503: The Subtle Art of Dog Behavior with Fanna Easter
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Are you struggling to understand a dog's anxious or reactive behavior? Fanna Easter, owner of Positive Pooch Behavior, dives into the nuances of canine anxiety, distinguishing between general anxiousness and separation anxiety. Fanna emphasized the importance of addressing the root causes rather than just managing symptoms, highlighting the role of pet sitters in observing and responsibly handling these behaviors. She also discussed the critical nature of professional collaboration between pet sitters and behavior consultants to ensure the best outcomes for pets. This insightful conversation provides essential strategies and knowledge for pet care professionals aiming to improve their understanding and management of complex canine behaviors.
Main topics:
Differentiating Anxiety and Fear
Managing Pet Owner Expectations
Role of Pet Sitters
Behavioral Interventions and Techniques
Professional Collaboration and Education
Main takeaway: Dogs should have choices. It's not fair to put them in situations where they feel trapped. Letting them choose can make a world of difference in their behavior.
About our guest:
Fanna Easter, a passionate advocate for positive and effective dog training, brings over 20 years of experience to her role as a professional dog trainer and behavior consultant. As the founder of Positive Pooch Training & Behavior, Fanna is committed to fostering harmonious relationships between pets and their owners through science-based, fear-free training methods. She holds a prestigious CPDT-KA certification and is a recognized member of the Association of Professional Dog Trainers (APDT).
Fanna's expertise is not only in addressing common behavioral challenges but also in specialized areas such as aggression and anxiety. Her approach is always tailored to meet the unique needs of each pet and their family, ensuring a compassionate, comprehensive, and effective training plan. In addition to her training services, Fanna is a dedicated educator, offering a wealth of resources through workshops, seminars, and online content to help pet owners understand and effectively shape their dogs' behavior.
Whether it's through one-on-one sessions, group classes, or her insightful articles, Fanna's commitment to the well-being of dogs and the education of their owners shines through. Her work is driven by a deep belief in the transformative power of positive reinforcement and a commitment to creating lasting positive changes in the lives of pets and their families.
Links:
Email: fannae@yahoo.com
https://www.facebook.com/fanna.easter
https://www.facebook.com/positivepooch
https://positivepooch.net/e-courses/
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
dog, behavior, pet sitters, separation anxiety, talk, reactivity, guardian, working, walk, pet, people, client, love, aggression, good, situation, Fanna, conversation, gift, barking
SPEAKERS: Fanna E., Collin
Collin 00:02
Welcome to pet sitter confessional. Today, we're brought to you by time to pass and pet perennials. Talk behavior is a topic that we actually encounter as pet sitters and dog walkers way more than we may actually consider. And there's been a lot of changes in how to handle behaviors with dogs, and how we react to them. And we respond to them and the resources and teachings out there as well for pet parents that we need to get them connected with. We're super excited to have Fanna Easter owner of positive pooch behavior on the show to talk about, what do we do in those situations? How do we engage and respond to anxious separation anxiety, reactive dogs in the actual visits, because we don't always have all the time in the world. So Fanna super excited to have you on the show had the immense pleasure of seeing you speak again at the Texas pet sitters Association Conference. For those who haven't been able to see you talk or know about your work. Can you please tell us a bit more about all that you do?
Fanna E. 00:56
Absolutely. I'm so excited to be here. So yes, I okay. I'm already getting excited to talk about all the things but first off, I'm Fanna Easter. I live down in South Louisiana, hence the accent. I have been in the dog training or training dogs for like over 30 years. So yes, I'm one of those old ones. I have multiple certifications. Because I do believe that certifications and proving were your knowledge is important. But I can have all the certifications in the world. But what gives me the most strict credit is that I have bull terriers. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I currently I specialize in separation anxiety, and compulsive disorders and really, really tough cases. I love that stuff. Well,
Collin 01:46
and what our listeners don't know is that you have an amazing hair color that they really can't appreciate. And it's often so bold Terriers and an amazing hairstyle so we're we've got it all in one complete package to your family.
Fanna E. 02:04
It's various shades of blue I always joke and say it's a mood ring it just
Collin 02:13
well Oh, that's fascinating to think of just what you would do in this way. Wait a minute, hold on runaway come back with a different hair color picker. Okay, let's see. You So speaking of behaviors, you know, you you do focus on those those tough cases. And one thing that I want to start off by asking you about was really the difference between anxiousness and separation anxiety, because I know as a pet sitter, that's one word that I hear so often these days is a pet owner will say, can you take care of my pet, I need you to stay with them. 24/7 Because they, quote, have separation anxiety. So for so that we can start having that conversation and maybe help educate people from your perspective fan of what's that difference between an anxious dog and separation anxiety? Absolutely,
Fanna E. 03:02
to break it down. Anxious is its own animal. It's basically the way the dog was responding to their environment. And the word separation anxiety is just where the a the anxiety is happening, right. And the way I like to explain anxiousness is because I think it's a buzzword now, right now, especially after the pandemic is that anxiousness is it stems from fear, it's a symptom of fear, right? Fear, something falls in scared you. anxiousness is always looking and it's in assuming something is going to fall and scare you. That's the difference between fear and anxiousness and anxious is does develop with a dog as chronically fearful. Now, you take this anxious dog that's learned that scary situations, make them anxious, and then you can address it to separation anxiety, or reactivity towards other dogs or people and things like that. Separation anxiety, oh, especially after the pandemic, so many well, meaning people have so many definitions. But really separation anxiety is considered a medical disorder. And it is a panic attack. It's just like a panic attack in humans. The dog is unable to stay home alone. And when they it's it's not that they're scared, people are not going to come that other people are going to come home, they don't know what to do in their home alone. They just don't know what to do. So they panic. And it is normally I will tell you I would rather work with I wouldn't say I rather I read I love separation anxiety, but they can get quicker results with a dog aggression, human aggression and compulsive disorder. Separation ad is a beast. It's a beast. So use that term loosely. This is not something so this is not a disorder that people want with their dogs. Trust me.
Collin 04:55
I love how you even walk through some of the language there. Have you said it's not that they're worried or scared that they're people aren't coming home, it's that they don't know what to do with themselves. Because even that is starting to make a fine line and distinction and people's brains because I know people will say, Oh, my dog loves me so much. They just love me so much. They don't like it whenever I leave.
