes. That's something that I'm often talking to adults about, especially those who don't have kids is that we need to be advocates for our dogs and it's okay to tell people that You know, when they say, Oh, can I pet your dog? It's okay to say no. You know, if you have a fearful dog or a dog who doesn't like kids, and sometimes kids just want to run up to you and pet your dog. But people don't like to say, Oh, you know, no, because maybe that means their dog is mean or their dog is, you know, a bad dog and, and so I always recommend that people just say, Oh, I'm sorry, he's in training right now. Um, and that's a way to keep people away without making him seem like a bad dog.
Collin 48:27
Because you can feel so self conscious to tell somebody No, they may you may, you may start thinking, Oh, they may think that's a bad dog or they've something has happened before. I'm just being mean, but be an advocate and advocate because you know, as you mentioned, your dog needs an out and sometimes that out, is you getting your dog out of a situation.
Alicia 48:46
Yep. Yep. We need to keep them safe. They look to us for that, and we need to do that for them.
Collin 48:51
So I know all of those courses that you teach, how are a lot are very in depth. I was wondering if you could walk through some basic maybe age appropriate Things that we could be teaching our kids or helping our clients to work through with their kids as their kids get older.
Alicia 49:06
Well, I think just some general things, you know, respecting the dog space, letting the dog decide if and when, and how they want to interact. Learning about stress signals, so that you can see when the dogs uncomfortable and needs to either leave the situation or have the situation with the dog. Making sure that they're getting all their physical, mental and emotional needs met, so they're less likely to be stressed. You know, that old saying that a tired dog is a good dog. And that's very true. And not just physically tired. But is your dog getting enough mental stimulation? You know, unfortunate how many dogs to sit inside all day while their parents are gone? And, you know, what are you doing so that your dog feels happy, mentally stimulated, you, you know, kind of games in the world. puzzle toys Do you have, making sure their emotional needs are met, also will help them be less stressed and be happier dogs. I mean, we're all nicer to others when we're happier, right? So we want to make sure our dogs are having a fulfilled life as well. So remembering that all dogs, like people are different. Not all dogs, like all dogs, or all people, just like we don't like everybody. We can't expect our dogs to like everybody, either. So just, I think really respecting teaching kids and ourselves to respect dogs and into what their needs are, rather than just imposing our needs on them.
Collin 50:43
Yeah, because it can be very tempting of, well, this is my dog, I got this dog to make me happy and it makes me happy. So why is the dog acting this way? Whenever I'm trying to be happy and I want to go for a walk and I want to be doing this and I want to be doing that to step back. Oh, you know, maybe the dog doesn't want to go today. That's fine. There are days where I don't like to do certain things too. So, okay, that's fine.
Alicia 51:08
Right? Or you want a certain kind of dog and that's just not the dog you got. Yeah, you know, not every dog, the dog park dog, right? It's not respectful to the dog to try to make him something he's not just like if you had a child that was shy, um, you wouldn't want to force him into social situations that made him uncomfortable. You would have to, you know, rearrange your expectations.
Collin 51:30
One of the services that you mentioned that you provide is crisis and grief counseling, which I honestly think is something that doesn't get talked enough about in pet care circles. And I recognize it's not just for the family. We as professionals who are providing this care gets super attached to our to these furry friends. What are some signs that someone may need to be seeking some help in dealing with the loss of a pet?
Alicia 51:59
Well, grief Unfortunately, is a natural part of life. If you're going to love, you're going to agree. So we really need to let ourselves feel it and go through it. pretending it's not happening is not helpful to the healing process. And it helps a lot if folks have supportive friends and family to talk to, you know, and sometimes that's enough. But not everyone is supportive of the kind of emotions that arise from that loss. And, you know, I think many of us pet lovers have experienced someone say something like, you know, we'll just get another dog or you know, something that we don't feel is very supportive. And so, you know, if you need to talk to someone and you don't have someone supportive in your life, there are lots of hotlines at loss hotlines and support groups. And those are really great for helping you see that you're not alone, and that your feelings are valid, that it's okay to be really upset about the loss of a dog. Um, you know, and for some people, you know, especially like seniors, that dog really was like their everyday companion. And it can be very depressing when people have become so close to their dog to lose their dog or their cat for that matter. So, if you feel that your grief is getting in the way of daily functioning, it is getting in the way of your close relationships of your work, not being able to go to work or not being able to deliver deliver quality work, because you know, your mind is elsewhere. These might be times to seek professional help, such as a therapist.
