108- Hiring in the Time of Covid-19
Summary
Today’s episode is two interviews, one with Amber, owner of Atta Boy! Animal Care, and the other with Mary Beth, owner of Auntie M Pet Care. They talk about what the hiring process has been like through Covid, how their processes have changed, and how the job pool applicant is different now than it was previously.
Topics on this episode:
How you handle staff during Covid
How has the hiring place changed?
What is the applicant pool like?
Advice for other’s interested in hiring
Main take away? Get a process in place for hiring that will get applicants you actually want!
Links:
Atta Boy! website: https://www.attaboyanimalcare.com
Email Amber: info@attaboyanimal.com
Amber’s previous episode
Mary Beth Benton’s provious episode
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, hiring, applicants, clients, hiring process, dog, questions, pet, business, job, person, timeframe, process, position, staff, full time position, applying, orion, handle, post
SPEAKERS
Amber, Collin, Mary Beth
00:17
I'm Collin and I'm Meghan. And this is pet sitter confessional,
00:20
and open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter.
Collin 00:28
Well, hello, everybody and welcome back to a very special Friday episode. We were curious kind of what the state of hiring was like in the pet care industry. So we reached out to amber van Denson Suarez, owner of Attaboy animal care and you may remember her from Episode 51. We also reached out to Mary Beth Benton, owner of Auntie Anne's pet sitting from Episode 40 to talk about their hiring practices, what the applicant pool has looked like and how things have changed through COVID. So today you'll hear two separate interviews. The first one is with Amber from Attaboy. So let's get started.
Amber 01:06
My name is Amber van Denson. Suarez, as you mentioned previously, I am the owner and founder of Adeboye Animal Care located in central Florida. We are a pet sitting and dog walking company that was started seven years ago. Previous to that I was a trained veterinary technician and went to the University of Florida for Animal Sciences. And I'm a certified professional pet sitter.
Collin 01:32
And so today we are talking about hiring. So to give some people a little bit of context about your process. Could you tell us a little bit about your your business structure?
Amber 01:40
Absolutely. So Adeboye Animal Care is an LLC for tax purposes and business purposes. We have currently 10 staff persons, which are currently I sees in the state of Florida, we are able to use ICS. And that is pretty common currently. So currently, we have 10 pet sitters and dog walkers. We have one manager and we have one assistant and plus myself as well.
Collin 02:10
Were you able to to keep them on throughout COVID? Or, you know, how was business impacted for you?
Amber 02:17
Yeah, so COVID, you know, as we all know, has been fun for everybody. In the state of Florida, we had a quarantine for about a month and change. And then you know, pretty strict regulations after that. As for our staff, we did have a decrease in staff, that people I feel either took the opportunity to reevaluate their life and their time commitments. And we ended up having three pet sitters actually ended up leaving for all valid personal purposes, we found that when one announced that they were leaving, we actually had a second one. And then a third one all within about a week and a half Actually, I feel like you know, got the guts to say let me reevaluate my life too, and choose to not commit to this part time gig of, you know, pet care with Adeboye.
Collin 03:05
Sure. Now, whenever you were on locked down, you know, how did you handle the staff that you had at that moment? You know, did you were you able to just say, you know, wait, and we'll see how the things pan out? or What did that process look like?
Amber 03:18
So with independent contractors, obviously different from employee status, what that was able to say was we had an open and honest conversation prior to us even announcing it to our clientele that in Florida pet sitting and dog walking was not considered an essential service by any means. So we were not legally allowed to participate in those services, unless they were for like a medically needy reason, or a owner was considered an essential worker, and they were gone longer than 12 hours out of their their home. So because of that we told our considers, there may be a scenario case by case we may have a client that may need this based off of those parameters. But if not just expect that we will not be bringing in income at or not having jobs during this timeframe. So I would say everybody kind of took a just calm, quiet time to not work with us and deal with their own life at that point in time. And when we did reopen, we had all of our staff come back at that time that we actually had this staff that left, we're actually at the end of July area timeframe. So a few months after reopening post quarantine timeframe.
Collin 04:28
So you know, what was that like as the owner having to come and talk to your staff about that situation?
Amber 04:34
It's hard because not only are you're worrying about your own personal lifestyle and your business that you've built up and then you're trying to have a strong facade in front of them. So there's no worry or freakout situations. Our goal was to have a committed friend and for everybody involved including our clientele. So when we had went to our clientele, it was the same consistent messaging, which I feel like is important for Any type of situation or disaster situation, or you know, another COVID related outbreak or whatnot that may come in the future, I think it's huge to have a consistent messaging and a united front for everybody, including the community, your clients and your staff. So is it hard to say those things? Absolutely. It's scary, it's terrifying. But at the same time, we wanted to make sure that they knew we were confident, we were open and honest. And we were saying this is where we're at. This is the timeframe that we have to still stay afloat, which we luckily had, you know, savings in the back, that we had to push through this timeframe. And when we talk to our staff about this, and an open and honest conversation with clear facts, and a clear process that was already created prior to going out to anybody, I think it was met well, and it was met with Okay, that's the plan, it is what it is, and we know how to handle it.
Collin 05:59
Talk us through what you did, what the hiring process was before the pandemic. And then what what what you've changed or what looks different now?
Amber 06:08
Sure, absolutely. So pre COVID, we typically did a hiring process of they would either submit some type of resume, through a Facebook job post or an indeed job post, you would review it, then we would automatically set up an in person interview, usually with myself, the owner at a local coffee shop, such as a you know, Starbucks or something like that patio. And then I had a series of questions, I would ask them, confirm their availability, etc. and then kind of get that personal opinion in touch on top of the educated, you know, choices at that point in time. And then we would say we would get back to them, offer a position process a background screen, and then get them through the onboarding stages post during COVID. And post COVID. You know, in this court COVID lifestyle now, we've drastically changed that, we've decided to make a multi step hiring process that is all
07:04
virtual.