Fanna E. 05:20
Oh, humans, oh, humans, we want that so bad, don't we. And what's interesting is when I work with people with dogs is separation anxiety, when we start to teach the dog that you can go in another room where you don't have to panic, you know, when your person leaves, people really take it hard. They're like, Oh, my gosh, do they not love me anymore. And I'm like, you've got it's, I know, it's like, you've got to teach the person. It's funny, because my partner is a human mental health clinician. And so he helps me navigate this piece. But it's hard to teach people to know your dog still loves you, but you need to function by yourself to without your dog panicking. So it's a whole dynamic. It's a whole big dynamic. I love it. I love it.
Collin 06:06
It is and that's an aspect of this too, of going it's it's a holistic thought process working through this and it is very touchy, because you're right when people say that, like they, in some instances, the person the owner can love the fact that their dog is responds this way, because they love coming home and seeing the dog, the excitement, the wiggles, the happy peas, you know, the spinning everything, it feeds them and their emotions as well. And so for us to come in and say, No, right? It's like it's an attack against them at the personal level, isn't it? It
Fanna E. 06:40
is, it really is. And usually when people's get getting involved, because it is very self reinforcing to the human, that their dog loves them to that extent. But once I understand why the dog is doing this, then it makes more sense. But it's it's just, it's an interesting dynamic. But usually people bring me in when the dog is neighbors are complaining about the barking or the dog is starting to self harm or their environment, which is the house but it's so interesting. It's so complex. And it's so emotional. Oh, my goodness, I can tell you clients, I tell them, I said one thing I can guarantee you is you're gonna cry. It's very, very, very emotional.
Collin 07:21
Well, so let's say we do get that phone call from a client who says, you know, I'm needing help with this again, at from a pet sitter perspective going, somebody says, I need you to, you know, because one thing that happens for us Fanna is they want us they say their dog has separation anxiety, they quote unquote, can't be left alone. So I need you to stay with me 24/7? If that's not a service that we offer, how can we start having a conversation with them? Maybe some good questions that we should ask to start finding that line and maybe other resources to know, okay, I need to refer out or I need to get them connected with something else.
Fanna E. 07:54
First of all, I want pet sitters and dog walker walkers to know that behavior consultants like me, we're there for you guys. And I don't want you to have to navigate these difficult conversations by yourself. So if you get to a rut, and you're not sure, definitely reach out to folks, you can email me I'd be more than happy to answer. But I would say the biggest thing is, first question I asked is when a guardian is like, Hey, this is what's going on. My dog has separation anxiety, have you spoken to your veterinarian about it? That's the first step. Because with with separation anxiety, probably 90% of dogs need to be on on some type of behavior medication, because it is a literal panic attack. Right? Then the second piece is, okay, so if you've not talking to your veteran you have Have you contacted a certified separation anxiety trainer, because this is not a walk that you can do alone. And because it really negatively affects your quality of life. And then you can kind of see from there, I really, I don't want to put the burden on pet sitters to say, Well, what happens what goes on? I don't want you guys to be able to determine that because that's a slippery slope. I would say we've toss it over to someone like me, or other seasides. We offer free discovery calls, we can determine if it's steppings or not, and kind of go forward from there, and then put a protocol together for pet sitters, but it's yes, I hope I answered your question and roundabout way but
Collin 09:24
it is a hard discussion to have, especially when we're sitting there and you know, we may know okay, this is a medical diagnosis. This is this is there are some there may be signs here to have that conversation. But ultimately, if it is truly that or if they are seeking needing a diagnosis for this or they are struggling with this, we need to rope in a whole lot more people to make it part of that team, right. I'm going okay, me just saying I'm going to be there for 24/7 service like that, because at the end of the day, that's not really addressing the problem and I think that that is where, where we can kind of stumble sometimes of if this owner is truly struggling with this, how can we actually truly address this and manage it in a healthier manner and get to the root of this, instead of just putting band aids on it, because up until this point, the owners band aid may have been, I never leave. I never go anywhere. And now all of a sudden, my uncle in California has died. And I need to get on a plane, right? And I'm gonna be gone for three days. Oh, no. Right. So it's, it's going, let's actually work on addressing this, as opposed to just putting band aids over it.
Fanna E. 10:34
Exactly. It's called management and the dog in management does work. But it eventually does fail to your point of Oh, my gosh, there's a death in the family and I have to go, I think, you know, being able to not to suspend absences, which means not leaving the dog home alone. It's a great idea. And we're able to get traction and teach the dog what to do instead. But you have to do both just spending absences of lead, never leaving the dog home alone, but not teaching the dog what to do. When home alone, during controlled emissions. That's the key. That's the cake. And if a dog has to be left home alone, I cannot stress this enough. Some set of guardians are like I have to work, go to your veterinarian and give the dog behavior medication. So they don't can they come alone? That's the first thing don't walk run? Well, I
Collin 11:30
know there are some there's some viewpoints on on medications and feeling like because again, this is an emotional aspect of I don't want to quote unquote, medicated dog. I don't like seeing them that way. I don't like the you know, but understanding okay, we're actually are, like you said, managing quality of life for both dog and person at this time. And it is a yes. And of going what how do we pull all these things together as resources together to make sure this is manageable and workable. And I think another part of this too fair that I know you've talked about before is just, it can be consistent with what that person is trying to get to.
Fanna E. 12:07
Absolutely. And I think a lot of people, it's a tough conversation. And I never want to judge the Guardian, because they really do think they're doing the best they can with what they have. And sometimes guardians feel well, I'll just put the dog in a crate and the dog is safe. But what is safe, the dog is still drooling point there in purchasing one of these aka Charles backup Alcatraz crates where they can escape, right? So I mean, I had a client and she's like, well, the dogs in a crate, He's drooling. He's Pauline, but he's safe. And then like, Well, do you think you would maybe possibly talk to your veterinarian about Medicaid and she's like, I don't know if I want to do that. But the dog is now panicking so long and so much, it's great that he's grinding down his teeth to uphold, and then like, what is the quality of life for the dog. So some sometimes we have to remove ourselves out of that picture and think of what's best for the dog. So it's very, very, very complicated.
Collin 13:06
And so in that complication, I know that so let's maybe a situation here let's say we're working with a client who is working with a certified behaviorist and they're working with some medications and and our role now is to come in the middle of the home to let that dog out to go to go pee. Maybe walk us through some things we need to be considerate of watchful of while we're in that home with a dog that may know is on in in management of true separation anxiety, so that we know when to alert people if there's a problem, or how do we can be consistent with that person.
