299: The Key to Great Communication with Chrissy Neumyer Smith
Brought to you by:
Time to Pet. Go to timetopet.com/confessional for 50% off your first 3 months.
Pet Sitters International. Save $15 off your first-year membership by using promo code PSC15 at checkout https://www.petsit.com/psc
Summary:
Are you great at communicating with your clients? Chrissy Neumyer Smith, host of the Creating Great Grooming Dogs podcast, sheds light on what it takes to ask great questions of our clients. Chrissy explains the importance of using the right words and definitions for clear communication so we can give the right care. She also gives us the four questions we should ask everyone before we start services with them, and how it's ok to assume the dog may have issues that need to be addressed. Chrissy shares the relationship between behavior issues in dogs and burnout in the pet care industry, and what we can do about it!
Topics on this episode:
Importance of definitions
4 questions to ask your client
Behavior issues and burnout
Dealing with 'spoiled' clients
Main take away? The owner has the responsibility of taking care of their dog. NOT you.
About our guest:
I'm Chrissy Neumyer Smith. I'm a Certified Professional Groomer(CPG), Certified Behavior Consultant for Canines(CBCC), Certified Professional Dog Trainer(CPDT), Master Groomer Behavior Specialist(MGBS), Fear Free Certified Groomer and Fear Free Certified Trainer(FFCP).
I'm an instructor at Whole Pet Grooming Academy in Portsmouth NH where I teach the Master Groomer Behavior Specialist diploma program. I'm also the voice behind the Creating Great Grooming Dogs podcast.
When I'm not grooming, training, or teaching I enjoy competing in Flyball and in Rally Obedience- and generally playing with my 2 border collies Brok and Po.
Links:
Website: https://www.creatinggreatgroomingdogs.com
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/prosgroomsafe
Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1321963447882524
Give us a call! (636) 364-8260
Follow us on: Instagram, Facebook, Twitter
Subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, & TuneIn
Email us at: feedback@petsitterconfessional.com
A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
dog, groomers, owners, pet, people, grooming, pet sitters, training, trainers, behavior, questions, talking, pet sitter, client, good, touching, understand, aggressive, vet, day
SPEAKERS
Collin, Chrissy S.
Collin 00:10
Hello, I'm Meghan. I'm Collin. And this is Pet Sitter confessional and open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter brought to you by time to pet and pet sitters International. It's my belief that one of the core components of what it takes to be an excellent pet care provider is to be an excellent communicator. So how do we get better at that? What does it mean, to be a good communicator? Christine Neumayer Smith, podcaster groomer and professional dog trainer joins us today to talk about what it means to ask good questions, how we can be paying attention more to the pets that we're dealing with, and working with fearful animals. Let's get started.
Chrissy S. 00:49
Sure, yeah, thank you for having me, because I'm really excited to because I listen to this podcast. I am a host called groomer. And I do house call training as my own business. And then I also teach two days a week and whole pet grooming Academy in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. I teach the Online Master groomer behavior specialist course, which is my program, which is so awesome. But really, my goal is where grooming and training meet. And that's where, where my specialty lives. And I'm a trainer, a certified professional dog trainer, a certified behavior consultant for canines, and as well as a certified professional groomer working toward master certifications. And I started at an agricultural high school for animal science back in 1985. And I fell in love with dogs and my first job, it was my first summer internship in 1986. So 14 year old crazy working in a boarding kennel. And on my lunch break, I was watching the groomers and after work, I'd stay and stay for the dog training classes and help with those. I just was hooked from the very beginning. And they've grown together across the whole timeline.
Collin 01:58
You mentioned it, you're working at your you're focused on this interplay where grooming and training intersect. So in your mind, how do you describe that interaction of how grooming impacts training and how training impacts grooming.
Chrissy S. 02:13
So I think groomers tend to be the artistic side, we are artsy where we're, you know, cleaning dogs and then doing pretty trims. But we don't necessarily learn a lot about the behavior part. And so when a dog isn't comfortable with it, sometimes we're left to pet owner level kind of understanding of why dogs are uncomfortable. And then the training side brings in what you know more about what dogs think, how they feel, how they respond to what we're doing, and we can't get in their head and know how they feel. But we can watch their responses. And we can adjust our own responses. So from the training side, trainers don't necessarily understand Doc Rivers. They don't understand the grooming process. So I think it's really important for them to meet. Because these two fields do not talk together. They have entirely different verbiage entirely different words that they use. And yeah, it's interesting. So for me, it's more about these two fields should be going hand in hand and should always have been going hand in hand.
Collin 03:13
Well, what for you what are some of the biggest deficits that you see between them that you're trying to bridge?