Amber 07:05
And what that meant is that we wanted to make sure we had we saw a large amount of applications because people were desperate to have some type of income. And a lot of people that either got furloughed or their jobs were eliminated completely due to COVID. They were just begging to find jobs. And so we had over 500 applications in less than two months for one position that was posted in a radius of 10 miles in our smaller town in Central Florida. So it was drastic, we've never had that many applications ever. So we really needed to create an SLP or, you know, process to ensure that we weren't wasting our time, and we weren't wasting their time and ultimately finding the right candidate for the positions we needed to fill. So what we did is, first of all, we created an indeed or and or Facebook post, obviously, that were identical. So anyone could hire ease or apply easily on either channel, we then automatically got an email follow up if they applied that directed them to a survey online to confirm their location and confirm their availability to confirm that they have a smartphone access that they have to a vehicle. And then we actually set up a scenario based question as well. So we gave them a scenario of a person going in as a pet sitter to a household with two cats, the house looked clean the cat, they could only find one of the cats or two in the household. But the litter box had five plus urine output and three plus fecal output, all of the food was eaten in a consistent manner. And there was one small pile of bile slash like grass vomit on a piece of carpet. Yes, the maid is coming later, we asked them to then respond as if they were sending a message to the client. So when we wanted to see what they were doing when they thought on their feet, in that scenario, two, we got to see their grammar. And three, we get to see their attention to detail. The biggest thing is we said, put it in towards the client. So not just saying I would do this, and I would do that. But Hi, Mr. Mrs. So and so, you know, I saw fluffy but I couldn't see Tom, you know, I clean the litter box and replace the water and blah, blah, blah, and I cleaned up the bio, but I will leave a note to let the maid know if they need to clean it more. So that's, you know, our ultimate ideal output on that based off of that, we then review it and then our manager will set up a phone call to confirm availability for a second time, our goal is to make sure they're not looking for a full time position or anything of that sort. And so to avoid any miscommunication of what this position is reconfirm that it is a gig side job, you know, and we kind of give a base number of you know, what's expected of how much you could get paid in a typical month depending on their availability. So again, been very open with that. So there was no question of a doubt. We've requested a six month time commitment. So they knew it wasn't just a fly by until I get another job that helpfully No, but we did put it out there. And then we asked them two questions one, a medical based animal question and one if they checked our website yet, and if they did not, or did not know the answer to the medical question or did not check our website or manager requested them to definitely check out the website. And she explained what the medical answer to this question was it specifically related to bloat what is blue? Do you know what it is? If they didn't know we would then give them that answer. And our goal is if they were with the manager thought they were a good candidate to move forward in our hiring process. Our next step was for to submit an Orion psychology test, you don't know what an Orion psychology test is. It's amazing. They've been around for ages, it was highly recommended from other large companies, not just petsitting, but maid services and house care type services as well. It reviews some psychological questions
11:01
that will
Amber 11:03
give an expectation on if the person has high likelihood of theft, by likelihood of drug use on the job. If they have good customer service skills, if they will listen to their managers or supervisors. Well, amongst other things, and they give you a grading range on it, their percentages of accuracy are insanely good, they've been around for a long, long time, if we recommend checking them out. There's other companies like that as well. Once they pass that successfully, based on the parameters that Orion gives us, we then offer a zoom based interview with myself. That's kind of replacing that in person interview, we send them the link to the zoom, we set up a time and date takes about 20 minutes. Typically, we have a series of questions that we based with some points system that we ask them typical interview question, you know, like, why do you want this job? Some icebreakers as well? Like, if you could be any animal? What kind of animal would you be? And then another scenario based question about them walking the dog on the street encountering a loose dog and what they would do? And then we re re re ask those two questions at that manager asked on the phone call the one about the medical scenario ablute. And I asked them the exact same question, do you know what it is? And if they chose not to listen to the manager giving that explanation or chose not to the follow up and learn a little bit more about that, we can see that. And then I asked him again, did you check out our website, if they didn't check out our website, big red flag, I'm not a huge fan of that, especially when the manager recommended them to do that. So again, attention to detail, focus and actually commitment to the position. Um, based off of that, if we like, and they passed successfully with the point system, we then review all the applicants in that timeframe. And then again, offer them the position do a background screen through a company called good hire some people use accurate track as well, and then get them on board. And after that, that's all virtual. Yeah, we do we really wanted to know it's true. What do you say that you're like, wow, who wouldn't want to do that for a part time gig, that they may get an extra few bucks on the side, right? Like who would want to do that? But ultimately, it comes down to we're caring for living, breathing creatures. And if you don't want to take the time to make sure you have we're getting the best possible personality, a trainable personality, and then I don't want that person. Ultimately, you know, so I'm not hoping for any person to fill a position. I'm hoping for the right person to fill
13:31
that position.
Collin 13:32
Yeah, no, absolutely. And and especially, you know, when I'm thinking of is this process and just keeping it all organized, when you have 500 applicants?
13:41
Yeah.
Collin 13:43
How long did that the start to finish process take per per applicant, you know, on average, to go through them. We have
Amber 13:50
automatic weed out questions on the deed or Facebook ad that can probably eliminate more than half of those based off of location availability. And a basic question like, why do you want to be a pet sitter dog walker? And if they say, Yes, I will do both. That's not answering the question. Again, attention to detail is like what I keep focusing on I always look for personality and attention to detail, because if you can have those things, they're usually trainable for everything else. So I would say a typical timeframe you know, they submit their resume I don't know how long that takes them. Our survey is five minutes from start to finish the phone interview 10 minutes so 15 minutes right now, the Orion takes about 15 minutes so we're at 30 minutes at this point and then we do the in person interview by about 20 minutes so you know we're looking at about an hour total commitment from the applicant so it doesn't sound like a lot when they actually do it you know from start to finish. It sounds like a lot when you put it on paper. Yeah,
Collin 14:48
but you know what this process I just I love this process because you keep you mentioned like the attention to detail is so important. Did they follow directions when they were told to go check out the website. Did they do that, you know, like this, all these little pieces you're able to put together in here. And so I'm curious about what your thoughts are on this process compared to the way you used to do it. You know which one you like better or prefer or what kind of results you think you're getting.