Fanna E. 13:37
I think what separation anxiety usually if you guys are coming in and the dogs probably hopefully, there's behavior medication on board, the dog should be alert. The dog should meet you at the door. And or in a crate the dog should come out of the gate easily go to the bathroom and potty you should not see any drooling, falling blood. Yes, I'm the one that gets all those pictures. And the dog should still, as we say down here in the South have that there swatter V, that little essence of happiness, but they're able to settle a lot faster. That's the appropriate amount of behavior medication. And that's what should look for. If you see a dog that's not going out of their crate, a little tongues hanging out, something's up and definitely reach out to the Guardian, for sure. Yeah, and
Collin 14:30
that that takes us having that comp those conversations beforehand. Because again, we're we're now trying to manage and through this entire process of going what's new baseline, right like what we've hit and peaks or hit and valleys we're trying to maybe manage they may be working through again that we've talked about that complicated facet of all this of they're working on different techniques with their trainer and behaviors. They're working on different medications with their vet and the whole team is working together. We are extra eyes, ears, hands on sight on this. We're giving reports on what we're seeing. And so the We need to be educated on that stuff as well, too, so that we know what language to use appropriately. And really, like you said, when to reach out for more help. Absolutely.
Fanna E. 15:09
And if you're not sure reach out to the Guardian, because I can tell you I know my side. I know the veterinarians, we really do make sure that the Guardians know, hey, this is what you should look out for. So if you're like, oh, I don't know, is this normal for the stock as the guardian, that's the best place, they're kind of the, the central of everything. And then you can kind of say, like, the like the little central piece of were all the little spokes that kind of feed into the guardian. So they're the most knowledgeable, and probably the easier to access. Yeah.
Collin 15:38
And that's where, you know, we have that immense power of having photos and videos, and we can do FaceTime, or we can do things through WhatsApp, or we can get real time touch points with the client when we're in the home to show those observations, because we're helping document that when we have concerns. I've been in those situations where it's like, I don't know how to describe this in three sentences. So video time, right? Like, it really helps that process
Fanna E. 16:06
a lot. It does, and it helps people like me to, you know, so maybe the guardian can send it over to me, and I can take a peek in between clients and say, Okay, this is what I'm seeing. And I can tell you to have a guardian. And I love my pet sitter, I worship her, I will move my whole vacation flight everything to accommodate her. And so when she's noticing little things like that, it just reinforces to me that how much I love her. So yes, I can totally, I would absolutely say sending texts and emails and and videos. Yeah, guardians will love you for that.
Collin 16:46
I know, we've been kind of talking back and forth again. And maybe we've hit on a few of these already about the anxiousness. Separation anxiety, I didn't want to have you have an opportunity to talk about maybe some misconceptions that you see people have around those? And really what, what are the maybe some unfortunate impacts that those have on the outcome of the working with the dog and the person? I wouldn't say even though
Fanna E. 17:07
it's like a higher level, instead of just focusing more on separation anxiety, I would say anxious behavior in general, because that's a whole bunch of different things. Yeah. I think that there is a misconception. And I know when I was at the Texas pet sitters conference, there was a really good question, and it kind of hit home with me, and I kinda want to bring this back is, when you're dealing with anxious behavior, you really need to address the cause the root cause of what's causing the dog to become anxious. Never assume, because there are people out there that say, well, we'll just teach the dog an immediate skill to tackle this anxiousness. And that's really not addressing the root cause. It's just giving, it's more of a distraction. My example is, is if you're scared to be home alone, and if somebody says, Oh, go and lay in the recliner for an extended extended amount of time, does that really stop the negative thoughts in your head? No. So that's a difference between obedience and behavior behavior addresses the root cause of that anxiousness. So I would say definitely, that's a good thing to remember, instead of placing in a crate, or a down stay, and things like that address the calls or they'll never go away, it'll always linger. Because
Collin 18:23
it is easy for us. And I find myself doing this too, of just kind of throwing out these kinds of flippant suggestions, right, of like, oh, you're having this, we'll just do this right? And we have to be hyper aware of, are we just maybe prolonging the presence of this through those suggestions, without really internalizing that doing our research, getting help getting those tools and resources pulled together? So that when we are making those or when we're talking with a client, we are actually understanding what's going on? Because, you know, I a lot of things like, oh, you know, just have white noise, just use a lick map, just use these that, you know, it's like, Well, are we just making a broader, you know, like you said, like, it's kind of like this broader like environmental candle, right? We're just going to build this big candle around them and keep them more and more protected without actually addressing the true anxiousness about
Fanna E. 19:14
exactly management has its place, it's managing the behaviors preventing it from happening, right. It has its place, but it's not sustainable. So yeah, you can only provide so many licky mats and you can only talk so many treats if the behavior is not improving. address it, address it address it. Have
Collin 19:33
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Collin 19:54
you're looking for new PET scanning software, give time to pet a try. Listeners of our show we'll say 50% off Your first three months by visiting timed cut.com/confessional. So does that mean that you from your perspective fan of going, do you go into that and put the dog in different situations to see what the triggers are? Or how do you go about addressing or finding that root? Cause?
Fanna E. 20:18
That's a good question. I've been around the block enough that I don't need to see what the behavior happens in that situation. I already know so many clients are like, Oh, let me show you let me expose my dog to its worst fear. So you can see his reaction like them and and, and, and, and to know, I already know, no, I'm good. So what that is, is for me, it's just asking open ended questions and digging through to find out what is the usual the causes a lot of I'm the same way. I mean, like, there's my mama, my doggy mama brain and my dog trainer brain, right. And my mom, my brain always wins out the dog trainer brain. And sometimes guardians are like, they get superstitious, it's this, it's that and then when I wear my red shoes, and my blue shirt is when separation anxiety is worse, and and I have to navigate you through all of those things to find out really what the trigger is. And then I know and whatever the trigger is, and we can start to behavior mod.
Collin 21:16
Program. Yeah, the superstitions are so they're so sticky, aren't they, they're so sticky. And we've talked, we talked with people, and they're on their third fourth dog, you know, they've had they've had dogs for 3040 years or whatever, and, and they are still impacted by that very first dog, who the one time they shut the door did the thing. And now it's like, it's amazing how long this and I can't even imagine the kinds of things that you hear that people try.