Chrissy S. 03:19
I would say there are a lot of groomers who think that dogs are giving them a hard time when dogs are having a hard time. And that's a really key switch that I think a lot of groomers need to feel, you know, like, wait a minute, if I think he's having a hard time, I'm more likely to respond in a way that helps them be more comfortable. And then trainers are trying to come up with training programs that groomers can't implement, if you want us to use a clicker and treats and watch for a dog to target their nose on something that requires a second human, because we often have a dryer under our arm, our hands on a dog and another hand on a tool and we're looking at the mat rushing out right that so we need to bridge that gap so that dogs are better prepared for grooming, and that we don't need to people. You know, it's sort of where I think a lot of dog groomers give up because they're like, Well, I can't possibly implement some of these things. I feel like I'm already like the one man band like add a harmonica and some cymbals between my knees and we'll be all set
Collin 04:25
it yeah, a lot of the practical implementation of going you want me to do what like I've already focused on so many things are for pets that are going I'm already focused on making sure that they're not escaping through the door and their stress levels remain low and they're getting their medications and they're getting the attention that they need. You want me to add what to that and so I do that that's very interesting. Back and okay, how do I really realistically implement in do some of these things that you're asking me and you're right if we're not, in turn talking back, not talking back to them but you know, having this back and forth communication of going okay, that's great that you want me to use it clicker. How should I want to use a clicker when my all my hands and my toes are being implemented right now to make this happen?
Chrissy S. 05:06
Right, right. And it's not that the clicker is a bad idea, or the training is a bad idea, you might need two people to start off. Right? So you might need a second person. But I think most of us is groomers when I'm wearing my groomer hat are like, how long is that going to be? You know, and I'm sure if you guys as pet sitters to like, Hey, listen, I don't want to have to, like do all these extra steps forever. How do I how do we smooth this into our regular day to day?
Collin 05:36
Yeah, it's understanding that progression. i That's something that really more people need to be focusing on going okay, we have a quote unquote, solution right now. Is this the Forever solution? Is this going to work? Tomorrow is going to work in five years with the same dog? And how do we start moving them and working them out either away from that towards something else? That's actually less intensive? Or like you said, with with that doesn't require two people? A lot of pet sitters are so low, I'm they only are by themselves. And I need two people to do this. That's, that's actually just straight up not feasible for them. Yeah, absolutely.
Chrissy S. 06:11
And then the grooming setting too, you know, I mean, if you're going to have two people, well, money wise, that's double the cost, right? Yeah. Right. So we also need to think about how are we going to sell it, but for, for the person who has to implement it, whether that be the groomer, or the pet sitter, the point is, is that they need to feel like it's going to meet the need, or they won't follow through. That's true of dog owners with training, too. So if we make if we make it accessible, and say, hey, the trainer and I are going to work on these things, for the next time that my pet comes in for grooming, can you also help us implement these things that we're working on? Get everybody on board, which is where pet sitters and groomers and trainers and vet techs and veterinarians all can join forces and be that voice of we don't want your dog stressed out?
Collin 07:00
Yeah, well, that's that holistic approach, right? But realizing that I'm not the only member on this pet care team, that this person this, this owner is going to 456 different pet care professionals in some way. Are we all on the same page? Right? What I do may impact how the groomer experiences their life. And what the groomer does is going to impact how the trainer experiences that dog. So in those situations, we may all three or four of us be seeing a quote unquote, different dog. But it's just because it's situational. And we're training them to act that way when they're in front of us.
Chrissy S. 07:35
And if we aren't on board with the same definitions, yeah, then then one person can be doing what they think is the instructions. Yeah, so as an example, I can't help it. But a classic example, if you think a stern know is negative reinforcement. It's not. So if you think about that, like, oh, well, geez, we're using positive reinforcement. We're using negative reinforcement. And they're like, oh, okay, I can do that good boy, bad dog. You know, that's not what it is, you know. So even just knowing our lingo, you know, it's like, well, groomers being able to use groomer speak and look at a breed chart and say, Oh, this blade on this on this angle, you know, and that other people aren't going to understand. Yeah, yeah. No. Recipe. Yeah. Well, it helps
Collin 08:22
the owner to be equipped when there's consistent language. I mean, turret terminology is just utterly, it's so critical for them to be equipped to know how to communicate what's going on with their dog. I know for us, we had a situation where the lady was telling us Oh, my dog is really aggressive towards people super aggressive towards people. And it was like, okay, that I now have some set of expectation. But when I would actually met the dog, the dog, she told me, I said, So when was the dog aggressive? She said, Well, he was in his kennel, and the person reached into the kennel and pulled them out. And I was like, Oh, the dog was scared. Right? The dogs not aggressive to scare a dog. That's it. How
Chrissy S. 09:00
did he respond? What did he do? Was there an injury? Yeah. Yeah. How does he behave now when you reach into his crate to get him out? Exactly. Any last thing thoughts?