Collin 53:41
Yeah, you mentioned there is that you know, it, grief. True grief is is a natural part of that. And I like how you started off by saying if you're going to love you're going to grieve and knowing that that is going to happen and that's okay and that's normal. But when it starts to affect relationships in what's going on around you that that that can be a sign that it's time to maybe reach out to to get some help.
Alicia 54:08
And, you know, again, you might want to, you know, that therapists to make sure that you find one that is empathetic to these sorts of things, and that they're not also someone who's going to think that the loss of a bed is shouldn't be such a big deal. How has that side of it changed over the years? It sounds like it hasn't always been as recognized as it currently is these days? Well, like we were talking before, I think a lot of it is the fact that we are identifying pets as family members now. And that wasn't always the case. And so when we have an animal who is living in our homes, in our beds, and again, for those people who may be live alone, you know, this animal may play a huge part in their life, to lose that. It can be very devastating. You Depending on the bond that is built, because the bond can be very intense for some people, and, you know, that wouldn't necessarily have been the case before, if, you know the dogs weren't always their family members. And because of the number of pets and the number of pet products and services and everything that's been elevated over the years, it's become, I think, a little bit more acceptable. For for us to, to feel that loss because more people are, are realizing the importance of pets in our lives.
Collin 55:36
As you mentioned, when you reach out to somebody, you know, they may be a grief counselor, or crisis counselor, ask if they have experience or expertise in dealing with pet loss specifically because there's that way they can, they can deal with that and they can acknowledge and validate some of the things that you're going through
Alicia 55:52
in most of your animal hospitals, animal shelters, we'll have resources so you can go to their website. And they'll have a list of pet loss resources, such as hotlines and support groups. So that's always a place to go as well.
Collin 56:08
On the note of resources. We've talked about a lot of different things. What are some of your favorite resources that you recommend people who are interested in these kind of topics?
Alicia 56:18
Well, a couple of them that I've mentioned today, dog on safe is a wonderful organization. It's just doggone safe, calm, and they have great resources for pet professionals, but also for families, family paws. They're the organization that specifically works with dog plus baby dog plus toddler issues. And it's their information that I use to develop my dog baby class. And then they're all the family dog. And that's the one that created the curriculum. I speak doggy, and they have a few other curriculums as well, and a new program to become a dog trainer. There's one point Good job in a box. They're great. They're a little other fairly new for tech professionals sent that I'm really enjoying right now all the diagnostics Career Center. And it's basically online classes of all kinds. I just finished a certification program to become a dog bite prevention educator to them. And then right now, I just started a class on end of life issues, and they just have all different kinds of classes. Again, just to help all of us learn all the different pet care pet issues so that we can be great resources for our clients.
Collin 57:40
Right? Yeah, there's so much out there. There's so much so many great resources and and there'll be links to, to those and a few other things we've talked about in the show notes and on the website for for this episode, at least yet. I really want to thank you so much for coming on and taking time out of your day. I've really enjoyed this conversation, but I've been we've only scratched the surface on these topics. There's so much more there. If people want to reach out and ask some more questions, how can they get in touch and follow along with your work?
Alicia 58:12
Well, my company is called pitter patter parenting. So I'm at pitter patter parenting.com. And you can also find me on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Yelp, all of those resources. And thank you so much for having me on the show. I really enjoyed talking about these things. And I'm a big fan of the podcast. So
Collin 58:35
thank you very much. Hopefully, we'll have you on again soon. Sounds good. We all have a role to play in keeping everybody safe. Even if you don't have kids, maybe your clients do. Be on the lookout for how their kids interact with their dog during a meet and greet or maybe as you interact with your clients from time to time. help educate them on the best practices, share some of the resources that are in the show notes with them to make sure That their dog and their kids are able to play safe and happy every single day. And if you do have kids began teaching them the safe manners, these techniques so that you don't have to worry about them whenever new dogs are around in screens so carefully during those meet and greets, ask those really specific questions and really watch for those behaviors in both your kids and for the dogs that you are bringing into your care. We can make the whole experience so much safer for everybody involved. Megan and I would love to hear from you and how you're doing maybe some of your experiences in introducing a new puppy to your kids or your kids to dogs that you care for. please email us at feedback at pet sitter confessional comm send us an email at feedback at pet sitter confessional comm You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram pet sitter confessional or leave us a voicemail 636-364-8260 and if you enjoyed this episode or any of our past episodes, share it with a friend or leave us a rating review on iTunes or wherever you're listening