Fanna E. 21:44
I spend a lot of time convincing people that it's not separation anxiety. And I have some clients that are adamant. And mainly, this is not something you want. There's nothing I love more in the world as telling somebody it's not separation anxiety, because it's this is not what you want, you know, so but I think it's just an once you have to have the navigate that conversation sometimes multiple times, and explain why it's not those triggers, the triggers are different, that it sinks in and then we can address the behavior. Yeah,
Collin 22:16
it is breaking through those barriers and those misunderstandings, right it because it's being patient with them through that through those conversations, right. There's
Fanna E. 22:24
emotion there. It's emotion. That's why they're becoming superstitious. That's why they're getting nervous. It's just emotion. And once we can kind of work through that, then we're good. It's I'm the same way with my dogs. That's why I have to hire a behavior consultant. Because I don't see clearly I but my mama brains in and I'm superstitious, too. And my friends are like yeah, Fanna that's not it. I'm like, Are you sure? And they're like,
Collin 22:50
but the one time with the thing and the stuff I'm on?
Fanna E. 22:54
And I'm like somebody like me, I'm like, it could be this and I I don't what is it the old saying when I hear hoofbeats? I think zebras not necessarily horses
Collin 23:09
well, and I know another big aspect that you've talked about and actually your presentation was was on a lot of this at the most recent conference was really on. A lot of you talked more about reactivity, aggression, some more anxiousness involved in that. So those two big words there I just said reactive aggression. From your perspective again, Fanna. Talk to us about the differences between those
Fanna E. 23:31
your major majorly different reactivity is an overreaction it to a situation. It's I sometimes we can call it big feelings, right? Before a situation, it's the I'm the same way, that's probably why I do well. It's like I see something and I make a mountain out of a molehill, basically, that's more of what reactivity is. Aggression is how a dog can respond to a threat, two totally different things. Aggression is more of, I'm going to defend myself and I'm going to stop whatever is going to hurt me or what I perceive as a threat. Aggression is a label that's tossed around within our industry way too much. And dogs have been labeled and unfortunately have faced these consequences of us just throwing that word out. It is a symptom of a behavior, it is not a label aggression. So we activity aggression, two totally different things.
Collin 24:36
When you talk about it does get thrown out a lot. You know, we we encountered. We had a client who took their dog to a groomer and they said, you know, in the paperwork that said something about aggression, while they were thinking reactivity, and they got these mixed up, they said aggression, and then they were blacklisted from that groomer because they don't take aggressive dogs, obviously for their safety, but then they had had a really hard time getting back into any other groomers because they all talk right? And now trying to convince somebody of like, no, no, it's not aggression, it's leisure activity. It's this other stuff was a real struggle. And there was that, that damage of that language, right. And we can really do a lot of damage to both the client and their pets in the public perception when we start using that word aggression inappropriately.
Fanna E. 25:23
I rarely, if ever say aggression. The only one that I would trust to label aggression would be a veterinary behaviorist. I think there are behaviors, you think about aggression. Dogs have a right to take up for themselves. I think that's something we forget, you know, we think we're gonna trim your nails and you're gonna like it and the dogs growling and snarling because they don't like it. And they're basically saying, Please stop. We would do it too, if we were scared. So think of it that way. Dogs I don't it's a such a small percentage, and over the 30 years, but dogs don't walk around trying to figure out who they can just be up to, you know, maybe they have an inappropriate playstyle. But if dogs start fighting or people because they just don't know anything better, they just don't know what to do instead.
Collin 26:13
Right? Well, so on that reactivity, maybe we'll dive into that just a little bit more as far as common types or what that looks like kind of on from from the outward perspective of us looking in.
Fanna E. 26:24
reactivity is a dog let's talk about sound phobia. Maybe a dog that scared of sounds that's a dog that startle super easily maybe drops to the ground looks around hypervigilant? Where did that sound come from and they don't recover fast, doesn't recover fast means it takes them over 30 seconds to several minutes to recover, which means that they go back to baseline and just been there and they're their normal cells of being able to not be stressed. But then again, what are the cortisol levels? See, I can go down a rabbit hole on this, even though the dog is like, Okay, I think I'm better their cortisol, cortisol levels are probably through the roof. But that's reactivity. They are the dog that you walk into a home as a pet sitter, you reach down to pet them and the dog takes off running barks, and then comes back that conflicted behavior. Like I want you to pet me but I'm not sure if Bark Bark Bark Bark. It's almost an overreaction to any situation of them being worried is kind of what it is. I
Collin 27:29
know one that gets thrown around a lot in the dog walking world is the word leash reactive. And, you know and having those conversations it's always funny with some clients when you know we may take them out on a walk and we come back and we say i i think you may have a little bit of leisure activity here. And the response to the fan is almost always what they love the least they're not scared of it.
Fanna E. 27:50
Funny their fault. reactivity is a beast and I'm gonna say it and dog trainers and behaviors are probably you'd be like, Oh my gosh, whatever. I would say my role has most definitely contributed to leash reactivity. Because many times we would say you have to socialize your dog, which means you have to they have to meet 100 new people and 100 new dogs socialise, that pendulum swung too far. Now separation anxiety is teaching a dog how to react in a situation safely and comfortably and be able to process through, we got to a point that we're like, you have to meet this person, that person that dog and the dogs like I don't want to, they can't get away. So then now they're reactive. My My thing is, when you go to the grocery store, do you go up to everybody in the grocery store and say, Hey, I'm Santa. How are you? You don't right. socially accepted. You push a little buggy Yes, we say buggy down here in the south. You push a little buggy and you give room you let people move out the way you push a little buggy if you're in line you talk if not you smile and you move on that all dogs need to know how to navigate the world they don't have to shake hands because when you put them in that situation they can't get away they're going to become aggressive because they don't want to I'm scared Yeah,
Collin 29:07
they're they're trying to communicate that this situation is not okay with me. And right and I think too often you're right we are the owners can say come on now you need to be okay with this. You need to be and at the end it's going no they have they do have a right and we are there we are their guardians whether they're active guardians or not. They're we're advocates for them in those situations. Absolutely.
Fanna E. 29:31
And dogs should have choices. I mean they don't have choices we choose when they eat breakfast they we choose when they go out unless they ask we choose who they get to meet and dogs should have a choice if a dog is like you know what, I don't want to go say to that dog. I don't want that person to come over and pet me just look at the owner and you know and say you know what are the person said you know what, this is not feeling it today. As a pet sitter. I would not just let people randomly come up and pet a dog. You can just smile walk the other way. It just it the dog will thank you for it give them choices and magic will happen in their behavior.