Amber 15:16
We think that people that we're hiring now, or you know, getting to the point of that zoom interview, aka the option of the in person interview, we have higher quality candidates at that point, our concept is if we showcase this position, as a position that you want to have, and that you're striving to have not just Oh, anybody will hire me, because anybody can be a pet sitter on some big bang, you know, app type options. But oh, this is the company actually want to work for showcasing what we do for the community, showcasing our teamwork opportunities, showcasing the education that we provide, I think that will set us apart to get the candidates that go, yeah, this is a side gig, but I'm committed to this side gig, ultimately. So I would choose this option. And even if COVID magically goes away, tomorrow, we're still going to continue a fully virtual option. It's quicker for us ultimately, I don't have to meet people in person, which you know, time and driving and you know, gas and all that stuff, and having goodbye coffee every time or tea. And then that awkward like Okay, do I hug you? Do I give you a hand high five? Or if I didn't really like you? Like, do I have to give you a courtesy? 10 minutes type situation doesn't apply anymore. That so we will continue down this path because we can do it. My manager is in Virginia, we're in Florida, and she can do 90% of this process for us virtually. So why wouldn't I have that done? The the things that we do have changed, and we've added more steps. But we found those steps will weed out those people that we really didn't want in that position. Ultimately, those questions that we ask that, are you available during these consistent times? Are you comfortable wearing, you know, our code related measures? Can you handle those attention to detail such as wearing a mask and washing your hands and all that jazz? If they can pay attention to details in the hiring process? I'm going to assume they're gonna be easier to train for COVID related things or in related things, or whatever may come in the future.
Collin 17:10
Right? Yeah. And I was gonna ask if you were looking for any particular new skills or knowledge sets, but it sounds like what's really happening here is you're able to ask more specific questions repeatedly to get things that you were already wanting in the first place.
Amber 17:25
Yeah, I feel like people can walk their way through a question once and it may not be the right answer. But you're like, in the moment you're trying to process it all and go, Yeah, okay. Yes, that sounds fine. But when you start asking question twice in two different venues or formats, and you can get the same answer or the different answer, you know, when people apply, yeah, I'm available to everything. But then when you ask them to check mark, which days and our timeframes are available, and all sudden, they're not available for everything, you know, how many times we've seen that happen?
Collin 17:56
Yeah, looking for looking for consistency, and not maybe necessarily trying to catch them lying or being dishonest or anything like that. But just seeing like, okay, you told me something, is that actually true? Because if they act like that around you, how, you know, what are they gonna act like when they're out on their own in a client's home.
Amber 18:13
And that's the biggest thing because we're in a position with pet sitting and dog walking, where we're not seeing 100% oversight, like when you are in a brick and mortar facility, there's not a manager or another staff person overseeing every step that they're doing, or a camera in the facility that can do that for you. We're doing a lot of trust factor on we're giving you the training and knowledge to succeed. And I need to expect you to do that and self manage on your own went out in a client's home is most of the time. And so, attention to detail and personality are some of the biggest things that we look for, personally for our staff.
Collin 18:48
And you mentioned it a little bit earlier about just the size of the job pool applicants that you are, but tell us a little bit more about what kind of applicants you are getting and the kind of people who are applying.
19:01
Don't ask me those questions.
Amber 19:05
No, it's fine. Um, so what we find is that, you know, during this covid timeframe, I go back to we see a lot of people that were in some type of retail job or entertainment industry since we are in Central Florida, we have Legoland really close to us, Disney Universal Studios. And a lot of people in the area where we're at will make that drive to work for those companies. So because of that a lot of them had for a lower layoffs from that. So automatically when we saw a lot of people apply that said they were at Disney or labor land or insert, you know, entertainment company here, and we saw clearly that they ended their position right around the time. We know they're looking for a filler job straight up, let me know this, you know, they can say no, I'm not looking for a full time position. We know you are because you just got laid off from a full time position. So when we saw those things that would honestly probably take up more than 50% of the applicants that we automatically you know that a one that wants to specific reason to weed out Absolutely not. But when we saw, you know, it's kind of like a puzzle pieces that you're putting together to figure out the answer in the long run. And that was one of those puzzle pieces we looked at was, did their positions suddenly end in March, April, May, I can't give them a full time position, and they're gonna say they're not needing it. But we actually had two hires that worked through the whole process with us. And then literally the first week that was finally when we got them an opportunity to offer them a job, they're like, Oh, I just accepted a full time position, I'm not available anymore. And that wasted a ton of time, and everything else. So even with that multi step process, that stuff's still gonna happen, ultimately, but we're trying to avoid it as much as possible. So I would say about 50% of our applicants were because they had a recent layoff or furlough situation, and we're looking for quick cash. The other 50%, I would say, we're decent potentials that we would have gotten pre COVID, no matter what, ultimately, we used to have a lot of applications from people that were already in the pet industry with different venues such as veterinary. So we have thought a lot of like, technicians or a receptionist in the veterinary field looking for extra cash on the side or something and pet sitting would be a great opportunity for them. And we found actually a major decrease in those applicants because they've been working so hard in their curbside type service that most veterinarians are offering currently, and doing extra extended hours that they're just worn out. And they are not interested in having a second job, or a side gig or whatever you want to call it at all. So we've had a huge decrease actually in applicants that are in those venues. So that's been a struggle to because we do look for applicants that have that for part of our positions for our you know, special needs or medically needy pets. So that was a struggle, getting applicants that do have those skills, because they're just so burnt out in their current full time job in those with those positions. Right?
Collin 21:54
If somebody is listening to this, and they are thinking about starting going through the hiring process a new or maybe for the first time, what advice would you give to them?
Amber 22:03
Absolutely. So I actually have a couple of people that I was just talking to this about that they're like individual sitters, or you know, they've kind of done some dry jobs, and they want to get more serious about it and build a team. And the first thing I say, is make sure you know what you want for your team, because you can't sell your company and you can't choose the right person for your company, if you don't know what that person is. So I say create an avatar, if they gave an avatar of the ideal staff person for you. age bracket, skill set, personality type, etc. Is that personally type A or, you know, do they lean towards a different? What is that that you want for your company? If you're looking to replicate yourself, what does that look like? Exactly? Or if you're trying to diversify? What does that look like, set that up. And that's your number one step, then the next step is to make sure that you're showcasing your business is the business that people actually want to work for people have options, people have opportunities to work in the animal industry in a variety of ways, especially with App based pet care companies out there now. And they can make more in their pocket sometimes with those app based companies, just depending on the situation. So you want to showcase your business and why your business is more interesting and a better opportunity. What we tell our people that are applying is hey, we have insurance, we have bonding, you know, so here's an awful scenario. And if somebody wanted to sue you, would you have that to cover your bum. If not, then maybe it's not a good idea to pet sit on the sky. And that's why you want to work for us, you know, we have a higher clientele opportunity so we can offer you more jobs, etc, etc. So showcase why you're selling yourself to them as much as they're selling yourself to you. So that's a huge piece of that as well. And then set up your system. You know, everybody has an opinion on if it should be quick and easy for people will get bored and move on. And other people say it should be a little bit longer. And there's some hype built up to it like, Hey, we have other options, you're not our only option. We're not desperate for you necessarily, but we know you're valued at the same time. So there's times where you take a little extra time and there's times that you go a little bit quicker deciding what ones matter to you deciding the amount of timeframe you're looking to do that are the ultimate goals. So for hiring, whether it's an IC, or an employee status or whatever works for your company.