Collin 09:11
There's so many terms that go into this field that are kind of a little bit wishy washy. We're kind of used loosely in certain contexts. And if we're not using them appropriately, we're not setting because if that owner Witten is now telling everybody they encounter I have an aggressive dog. Well, the groomer may go idle except aggressive dogs, the trainer may put them in a different program that's not appropriate for them. And it just kind of spirals from there.
Chrissy S. 09:34
Another classic example is my puppy bites. No, your puppies get the puppy. rabbies I don't want you to start letting people think that your puppy is aggressive. Your puppies nine weeks old doing normal puppy stuff? It's not appropriate, but it's not fighting. Yeah, like your neighbors are gonna think the dog next door bites. Don't let the kids near them,
Collin 09:51
you know? Yeah. Well, so how do you approach those kind of misunderstandings? How do you talk to him? owner who's using improper language to describe what you're seeing.
Chrissy S. 10:04
So often what I'll do is I'll talk to them about okay, well tell me what you see. Because, you know, classic example people like, well, he's really dominant, like, okay, but tell me, tell me what happens. Tell me what you're talking about dominance means a lot of things to different people. And it's a term that's been taken over by pop culture in a way, that doesn't even make sense anymore. But, but I asked them, like, you know, tell me what you see, what does he do? So another dog is walking towards you what what happens, you know, and that's how I draw out information from owners that's more objective versus subjective, because owners to observe things, we just have to draw the information out of them better. And then we can bring it to their attention that like, oh, that doesn't sound protective. To me, that sounds more like a dog who's getting kind of panicky that someone's coming in the house, you know, like, whatever the case may be, to just kind of help them. Like, define it and really look at it, like, draw me the pictures. Tell me about the movie, you know? I need the details of what we saw. Yeah. And owners owners are actually pretty good at it. But you have to drag it out with good questions. Well,
Collin 11:08
so what kind of questions should we be asking people when it comes to working with before we start working with their dog,
Chrissy S. 11:14
I think that senators will, will be able to parallel with this, and this is probably going to be helpful for you guys. But I'm teaching groomers to to ask for questions. And it used to be three and added fourth one, but the question, first question is asking an owner, what does your dog do if he doesn't like something? Because there are a lot of answers, you know, does your dog try to run away? Does your dog curl up in a ball and kind of cower? Does your dog growl? Does your dog bite? Does your dog lunge? What does your dog do? And get the answer? And then the second question is, what is your dog do if he doesn't like something you are doing to him? And then the third question is, what does your dog do if you don't stop? A lot of owners don't know. I mean, that's okay. That they don't know that means that we have kind of a wildcard. And then the fourth question is, what do you think he'll do if I don't stop? As a groomer, that's often what they think they're paying us to do. But as pet sitters, you know, if they're like, oh, he hates having a harness, or he doesn't like it when you dry off his feet? Well, I want to know what more you know, before I get on the floor, face level with your dog and start trying his feet? What do you mean, he doesn't like it? Tell me more. So those four questions, I think, are really relevant to anybody works in the industry is just with dogs in general. To draw that information out of owners? No, no dogs scared. Is your dog. Basically scared and aggressive at the same kind of things? Yeah. Right. Like restaurant is, is a fear response.
Collin 12:45
You're looking at that basically, all those questions are going, what makes your dog fearful, and how do they respond? But if you say, what was your dog scared of? They're gonna think, Oh, the vacuum cleaner, the garbage truck? Thunder, right. But they're not going to say things like, Well, when I touch their feet, right, that's they're not going to view that as a fear or stress response.
Chrissy S. 13:08
So when I reach over him to pick them up and take them off the couch? Yeah. Yeah. Which is a big one. For a lot of people. Yeah, just
Collin 13:17
general handling stuff. So you're basically the the importance of good questions is going, I'm trying to simplify this to a point where you are as you as you said, earlier, Chris, you're going I need them to Paint me a Picture, and then I'm going to interpret what they're painting. I don't want them to try and tell me directly because they might not use the right terms. They're not, that'd be focusing on the right thing. I just I can't tell you how many times we've asked a question. And they give a really detailed response. That's nowhere close to it. And then they go, Oh, and also this one time this one thing happened. And it's like, oh, that's actually what I wanted to know about.