Collin 30:07
It's about building that trust, right? Yeah, we we work on training with with our staff of Jessica smile and you're gonna say no pets today? No, that's a big, big smile and you're gonna nod your head and you're gonna walk the other way. Because if we do say, Oh no, they're reactive or No, no, they're aggressive like all of a sudden like we're gonna get into a whole ball of wax here we just need to keep moving. And I've almost we've had a few people who've been very insistent who have tried to reach down pet the dog I'm this I'm really close to just having like, a picture from a hand reconstructive surgery on my phone to show people and be like, No, thank you. We're good here. It just, you know, really guys we need some space here. It
Fanna E. 30:48
becomes a challenge to the people have just left me and like adamant that Decatur proved that dogs love that. I tell my clients that if you're you know someone's you are really wants to pet your dog. I say we're training and they put my hand up and for some reason it stops people in their tracks because we've conditioned people to service dogs, you know, pet service dogs, then the question comes out of what are you training for makes something up? I one that works really well and people will run from is cadaver dog. Yeah, you can walk a cute little Frenchie, and a cadaver dog and training people get grossed out and run it and you're like, oh, okay, you and they're gone. Teenagers drug detection, they're gonna make something up and not seems to work and it prevents that awkward human exchange of No Go away, don't touch but I can it just breaks that ice. And that way your neighbors don't think you're crazy. You're a little Frenchie is trained to find it people.
Collin 31:57
I'm taking some notes right now.
Fanna E. 32:02
It's very rewarding to you when you could just see their facial expressions. So yeah.
Collin 32:09
It is about us guarding that, that that really viewing that interaction is as very impactful for that dog. Because we have to understand that, you know, a dog's life and learned behavior is a culmination of multiple experiences. And as you've already pointed out to sometimes that dog feel like it has no other choice but to do something or but to react or but but to lash out. And we need to go. When we respect the signals, the signs, the dog doesn't really learn to get to that point and shortcut that that progression of communication.
Fanna E. 32:44
Exactly. I always say, you know, puppies don't come with a little USB port, where we can just kind of put in and do a download of these are all the human behaviors that you should be okay with, know that socialization, and then that's where food comes in, or treats or what are or, or play or whatever it is to reinforce that this makes good things happen. And as the puppy or the, you know, the adult dog or the adolescent dog maneuvers through situations, they learn, this is safe. That's socialization and specimens, and they have a choice, and you will back them up on that choice.
Collin 33:18
What are some common things that you see that people do because they think it's going to help or alleviate that reactivity, those responses, but they actually don't earn or not actually getting to the core of the issue there.
Fanna E. 33:32
I think probably the biggest thing I see is ignoring it. Or it's like the two polar opposites ignoring it thinking it'll go away, or thinking and if I just put the dog in the situation, he will get over it. And we call that flooding. And that's a dog that doesn't like other dogs, so I'm going to bring him to the dog park. This is the dog that doesn't like other people, so I'm going to bring them to a Mardi Gras parade. This is the dog that doesn't like sounds so I'm going to bring them to a festival that is flooding that is like somebody's throat you don't know how to swim and someone's throwing you into the deep end to figure it out. It is tramatic it is traumatic and it will blow up every time
Collin 34:16
especially when the owner or whoever's working with the dog thinks that oh the problems like the barking right the problem is the barking so I'm going to do something to inhibit the barking in that situation so that they just learn to suppress that and be okay there right it's like so it can there's so many different levels there where people truly don't understand what the issue and instead of because a lot of people think like you've started off talking about my dog needs to be okay at the festival. My dog needs to be okay going to the fairgrounds or going to Mardi Gras or going to the big dog park they need to be okay with that because look all the other dogs they're perfectly fine. Why isn't my dog like that? So I'm gonna make them be that by you
Fanna E. 34:56
guys. That doesn't exist. I'm older so I knew last year I don't know if you guys There's no last the last thing does not exist. I don't see Lafayette, I've never seen a Lastly, we have our we call them bomb proof dogs that can pretty much take anything. So that again, if you circle back to choices, right, if the dog does not want to be at the farmers market or whatever it is the dogs choice and that is okay. That is okay. And in I once had a client that purchased a dog to go and play with other dogs at the lake and the dog hated it. It was attacking other dogs. And the gentleman had had a rough time. And he actually wanted to rehome this dog and was adamant that we teach the dog that they have to be okay. And I'm like, it's not going to ever work. It's like teaching somebody that an introvert that's like, I don't want to go to parties. But I'm going to make you go to a party that's not fair to that person. And it shouldn't be fair, it shouldn't. We shouldn't put a dog in that situation. And to circle back around, we get stuck on the barking that is not the paws. The barking. It's the panic of being in the situation. The barking is the symptom. Yeah.
Collin 36:03
Yeah, I see that all the time where people have a dog that's barking and they think, Oh, I'm just going to do XYZ, right? Insert name of tool, whatever, right and go that'll stop them. Right, that'll that done. Problem solved. Right? And what the dog has learned now and correct me if I'm wrong fan is just like, Okay, well, I can't bark. What else can I do in the situation? Right? Yeah, exactly.
Fanna E. 36:25
Oh, by because now you'd be sickly chicken, the warning system off, and you've inhibited that dog in. The thing about punishment is and I know, Magothy would rile people up, you talk about punishment and dog training. I'm an old crossover trainer. I've been here long enough that I used to use other training methods and the 90s I switched over. And so I know both worlds, I'll never go back to the older methods. But I really do believe that punishment is out of desperation. People just want it to stop. And the thing with punishment is is it's very reinforcing to the person who's doing the punishing, not to the Punisher, right. So if you're frustrated, and you're punishing the behavior, that it's because you're so you're just like, it's gonna stop, you're to that point. And when you're to that point, you have to stop and rethink because you're reinforcing your behavior. And you just taking it home that dog. Woof, woof.
Collin 37:29
It's, that's you talking about deep psychology of what people do and why that comes from of going. Before I do something. Let me check my motivations. Before I engage in this, where am I coming from? Is this purely an emotional response? Am I Oh, I don't know, reacting out of this, you know, and just like I'm trying to, because then you're never really getting to that point under either of you, just
Fanna E. 37:57
spinning out of control. And so when someone comes to me and says, I'm using these kind of training devices, I don't judge because I'm like, they're to the point, you know, and so we can make some things a little bit easier. And I think that's probably why I get worked up when I see people that promote these different training methods. And it's like they're, it's not good punishment will not stop the behavior, it will not it will suppress it. I always say it's like getting a speeding ticket, you get a speeding ticket. What happens if it's a normally speeding stick ticket, you slow down for a little while, right? You're like me, then you start to speed up, but then you slow down where you get the ticket. And then after a while, if you don't get a ticket again, you just be right back up. It does not teach the behavior it suppresses. So why put your dog through something like this if it's not going to permanently change the behavior.