Collin 24:21
It really sounds like it takes some a little bit of introspection at the beginning. Yeah, right. Oh, yeah. yourself, right.
Amber 24:28
And there's, I know, I know, someone's gonna listen to this and say, I have no freaking idea. I have no idea. How do I know what I want? How do I know what I want in an IC in an employee if I've never had one before, right? And so I go look at your business and look at yourself doing that job and what's the most important pieces and like I said previously, we were hiring on attention to detail and personality, because if they have the right personality that can make people trust them in their homes with their living, breathing creature pets, family. Insert here, then that everything else is trainable. Learning how to use a leash is trainable learning how to clean a litter box and, you know diagnosing, you know, emergency situations, or not diagnosing wrong or identifying, identifying emergency situations, then those are things I can train using programs out there that are intended for pet sitting dog walking companies. So, in personality is huge and attention to teach in detail, you cannot train that's something that is really hard to train rather. So if somebody comes in with that, naturally, that's what I'm looking for. Those are my top two things. How did I find that out trial and error seven years in business using icees, having dozens of staff persons in the past seven years, you know, and looking back at companies I've worked for in the past as well, and said, Hey, what did I like, as a staff person? What did I not like, as a staff person? What made me want to work for that company? And what did it ultimately so using my own personal experiences, and talking to other friends and family? If I didn't have those experiences, I would talk to somebody else and say, Hey, what's your favorite job? Why was it your favorite job? You know, what wasn't your favorite job? Why didn't you like it, ultimately? And then go from there?
Collin 26:08
Yeah, yeah, just saying, reach out for help ask some beginning questions, especially if you're just starting, or maybe you've tried to hire in the past, and it never seemed to work out and you're trying to get that step. Again,
Amber 26:18
it's scary, especially if you had a bad situation occur, because it's somebody else that you are hopefully trusting to be on your team. And something awful happened, it's really, really terrifying. Because this could be your you know, your life source. If you don't have this business, you don't have income, you, you know, your make or break your mortgage, or your bills, or whatever. So when you're trusting somebody to do that, especially if a previous bad situation occurred, it's terrifying. It's terrifying. So I always say, look at what happened, what caused that to occur? How can you fix that in the future? So you can avoid that as much as possible? Aren't mistakes gonna happen? Absolutely. Are we humans? Absolutely. Is that why we have insurance and bonding? Absolutely. You know, so that's why we have to trust the tools, we have to be able to trust the staff that we want.
Collin 27:06
But again, the advantage of some of the opportunities that right now affords us to be able to put in some of these online processes for hiring to these multiple stage these multiple interactions, these multiple touch points in the hiring process. So that maybe, you know, something failed in the past, well, there's new things going on right now. And a lot of people are more used to them. So, you know, like, like you were doing amber of these multitasking these multiple questions the exact same time. Yeah, you know, through through throughout the entire process. You You now have that at your disposal to start implementing to try and bring in a different kind of, of applicant.
Amber 27:44
Absolutely. You know, and some people say the next step is like, okay, you're doing all these online things. What's the cost associated with that, you know, so what the company we use for surveys, survey, monkey, it's free. So there's that I'm having an indeed add an unposed. An unsponsored one is for one post is free, a Facebook job ad is free, again, unless you choose to sponsor them. The Orion type of testing does cost us don't quote me exactly, I want to say it's around $15 for the Orion per applicant. So that's probably one of our highest pieces of that. And then our time for the interviews. So a phone interview, whatever it costs for your phone bill, and the time of whoever's doing it. And the zoom is a one on one zoom call is free, or you can choose to have, you know, a higher tiered option, or a paid option as well. And then the background screen process, obviously, which is required. You mean, if you're in a business, and you're having an IC employee, if you're not doing a background screen, don't I mean, don't even get me started on that. So you need to have a background screen B. And so ultimately, what we're paying for is very, very minor, the Orion and that's like the ultimate cloth, you know, is for $15 if I can weed out so many applicants, because they have higher risks of theft, which is a huge problem, you know, in that could occur, that could really hurt your relationship with a client and business, even with bonding behind you. That's a huge thing we try to read out without for obviously, as well. So if that's worth $15 for me by far. Yeah,
Collin 29:19
yeah, well, it's getting these processes getting these things in place. So that the at the end, your your hope their goal is is less work on the back end. Oh, yeah. in managing and running and with your staff.
Amber 29:31
Because when we're onboarding them, the people that do get through this process successfully, and are ready to, you know, get working our onboarding process of education opportunities, and learning our platform. And all that jazz, we found has gone so much smoother, because we're hiring for the right individual that is capable of handling those things ultimately. So the first steps of getting them to find the right person take a little bit longer, but once they're on staff and there, we know they're committed way quicker to get them off. boarded and trained for their first
30:01
job?
Collin 30:02
Yeah, well, so that's, it's a really good time, you know, if you are needing to hire to try that, again, to, to go through these processes really think through exactly, you know, make that little avatar of who you want building these processes. And and and just try it and you'll have it sounds like you know, in some cases you'll have a really large application pool, which is, which is good. You know, it's you have to have processes to to handle that and to stay organized while while working through them. But it's gonna allow you a larger group of
30:33
pool.