Collin 38:46
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Fanna E. 40:16
not talking about human and dog dog first given me I mean, don't be here if they're reactive is anything quick moving fast in a way, if a dog is just running away, moving away barking, body ears back, that is dog that is uncomfortable. And then I think the one that confuses most people's that conflicted behavior Hi, pet me. These pet me three times now scared run back backward bookmark bookmark, link those back up for another pet. If that happens, and dogs conflicted they don't know what to do. I want to be petted. But I don't know what to do. Now we'll circle to the human peace, because I think that is probably to me more important. We can send a dog into a spiral with our behavior. If a dog into reactivity or confliction, when we move too fast movement is a big trigger reactive dogs bathroom and have humans reaching for walking through the house quickly. That type of a thing. The best thing you can do when you meet a new dog egg, ignore them and drop treats towards the dog and not near you. They do not need to come to you. dog learns person makes good things happen. I can trust this person because this person is not going to reach out to me like a scary monster. But you've got the other emotional piece. You've got the Guardians going, why are you not petting my dog? Why are you not my dog. That's when you talk into the Guardian and say I'm just making friends, I want your dog to know that I'm like the best thing in the world. I make cheese happen and I can be trusted. So you're doing all those things that want watching the dog's behavior, managing your foot, then comforting the markets. It
Collin 42:03
is it is hard when you come in, especially for that first time that new client consultation or meet and greet, and the client reaches to drag the dog towards you, right? And I've had to put my hands up and go no, no, it's fine. Meeting new people is hard. I takes me a while to warm up and make friends. So it's okay, we just leave them there. And you and I are just going to have this conversation right and just focus all direction back on them. Because then it's like, okay, then you are able to accomplish that if nope, full conversation attention on human and out of court, I may be watching body language, dropping those treats further away from me, and just talking to the person and then explaining, okay, this is what I'm doing. I'm doing it. And we're just going to be here for just a little bit, we're gonna sit and do this. And then that way, whenever they're on camera watching you at your next visit, when they're not there, and they see you ignoring the dog and just throwing the treats into the other room. They're already clued into what exactly you're doing and why it's important. Yeah, play
Fanna E. 42:56
and the dog is like you're safe. I love you, you understand what I'm trying to tell you. And in then you'll start to see the dog, close that gap between you and ma'am. And listen to me Never. And that's okay. It's the dogs choice as a pet sitter is can I get in here? Can I take the dog out, say around the house safely? Can I bring them out safely? Can I bring them back in safely? That's the goal. And if it's treats, who cares? You
Collin 43:25
talked about the goal. And that's just where my brain went is, is what's our goal? And what's the what are the clients expectations? And what's the goal of that visit? Because yeah, if we're coming in, then we have a dog who is having those conflicted behaviors who is moving quickly away from us who's bolting right going to try to get away from us quickly. Maybe a dog walk isn't going to happen for those first couple of times. Right? So we need to talk with the client and readjust recalibrate what their expectations are. Because we that happens so often. I need you to for a dog walk and you're going to talk walk and I needed a dog walk and you didn't dog walk and why didn't you dog walk? It's like, Well, did you see the camera? Right? Did you see the dog coming for me and then bleeding for it's like, okay, like we're going to work on this though. And we're going to talk about the progression that we're making. And maybe it is just backyard play for a little bit. So before we can work up to that full walk. Exactly.
Fanna E. 44:17
I think the biggest thing is is having a conversation with the Guardian and saying Does your dog even like walks? Or is it you walk the dog? And they're like, Well, no, he does then Tommy What do you see? Not what you think? What do you see what happens? And then it's giving them different options. And also to letting them know the more that we walk your dog in this environment and your dog panics, the worse the behavior is gonna get it's like working a muscle. Then people are like, oh, oh, really? Yes. That is something that you I always say if I'm willing to bet money on it. It's it's gonna happen.
Collin 44:56
Yep. And find it because then you again they're they're finding themselves was in a helpless state helpless situation of going? No, I don't want to do it. So what do I as a dog have to do to make this stop?
Fanna E. 45:07
Exactly. And then we're circling back again? Are we giving the dog a choice? And are we is the is the guardian basically saying walk my dog because they want them to get over whatever it is not so obvious. Like it's not going to Yeah, it's going to.
Collin 45:22
Yep. And I love that. What's the purpose of this right to what end? Right? Because we people ask us for dog walks all the time, it's maybe for exercise enrichment, maybe it is to get over some quote unquote, anxieties that they have around the cars passing by and really going. Okay, I hear what you're saying is you're trying to work on weight management? Well, because of this behavior that we're we will work on, let's readdress the weight management and maybe through intensive backyard play, or through whatever way and we can work up to that maybe if we get to that point, but really finding out those alternatives and us sitting down and thinking through you, you come to me with a problem. There's not just one solution, I need to be able to I need to be equipped to come up with maybe three or four things to get to address a problem while working. I see a problem that the client comes to us while working towards the behavior that they're that they're maybe interested in. Exactly
Fanna E. 46:13
come out with somebody you know, maybe make a digging Pit and the dog digs maybe they're chasing bacon flavored bubbles in the backyard, you know, you're sending them videos of the dog chasing bubbles. I would love that I would love to see like Joseph chasing bacon bubbles,
Collin 46:28
but it would love to chase bacon bubble
Fanna E. 46:35
maybe it's bringing the dog that dog reactive to or can't walk in that in that neighborhood bringing them to the doggy was it doggy spot?
Collin 46:44
Oh sniff spot or whatever. Sniff
Fanna E. 46:47
spot you know where it's completely enclose bringing them you can now and I think sniff spot you can even bring rip somebody's swimming pool and bring them swimming or Yeah, so many things that options. But usually when you say hey, why is the dog that liking it? Here's other options, then there's most guardians are okay, now here's where I want pet sitters to know that people are behavior consultants, we have your back. If you get to a point that they're just like, nope, nope, nope, nope, dig in and say, Maybe we need a referral. Or maybe you need to talk to someone to address the issue. And know that it's aI so many times that you see pet sitters that are almost kind of in and The Guardian is just rah rah rah rah rah, reach out to us, like I said, your resource, I can email you something, and then you have a resource that you can hand to the guardian to prove and basically your point that don't it's not fair to the dog. Yeah, it is
Collin 47:49
important to have that to have that backup that second, that third, sometimes fourth opinion necessary the situations to be going. It's not just me, because again, you know, I we're not we're not combatting the fact that they didn't get the walk, like we may be combating the fact that this person thinks their dog needs to be the dog walking kind of dog, right. And this is their perception. Because growing up, they had like in this, they have the best Collie in the world who went with them on walks everywhere, and they're trying to relive those days in their life. It's like, okay, yeah, it's not about the walk, right. It's about the emotions that they have with this and the lifestyle they think they're trying to live, they want
Fanna E. 48:24
to be that person that has their dog in the dog, it's just, it's a glassy just doesn't exist, that type of dog just does not exist.