Amber 30:33
Yeah. Existing pool. Yeah, when we you know, when we created our survey that we sent out, it was 10 questions, and I was like, What 10 things I think are most important to have them answer in those few moments. And that took some trial and error of how we worded the questions to get the right answers that we wanted, what questions we put on there. Those were the hardest parts of figuring out what, you know, things we were putting on there. Because that took trial and error. We've been using that survey monkey for two years now. And it's, it's been edited, not for grammar errors or anything but for efficiency dozens of times already. And I think also a concept is a lot of people have been thrown for a loop in their personal careers, and they are looking at expanding their thought processes of industries they could work in. So a person that may have not applied for petsitting. Before is applying for petsitting. Now, and that could be an excellent candidate, you know, people that are in the restaurant industry or in the salon industry that are really good with customer service, if they were good in that industry work really, really well in the pet care industry as well, because for customer service is huge, obviously. So those people that may have not applied before, because they could apply to a dozen other restaurants instead. But there's not another dozen other restaurants to apply to right now. They're looking at other career opportunities, and petsitting is one of them.
Collin 31:55
Amber, thank you so much for coming on and breaking down what the hiring process has been like for you through COVID and being really encouraging through it that there are ways to get the applicants that we want so that on the back end, we have less work to do. But I know that there's a lot more involved in this entire process. So if people have more questions, they want to reach out and get in touch with you. How can they do that?
Amber 32:18
Absolutely. So you can contact me privately through Facebook, which is you know, Amber abandons in Suarez if you can spell that good luck. And then you can find us on Adeboye Animal Care our emails info at Attaboy Animal Care calm I that will get pushed to me. If you want to see any of our processes. If you want to see our surveys, I will gladly share no problem at all.
Collin 32:41
Oh, that's, that's wonderful. And I'll have links to your Facebook and your your websites. People don't have to worry about spilling anything in the show notes.
32:51
I got blessed with some beautiful names in my life.
Collin 32:57
It's been a real pleasure having you back on the show again, again. Thank you so much.
Amber 33:01
Absolutely calling. I'm so grateful. I look forward to talking to everybody soon. If you guys have any questions, just let us know. But know that hiring is not for short term bull. It's a long term.
33:12
And now let's hear from Mary Beth Benton, owner of APM petsitting.
Mary Beth 33:18
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here and share my more of my story with everyone. So I'm married with ntm pet care. And we're based in just a reminder, we're based in Asheville, North Carolina, where western North Carolina up in the mountains. And we do all in our clients home petsitting so visits and overnight. And also dog hiking and walks. So tell
Collin 33:45
us a little bit about your your business structure and how you have things set up.
Mary Beth 33:48
We have independent contractors who cover our services, I also am involved in, still involved in doing services as well. So right now we're to the point where there are 10 people total, including myself, and I also over quarantine time I transition one of my independent contractors who was doing petsitting to an admin role. And so she is now helping with scheduling. So it's the 10 of us, two of us do the admin side of things. And then the others do all the services.
Collin 34:28
A lot has happened since we recorded last so give us an update on how COVID impacted your business and how you managed and handled employees through that or that your independent contractors through that
Mary Beth 34:38
you know, like everyone else and it seemed like maybe like toward the end of March whenever that was was like a 18th or something like that. I started getting a ton of cancellations and I was staying at an overnight. I was doing an overnight up in the mountains from Black Mountain at the time and Just like it kept getting bombarded with like emails, like, I'm gonna have to cancel like, I don't know what's going on in the world. So. And actually, that client came back early because she was experiencing some symptoms that were a little precarious. So she ended up being totally fine. It was just like, another strand of some other virus. she recovered well, and so she came home early. And so I cleaned up and everything and got back to back home just to handle all the cancellations. And by the time April rolled around, we were it was just down to me. We have enough regular dog walking clients that are still able to work and do the bare minimum, in terms of like, bringing in enough revenue just to pay myself. And, you know, luckily, we've built up a bit of a cushion. So we can, I wasn't really worried about paying the bare minimum expenses. During that time, I did review everything and make sure that if there was some subscription that I had, I was canceling. And during that time, you know, I've got like a special like Adobe subscription, things like that just like, you know, cleaning things up in that regard. Um, so that was April, May, it was just myself doing maybe two or three walks a day. Some days I want to do anything is like, I don't know what to do with myself. was really strange. Like, I'm sure everyone was listening, experience that same thing, just not really knowing what to do with yourself. Um, yeah. In terms of independent contractors, you know, having them as contractors made it, it was pretty flat, like they were flexible in, you know, working through it with me. And some of them, Well, most of them on the team have other sources of income, which is lucky for everyone involved. And if that source of income, they were no longer to work through there, they were able to collect unemployment. So we were all very lucky in that way. Not everyone was super lucky in that way. And but lucky enough to be in a situation where they could go a couple months without, like, having a lot of business from ATM back here. Yeah. And so then was it like, in June, we had this like, ridiculous spike in work. Like, out of nowhere, everyone started wanting to like, catch up on what they missed for the last two months. So, but all but three of the people that work with us got back to work, then. Wow. Yeah, so is back to being five of us, I think, working in June, um, a lot of the work that we've done over that timeframe, like when we weren't busy, I was working a lot on getting more regular business, so we could have more predictable income. I'd been wanting to do that anyway, because I just felt like, you know, if you're expanding the team, I want to keep everyone busy. You know, and the work that I want to be able to keep providing work for them. So that gave me some time to work on that. And then staying in contact with the current clients and just kind of see if there were any needs we could help them with, in terms of like weekly things. So that got all the people that are available for like midday dog walks or hikes back working, but there are a couple people on the team that only do pet sitting. So they only do overnights or pet sitting visits and because of what other things they have going on in their lives. So for them, it's not been the easiest transition back into it. Unfortunately. We've have gotten some of them back to work for trips here and there. But just not you know, not everyone is back to traveling yet. Yeah. It's been like a little different for everyone. But that's kind of how it's gone.
Collin 39:47
You mentioned that about June, you're able to bring back on all but a few people for for the for your team and now you're sitting at 10. So you're hiring. Yeah. What is that is that because of an increase in demand or to replace the people who weren't able to come back on.
Mary Beth 40:03
So we had one person move away, so she was no longer with us. And then we have two people on the team that their availability just changed with other things they have going on in life. So like, looking at that, in combination with, I knew we were going to get busier because in general and 2020, I knew that like, we were going to need to hire, it just was put off until now, because of COVID. Like, back in March, I was like, starting to like, I think the week after quarantine, I was like, I'm gonna, like, post some job listings. And I was like, Oh, crap, that COVID thing is not gonna work with it.
40:49
Like, nevermind.
Mary Beth 40:53
Um, yeah. So just at the rate we were growing, and like the availability that was on a team, we were going to need a higher because we were getting busier. But then, you know, just some things have changed in terms of like, availability on the team. And also, like, what business we do have now is different than it was I, I say this, a lot of people ask me, like, how's your business doing? And COVID? I get the question so much, I'm heading out to meet and greets with clients that I had, I've known for a while, they want to talk about things and just check in with me and see how things are going. And I always say that, like, you know, we're busy. But we're busy in a very different way. We don't have a lot of sitting, we do have some we have a lot. But like last year, we had like six people doing overnights at a time at like, here. Yeah, it was crazy. Look at the schedule, and like across side, you know, but now, the schedule is way more busy just during the day, it's like slam just during business hours. And then at night, it's not so much. So with that change, like the availability of the contractors didn't match up to like what the needs were. So we were I was, I found that like, we definitely needed to hire people with more in different availability than other people that we already have.
Collin 42:30
Now, you know, you talked about that scheduling shift and the services that have changed, are those existing clients that are using your midday dog walking services that, you know, would have been doing overnights or are these brand new clients that are only wanting,
Mary Beth 42:44
I don't think we've had any, we may have had one a couple like petsitting clients that have added dog walks or hikes. Um, but we do have a lot of like at least a handful of clients that did like Monday through Friday dog walks. And we've transitioned them to doing dog hikes. So there those are folks that are we're at, we're working at an office, most of them, and a lot of them are for the hospital, too. And so they would do Monday through Friday, dog locks, and now they're working from home. And so they don't mean, they don't have the same need, but their dogs still need to get out. And it's nice for them to like, have them out of the house a little bit and make them tired. So what instead I started offering was dog hikes so we can get them out of the house for an hour or two, most people do the two hour hike because they're a bigger dog. And it allows for enough time to really wear them out, you know. So then they go back home, and they'll just like sleep on the couch for the rest of the day. And I also kind of pitched it to them as like, it'll, you know, keep the relationship up with us too. That way we don't lose track of each other. And that the dogs don't forget who we are, you know, we have some that have anxiety and stuff too. So it's helpful in that way.
Collin 44:14
We talked about changing service and needs and client expectations now kind of in this new existing world. So that's why I wanted to know what that transition look like. So, you know, where they pretty receptive of that, as you were communicating that that change of service and how to take care of them.
Mary Beth 44:30
Definitely, for the folks that were our, like existing clients, and they I mean, it took some time to until they were comfortable in terms of COVID at certain point there, you know, some people didn't even want to like let the dog run and jump in my car and we go off you know that there wasn't even a comfort level there for some people which I was even like, gotcha we have to wear gloves do we got to sanitize everything like you know Um, so once that kind of passed, and folks started getting more comfortable with COVID, in general, and just like realizing that, maybe they need to need to live their life a little bit, um, that helped get them more comfortable, I'm still realizing I need to live my life. My own comfort levels, though, I'm not saying that everyone should be out and about doing their old life. But, um, but we do have quite a few new clients too. So, we've actually started keeping track of our clients a little better the new clients that are coming in, and we're starting to like track where they come from, like, did you know, did they schedule a meet and greet? Did they, we actually provide a service after the meet and greet so we can have a better idea of like, how many clients actually booked with us that were new, instead of like, how many just signed into, like, create an account and time to pet? Because all of those people transition into being because existing clients, but yeah, so we do have new clients that are doing? Well, we have a lot of new dog hiking clients. And I think a lot of the clients that are newer, they adopted a dog at some point during quarantine. So we're starting to see that trickle in a trickle down effect. Yeah, I have one that separation anxiety who was working with a trainer that I am close friends with in town. And so through their program, they're unable to leave their dog alone at all. For several years, he like has like panic attacks when he's left alone. And he kind of, he wasn't doing well at daycare. So we started providing dog hikes to like, get them out, allows them to like run their errands and stuff and get some work done. Um, and then we just have other people that like an adopted high energy puppies that are like six months to eight months old now that can get out on a hike and, you know, not be like ripping whatever bedding is in their crate to shreds while they're gone. Yeah.
Collin 47:22
Yep, I the number of requests that start with, we have an adorable puppy with their typical puppy energy. I'm like, oh, man, he's gonna be this is a good way to kind of a crazy dog who needs some socialization right now? Here we go.
47:36
How about your house?
Collin 47:38
Yeah, so we have a few we have a few more steps and things that we try and do but yeah, it's it's we've been seeing the the the quarantine puppies coming into which, you know, it's an increase in service. And you've responded by by hiring some people. So what is your What is your hiring process look like? Now, maybe compared to what you expected it to look like? You know,
Mary Beth 47:59
I we're still semi new as some of my new business. And I guess it feels like we've been in business longer. I'll preface it by saying, every time I hire, I try to put the things I learned from last time into place, each round of hiring, I do the process changes. So we used to do like in person interviews, right. So we would post the job listing, they'd send us the, their resume, hopefully cover letter usually and really good at sitter will send you a cover letter to tell you why they're going to be a good pet sitter. And about their experience, I love that. And then, you know, we review those, and then we would have scheduled an in person interview and I usually would have done those at a coffee shop. And then from there, after, like, if I was like, Yes, they'd be a good fit. I would schedule like a practice, like visit with me, and then start like, getting them into the schedule by doing meet and greets, things like that. But things have changed a lot. I definitely learned a lot from not having enough steps. In my process. I felt like I want to be efficient, but I also want to do my due diligence and like ensuring that we're bringing on someone that's going to show up. Like, I had someone like not she seemed like it was going to be a great fit. She was a vet tech, and everything. And everything checked out. And she didn't show up to mean Oh, I was like what am I doing? You know? Now, um, I bit the bullet I purchased the application packet that Kristin Morrison has, she does a great job of like covering all the like first step bases. You know that questions you get some questions out The way that will like be a good like, yes or no like deciding factor, like on the front end. So what we do now is I mainly used indeed, to post I also to post a job listing, and then we post it on our website. And we've done a little we've, in the past had done some on social media, but I didn't get around to it this time. Um, so I posted on indeed reviewed the like, resumes and cover letters like normal, and from there, I would send them the application. And so I email it to them. And one of the things that she says that, like, you may feel hesitant about it, but you should just do it anyway. Because it's worked out really well for her in the past and have them snail mail it back to you. And even my husband's like, you're having them snail mail it, I have a business advisor, and he's like, what, I'm just gonna try it like grant, see if it works. And it does, it does like this is the first time I've I used it. And everyone that sent one back, we did have a couple people drop it off, which is totally, that's good, too. happy with that. But if they email it back to you, that's like a big like, he didn't follow instructions. And then, so everyone that I received an application, or I wanted to do an interview for. So we ended up doing zoom interviews this time, and I had my admin join me on the zoom interview. And we had a lot of practice doing zoom and zoom meetings over the last few months. It's like, Well, why not? You know, we'll be able to, like, spend some focused time on them and like, see them in person still, at least, you know, their mannerisms and how they, you know, speak with you things like that you get to know, like, you get a good vibe on someone, you can still get to know him well over zoom. And we did that. And we had like a list of questions that I had compiled over the years of like what we wanted to ask, we save some for an in person interview. So we did ended up doing two interviews, we did a zoom interview, where we got a lot of like the questioning out of the way. And then from there, we wanted to know that I pretty much wanted to know if we were going to hire them or not. So at that point, I did want to do a second in person interview. And, quote unquote, interview is very casual. So they came they actually came to my house met me in my front yard, and actually just adopted a new dog recently, I got I rescued the dog, too, during COVID. Um, so I meet me and we went on a walk with my new dog and my other dog. Yeah. And then I live really like my backyard. There's just a bunch of big open space. And there's woods and trails and like an abandoned golf course back there. We can go walk around on.