Collin 48:34
You mentioned to two important techniques when we are working with a dog who may have some reactivity, as far as dropping treats further away from us and moving slow in the home, is there anything else that we need to be aware of if we're in a dog who is displaying some of the that body language and that behavior, I
Fanna E. 48:52
think space, space, space, space, moving slow space, and turning away from the dog are massive, just like with humans, we can like space down here in the south, we maybe we have a smaller space bubble, where I always joke in the northeast, they have a bigger space bubble, they kind of keep your space between that's just what people know, you know, we have down here they don't. So it's just to the dog of what works best for that dog and keep in space. If the dog has stopped, you create space. If the dog creates space, then you it's almost like a think of two little bubbles that are pushing against each other. Keep that space and if the dog decides they want to come over and meet you, then you know what, let them sniff you pet them, pet them wants, move your hand. How does the dog respond? The dog backs up, they really didn't like it. If they push forward and want more pets than they do. It's letting the dog make that choice in you reinforcing that choice. Yeah,
Collin 49:53
again, watch it watching that dog. We've even had to do in some instances when you talk about the kind of the more sound Don't reactivity sound phobias of going, okay, maybe in the wintertime, I really need to make sure I take my boots off at the door so that I when I'm not walking around, I'm not going clop clop clop, you know, hitting the hardwood floors and really making these loud booms as I'm walking, and really just going kind of shrinking into that space and going, what do I do and it is this kind of feedback mechanism of I do this dog does that, okay, if I liked that, because I like that, let me work on that if the dog reacts in a negative way, I need to then switch course and change, I don't need to continue to push into that.
Fanna E. 50:37
It's a conversation just like you would have with a person, it's a conversation. And I'd like to add to when because most people have more than one dog one, too. And you're walking in as a pet sitter with multiple dogs is decreased the arousal rate, because that is what can cause multiple dogs to stay engaged in fighting, decreasing arousal rate is moving slow purposefully. But a lot of times they see people like oh my god. This high pitch clapping, you can almost see the dog starts to vibrate. And when that arousal level increases, you're more likely to engage, or dogs will start to squabble, when you come in the house or start to fight over resources are going through narrow openings, like doors and things like that. So multiple dogs, keep your arousal rate, it doesn't mean that you don't love them. You're just keeping everybody under threshold and nice and calm.
Collin 51:35
Yeah, we as as pet sitters and dog walkers and we're coming into client's homes, and the dog may be anxious for whatever reasons or have these reactivity or whatever is it may be that this is something that that client is intensively working on, it may be that the dog is is anxious, because now they're home a little bit longer. And they don't know quite how to manage themselves, like we talked about earlier, they may also be a little anxious because somebody new is in the home. And so we're constantly managing this from different levels, different perspectives. So for us being in a visit, you talked about it earlier about progress. And I think that that is something that we can come come really defeated on over time if we don't feel like we're making big leaps and bounds. So how do we either stay motivated or keep the right mindset around making quote unquote, progress with with a dog or an animal that we're working with?
Fanna E. 52:24
I think that to identify progress, you need to identify what behavior that you want to see improves, because it's hard to say you got progress if you don't even know what you're watching, right? And so if you're like, Okay, this is what I see from a pet sitter that I want to understand, though, sometimes what you want to see progress in and The Guardian wants to see progress, and are two different things. So I would say keep with the Guardian, as seen in mind, but what do you see, usually it's barking at the door hiding things like that coming back inside that because again, you guys have limited time, what can I do to get moving quickly. So identify what you want to have progress on and then kind of evaluate each visit is the behavior getting better as in is the barking decreasing, not happening as much only happens when I come in the door instead of non stop as the dog coming in the door, coming in from outside quicker, faster, instantly, is the dog not hiding, but maybe hanging out in the back part of the living room. That's progress. And if you move and you're having that conversation with the dog, where you're giving space, and you're rewarding and letting the dog know that you're saying you will see behavior improved. If you see behavior stay the same, or it gets worse. That's when you need to refer out because there's probably a lot of other underlying things going on in there. There's nothing you've done, it's nothing you've done. There's just other, there's other variables there that need to probably be addressed. Right?
Collin 54:04
That's the more bigger picture stuff. But keeping in mind to have I've just, it can be good to remind ourselves of kind of where we're starting what that dog was like or even what that cat was like when we first started caring for them. I know when I train new employees, sometimes I go into dogs and I'll be like, this is a lot better than it was two years ago. Trust me like we are very happy that this is going on right now. They have some perspective to have like, No, this is amazing. The fact that the dog is trusting us to even this level from where we started, let me show you a video right. Like we have to remind ourselves sometimes too because we get so in that moment. You're right we got we got this time we've got 30 minutes, we have an hour and I've got it I gotta I gotta I've got I've got TAS past TAs, Tas TAs and we forget that conversation that being that living thing that's in here that we need to be connecting with more and going. Gosh, man remember two years ago Don't even have that conversations like Bentley, remember two years ago when you wouldn't? Like, this is wonderful. Thank you for being doing this today.
Fanna E. 55:09
And while you're doing those tasks you are you can pay attention to the dog's behavior. And the guardian. No, you know, this is what I saw. Wow. Surely them on because you want to continue to build that bond between the dog and the guardian. And there's no way there's oh my gosh, look a bit ly did today. I don't shop, look, here's what a good boy. And then they're just like, oh my gosh, yay, Bentley, but then also they realize that you are improving behavior to and you're trustworthy, you're it that is everything. And it's very reinforcing to The Guardian. And again, it's very reinforcing to people like me, that behavior consultant, because now I know the ABA petsitter that I can recommend and refer to, for dogs that have certain issues, and the behavior is going to continue in the protocol that I recommend, it's continued. And then I once I know that you will follow these protocols will keep you so busy, you'll be booked out in a year, and then have to find somebody else as because you guys can only take so much, or you have to hire more people. But it's really important to everybody. Well,
Collin 56:14
so let's talk about that that hiring aspect. Because I know dog walking pet, same companies, we've got solo sitters, we've got solopreneurs, we do have people who work on teams and have a team approach as well. Sometimes it's a one for one model where one employee is taking care of that one dog for however long. A lot of times though, they're doing a mix and match of depending on somebody's schedule. So maybe we've got this dog's home, and they are exhibiting signs of anxiety. But maybe they may be seeing three or four different people over the course of a vacation or dog walking week, how can we make sure to set up those people in that dog for success, if that's the kind of model that that business has?