Collin 53:10
I like that stuff in the process, because you still get that one on one interaction, but you're also getting them connected with and seeing their dog handling skills or dog walking skills and how they're behaving on there with a dog that you know really well, because it's your own dog. Right and
Mary Beth 53:26
a dog that actually don't know that well, because I had just adopted him two weeks ago. Yeah, maybe a week prior. So I was like, This is great. Like, he and he's bigger. He's 55 pounds. He's a border collie, Golden Retriever, Meg. And he's like, freaking adorable. does have to say, um, yeah, so he, he's like, out of his element and stuff, which you know, is similar to the job because you're in and like, you're new to some dogs. So I thought that would be a good element. And he's was pulling a lot at the time like he really likes squirrels. So it's good to see like, what, you know how they reacted to that. Sure. And like, I was able to ask them, like, would you be comfortable walking a dog like him? Or two of them at the same time? Like, how would you feel about that? And so just to see how they responded to his behaviors was really helpful. And it made me so much more comfortable like seeing them interact with the dog and let alone My dog.
Collin 54:35
I'm also curious, you know, you you went from doing a lot of in house sitting and drop ins and that was an overnight How was it different this time around hiring mostly for hikes and walks what kind of skill sets Did you look for that we're different between those two?
Mary Beth 54:50
Yeah, I like that question because it was, I was looking for something very specific. I really love to go hiking and one of my favorite things to do is going to like discovering new places. And so I was, that's a big part of what we do here. And with pet sitting and dog walking and hiking all that you're always going and meeting a new client somewhere new, you have to be directionally challenged or not challenged, but the good shouldn't be directionally challenged, you can go and find, you know, where you're going, um, being able to navigate Well, you know, and I guess go back, that kind of sidetrack me, I'm just looking for someone that was up for the challenge of going on adventures, meeting new people working with dogs that they might pull you a little bit, you know, and like, Can Are you able, willing and able and will you be happy doing this? Are you do you have experience hiking? Do you like to go hiking? Like, some people say around here that they like to hike? And it's, it's more of like their experience of hiking is wearing like, you know, just some tennis shoes and like not even bringing water and like, going on like a half mile walk in the woods. But you know, we're talking about, are you willing to climb a mountain with a couple dots? And not alone? Like are it's not just Are you willing to like, are you going to be safe doing that? Like, are you going to have a good time? Or are you going to be able to handle dogs while you're doing that? Um, so someone that was, I was really looking for someone that was like outdoorsy, and able, willing, able and able to have a good time handling the dogs that need to go on a hike. Um, yeah, someone that just like, wanted to get out there and get some exercise and was going to be able to do it. Do you know how to handle a bear when they come across the bear? We have. They're everywhere. They're like raccoons here. So we'll run into a black bear on the trail. Like, you know, I see black bears, like at least once a week, you know, sometimes yard? So that's a big thing. Like, okay, what is your experience around? Like, being a bear on a trail? Have you seen a bear on a trail? What did you do?
Collin 57:22
That's why you asked those questions, right? Like, you want to get that out of the way before you get the emergency call of somebody who on a trail or something like that, before that happens. So you thinking through, what is this service? What skills does this person need? And then just, you know, ask these very, they seem basic, but you know, have you seen a bear before? That's a pretty Yes, or no question that someone's gonna be able to tell you with confidence and, and go from there.
Mary Beth 57:48
Yeah, definitely get into, like the weeds of it. And just to ensure that, like, they're gonna be able to handle themselves independently, and that kind of situation, right, and like, be okay with it, and not just be like I quit. isn't gonna happen, you never know. Like, I think a lot of people have said on this podcast, like, not everyone knows what is involved in pet sitting and dog walking, like, it does take a very specific type of person to be able to handle all the things that come with it, the elements, the different types of dogs, you know, being outside so much, you know, and encountering different things, just being able to handle it. And sometimes a dog will get in a fight, or like react crazies to another dog that we pass. And just looking for also, like, the tag along on what we were saying, just looking for someone that is up for the challenge, and just like, we'll be happy and comfortable continuing to do those things and be with the dogs and meeting a dog on their level through those things.
Collin 59:01
What has the job pool been like the people the kind of people that you've been receiving is similar different, same pre COVID.
Mary Beth 59:11
I've seen some more variety in the types of people that are applying. There's a local, there's a local, like outdoor learning school here, um, that everyone was laid off because they were doing outdoor education with kids mostly. So a lot what actually got like several applicants from them, which was interesting for people that were working there. So it's been definitely been more folks that have been laid off from another job that is sort of like outdoors he or just in general laid off from another job. So it's definitely been more than two Just so in the past, we've got no, it's just such a variety of types of applicants you get, it's really interesting. Because when you I use indeed, mostly like I said, and you'll get people that have just worked at like Wendy's and McDonald's, but then you'll get the next step of like people that have a lot of great like caretaking skills like they've been a nurse or they're in, or they have a lot of great customer service experience where they're really good with people. And they've done some pet sitting on the side before. And then you'll get also occasionally get like groomers and folks that have like, worked at a doggy daycare or boarding facility have worked with horses in the past to get on a farm. And then a lot of that text to a lot of vet techs work, do pet sitting on the side. So we do get a lot of them. So it was still all of those people. But like there was a little twist on it, because of the folks that have lost their jobs.