Fanna E. 56:52
The biggest thing is, is that I actually think that either or model is a good thing for the dog. So I don't think some people feel well, multiple dog pet sitters are coming in to see my dog, I think that's a good thing. Because you're exposing the dog to different types of people coming in and out. People that move or buddy moves differently, talks differently. So I think that's a good thing, I would say on the dogs, because communication is key. When you have that many people come in and out, if the dog has, you know, like their little word cord, identify what you guys want to improve, and then maybe have a grading scale. And then that person every time they go in, is able to say this is what I saw. And you can kind of see if the behaviors improving. Because if you don't document it, you really don't know and it becomes hearsay. And then I think it becomes laser focus Bentley working on this, this, this is what we see. And then from there, you know, if I go in, I can say oh my gosh, you know, soon as he said he did this, but for me, he did this and then not shows progress. But then again, the power of reinforcement is every person regardless of who they are, they go in, they have treats, they follow up, they respect that conversation between the dog they have and they give that dog a choice. It's just going to meet the dog and we're resilient. But to hatch, if it gets to a point that maybe you say you have five different pet sitters going in for doing well, maybe that fifth one is like Billy's not doing good with me. I would instead of saying something's up with Bentley, I would maybe say is that pester the best environment for Bentley? You know, and maybe switch that pets around that we would probably with somebody else, it's not the pets that are doing anything wrong with the dog. It's just, it just there's just something some dynamic missing. It's okay. I don't get along with everybody to you know, it is what it is. And maybe their pets or whatever was a little nervous. So give give some instead of saying well, just because they're just used to keep going to the dog ends up liking her again, we circle back around, right? Is the dogs choice. So play around with that good communication skills. And then if it's not getting better refer out. Yeah, I
Collin 59:09
love I love it. Because again, you know, we, you know, we may have a lot of pet sitters or getting some training certifications or going down that road, a lot of other people don't have that that skill set. But what we do have are our ways of working with dogs to build trust. And I think at the end of the day, that's really our focus of build trust with this dog or this cat, whatever pet I'm working with. And if you do have that team approach, you communication is key. It's is everybody being consistent when they're in there? Or, you know, is everybody on the same page with how we're working with Bentley? And know what the goal is? Because if they don't if we just have five or six rogue agents in their doing their own thing, shuckin and jivin it's like well, of course, nothing's going to happen here. Right? This is this is not going to end well for anybody.
Fanna E. 59:56
Well, it takes two seconds to document what you see I'm huge without documentation, I'm massive because how are you know where you're at? If you how are you going to go someplace if you even know where you're currently at? I have Google Sheets for everything. And my poor clients, we I mean, we measure everything. But I think that helps me document progress. And I think that would be a huge piece to make sure that we have consistency with multiple people. And it's a good thing having multiple people come in for the job, I think it's a good thing. Yeah.
Collin 1:00:22
Well, Fanna I'm so thankful to have you on the show and for your encouraging us to to, for that consistency, to be advocates for those dogs. And to know that there is help out there not just for the pet owners, but for us as well. Good people like yourself. So for those who want to reach out, learn more get start diving into this topic for themselves and maybe their team, how best can people get in touch with you and follow along with everything?
Fanna E. 1:00:48
Oh, my gosh, I obviously have Facebook and Instagram Fanna Easter is a name that sticks out. So you should easily be able to find me, you can go to my website at positive bucha.net. And you have my email there you I think I even have my cell there you can reach out and for those that are maybe new as pet sitters. And I want to know more about what we talked about, I put a course together for pet sitters. It's is the newer course, this is something that it got out there. And I want to measure and see how it goes. But I have other ideas of what I want to do in the summer to a little bit more of a robust program and more of a certification and more life teaching with me on this. So stay tuned for that. But I think it would be really good to learn more about that. It's a webinar. It's self paced. I have video you see all the works. I don't hide anything because they think that's how you are you see what goes on. So yeah, and just remember, you are not out there alone. I want you guys to know dog trainers and behavior consultants, we are behind you guys, and we'll reinforce whatever you need. You don't need to know everything. That's I think sometimes I spot that most of us get it reach out.
Collin 1:02:08
Well and on that hearing in closing Fanna if somebody's interested in getting connected with maybe trying to find a local behavior consultant and a local trainer for them, where what are good resources or listings or organizations that they could go to find one close to them.
Fanna E. 1:02:23
I would say if you want to look for a really good behavior consultant, the International Association of okay it's IACP Ay ay ay ay CP yes lately I a BC my brain I ABC and it's a certified dog behavior consultant. And then also to this. I know it as as letters it's the CC PDT is a certified certification Council of Professional Dog Trainers, they also have a behavior certification. Also, it's important to say that behavior consultants are totally different than dog trainers. It's it's a big difference. So those two are very, very safe. And I really big about certifications, get the certification. follow somebody with a certification because they've passed some pretty gnarly exams. I love
Collin 1:03:19
that and I will have links to all that in the show notes, links to your website, your course good follow you along with you on social media as well as absolute absolute pleasure. I'm so appreciative for your time today. So thank you so much for coming on. Absolutely.
Fanna E. 1:03:31
I hope I help somebody make things just a little bit clearer for the dogs they work with.
Collin 1:03:36
My biggest takeaway from my conversation with vana was when she said that dogs should have choices. letting them choose can make a world of difference in their behavior. How true especially when we are in situations of working with dogs or working around dogs with reactivity, anxiety, and other concerns. When dogs have choices, we build trust with them. It takes working with the human client, it takes partnering with them and everybody in their bubble to be on the same wavelength, using the same language with the same approach to really make strides in these efforts. The power of being a pet sitter, the power of being a dog walker, as we get to experience the dog, and all sorts of situations. It takes our training, background understanding and knowing our limits to make sure that's done safely and appropriately. We want to thank today's sponsors time to pet and pet perennials for making the show possible. And we really want to thank you for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and we'll be back again soon.