Collin 1:01:03
Yeah, so it sounds like it kind of opened up a little bit section of the the job pool applicants that maybe would not have applied before. And are now able to or seeking for that kind of thing. So you know, maybe a different kind of fit or just different kind of skill sets that you're that you're starting to see come through.
Mary Beth 1:01:21
Yeah, definitely one of the ladies she's, she was looking for just like a side hustle. And she said that, I mean, she had she does pet sitting on the side now, but for her side hustle was, was retail. So retail is not really booming right now. So she was looking in a different direction and a different skill set she had, I think that's where a lot of people were looking at a lot of people have done pet sitting and they have experience with animals, a lot of people have animals. So at some point, I feel almost everyone's like I could pets it, you know. So anyone that has that skill set was kind of like looking to pivot and see if they could use that, to get them through these times. Yeah, one of the ladies on it that we're bringing on, she's a camp director. And, you know, Camp didn't happen this year. So she's going to be back to work until spring of next year, like back to being really busy. So she's going to help us grow in a certain part of town that we've been wanting to grow in, and then in by the time spring rolls around ideas will be able to bring, we'll be able to offer like a really consistent job to someone else, when she goes back to
Collin 1:02:42
work through the need. And you as a business owner, being able to layer on top of these skill sets of going, Okay, this is the basic what everybody needs to have that's applying. And then because of maybe the number of applying or the diversity of people that are applying, you can start really stacking those skill sets and go, Okay, I can really fine tune exactly what I what I need right now, and to give the best service possible for my clients and get the best fit so that the person applying will be happy too.
Mary Beth 1:03:08
Yeah, definitely, I think that's a huge part is like finding someone that is a good fit in terms of like your culture of your business. You know, like a year ago, I didn't really know what the culture of the business was, I kind of had an idea of like, where I wanted it to go. But it sort of just shapes itself, by the people that you hire, and like how you work with them, and like how they interact with the clients and how to interact with each other, all of that. So I sort of was looking to someone who's going to fit that, but also that, you know, end like someone that would just fit well with them, and everyone would be comfortable with and they'd all be able to relate because they back each other up. Yeah, it's important to have someone that like fits that mold.
Collin 1:03:59
And know and know that going in when you're hiring people of that whether you know it or not like your business, as a culture. It has a way of operating and it has a it is its as its own personality. And so thinking may take some time to outline that or ask if you currently have staff members, how would you define our culture? You know, and what does that look like to you so that you do get a good bid.
Mary Beth 1:04:23
And something else that I have, over time have figured out? Yeah, communication has always been really important to me. From day one of starting the business, I just want to be super transparent with people that work with me and you know, the people that you know, the folks that our clients, I want to make sure everyone's on the same page. And like I started asking for more feedback from our clients. And that kind of helped me shape. Like, this is who we're looking for, because this is what they like from us. And the always the big thing is We love how well you communicate with us. We always get updates were always like, we don't have to contact you, you contact us. You know, before this day, like before, we're taking care of them after in between all the time, so we're always touching base with them. So, yeah, that's the big thing that our clients are looking forward to is I wanted to think about that, like, what type of person do they want? And who would fit us and like, also the on the ground skills of the job.
Collin 1:05:32
There's somebody listening right now, and they're thinking about or looking into hiring right now, what advice would you give to them?
Mary Beth 1:05:40
Yeah, I would say, you know, if you're thinking about hiring or wanting to hire, just do it. Like, sometimes I hold myself back by, like, overthinking it. Um, so it's, you really just learn from experience. So it's just do it, but also have, you know, standards, things that you're looking for, and do not give those up and have a lot of high standards for yourself. And don't just, if you're busy, if you're so busy, you have to hire, don't just like, go with someone that will work, just take the time to really feel out the situation, put the steps in place to be able to like find someone that is going to stick around for a while, you know, you can never really know, like how long they're gonna stick around. But the more you, the more you like trust your gut about someone, it's more likely that they're going to be a good investment for your business.
Collin 1:06:48
Thank you so much for coming on and giving us an update on how anti AMS is doing and all the exciting things that you're working on and the people that you're you're bringing on and the lessons that you've learned through COVID. If people want to get connected all along, see the updates that you guys are posting all the time? How can they do that? Yeah,
Mary Beth 1:07:06
yeah, yeah, thanks for having me on, it's been fun to share a little update. So we're on Instagram, it's really easy way to communicate with us. So at ntm pet care on Instagram, you can find us there. It's pretty easy to respond to messages. And we we tend to post a lot of stories. So you can see what we're doing like day to day, what we're up to, we're usually out in the woods hiking with the dog, and trying to interact a little bit with our clients on there in our community. But we are we post a little bit about our team, like on the you know, in the feed, and some of our favorite things we try to do is try to start sharing a little bit more like stories of specific dogs that we that we work with, so you can kind of get an idea of what types of stuff what we're up to there. Yeah.
Collin 1:07:58
Yeah, always exciting and really cool, fun photos of dogs hiking in the woods and beautiful places there. So again, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on today.
Mary Beth 1:08:06
Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me, Collin.
Collin 1:08:09
as business owners, we're still trying to unwind from the tangled mess that COVID has brought upon our industry and the globe. One of the things that is continuing to change is the hiring process. And as you've heard from both Mary Beth and from Amber, their processes have changed and they're glad for it. They've been forced by COVID to increase the number of questions increase the number of hoops that people have to jump through before they bring them on board and, and they're getting better candidates for those positions because of it. So we want to know how hiring has been for you. Through this process. What have you changed because of COVID? Will you still stick with those? As things begin to open back up? Check out the links in the show notes or on our website to get connected with us and let us know how hiring has been for you. Thank you so much for listening today to this episode. And if you found it valuable, head on over to petsitter confessional.com Ford slash support and check out our Patreon page. It's a way to directly support us and get directly connected. We will talk to you soon