Chrissy S. 13:47
Yeah, yeah. And that's why, you know, like, it's just over time, and I try to simplify things, which is all about dog training. Dog Trainers are all about talking to people. It's all about the people. But when you try to simplify it, boil it down to its most small components. What does he do if he's scared? What does he do if he doesn't like something? Because owners will define it as doesn't like, yeah, you know, and, and that's too vague? I don't know. I mean, is this dog a risk to me? You know, is this dog you know, if he gets tangled in his leash in the park, gonna have a meltdown? I don't know. You know, I need you to tell me what you observe. And, and people love talking about their pets. So ask the right questions. And there'll be like, oh, and then this and this and this and that one sunny day and talking about their pets. Let them and get good information from it.
Collin 14:39
Yeah, I know. For us some questions that we've asked are things like, how does your dog respond when you take them to the vet, or how does your dog act when they're at the groomer? What is your groomer say about your dog? Because then I can put that into some context and go okay, given the situation, you know, how was the stock reacting and then the vet kind of put them kind of put the owner in highlight some common experiences that they have, that we that most pet owners are always going to have and go, Hey, what about this scenario? Or, you know, the trash truck? What's your dog do in the trash truck drives by? Because they may go, oh, you know what, actually, yeah, they tear through the drywall to try and get through the trash truck. That's important to know. I appreciate
Chrissy S. 15:19
it, pool. And the other thing I find with owners is that a lot of the times they think what they see is so normal, because this is their sample size of one dog. Yeah, maybe two or three, like a really sappy dog owner has maybe experienced 10 dogs in their lifetime. Right? If you didn't write after high school, we go into our own fields. And if you didn't go into animals at all, you probably functioning on your high school education, in biology, and your own pet experience, maybe your neighbor's dogs, but still a very small sample size, that they don't really understand that what they're seeing is abnormal. I had people say that of course, Dogs hate grooming, which is not true. A lot of dogs like grooming. Or will you know, I mean, I know how much they hate having nails done. I'm like, we don't know that. Your puppy has never had his nails done. What but the the myth? Is there the feeling that like, I've my last I hated nails, I thought that was just normal. So, you know, some of those things that people think are normal, you know, well, you know, he likes to put his mouth on your arm while you're while you're putting his collar on like, oh, no, that's not normal and not okay. Yeah.
Collin 16:31
But those those assumptions lead into behaviors that the client is going to have, they're going to
Chrissy S. 16:36
things that they will put up with, yeah, they're like, well, that's just owning a dog,
Collin 16:41
or things they may try and do or trading methods, they may try and do to prevent this behavior, which may, you know, again, spiral and make it worse or lead to something else. And, and instead of viewing it as a neutral scenario, or a positive thing, you mentioned very early on about a groomer going, is this dog giving me a hard time? Or is this dog having a hard time, that simple mindset of this dog, All Dogs hate having their nails trimmed? Or this is a scary experience for the dog? How do I make it better? That's you're going to, you're going to try and solve that very differently. And that's going to, and that's going to impact how that dog has for the rest of its life.
Chrissy S. 17:17
Yeah, yeah. And when we're talking to our owners, again, they have a very small sample size, and it might span decades. So their last training class they took might have been in the early 90s. You know, I mean, who knows, if they're still working on like, information that we have updated, you know, across the field, we've done so much more information. You know, so some of the things that people are still doing, I'm like, oh, there's there are much better ways to do this, you know, but I always try to inspire people to try something new, instead of trying to tell them that what they're doing is harmful or bad. Because as someone who started in the 80s, with choke collars and prawn collars, and lots of equipment I no longer use, if you had told me I was mean or bad. I'd be like, just teaching him he's fine. But if you put what did work is when people said, Hey, have you tried this now? I'll always try it. Tell me more. You know, have you tried this? Tell me more.
Collin 18:17
Have you heard of time to pet? Claire from Acton critters editors has this to
18:21
say time to pet has honestly revolutionized how we do business. My sitters can work much more independently, because they have ongoing access to customer and pet information without relying on me. I save hours upon hours of administrative time on billing, processing payments and generating paychecks
Collin 18:38
if you were looking for new pet sitting software, give time to pet a try listeners of our show can save 50% off your first three months by visiting time to pet.com/confessional. Well, that's part of that client education that we find ourselves in of, of continuing and I love how you point that out, Chris, you're reminding ourselves the clients don't know what I know. They're not in this world. Like you said they they maybe we experienced this all the time where maybe some people had a dog when their kids were young. And then that dog passed away. The kids went to college, they didn't have a new dog and now they've got grandkids and they get a puppy for the grandkids. And it's been 20 years since they've had a dog and they are they their their point in dog time is pinned 20 Maybe 25 years ago and
Chrissy S. 19:23
rolled up newspaper a month ahead if they go poop in the house like what's Yeah,
Collin 19:27
I don't if I don't understand again, it gets back to this language and communication. Okay, when they say this, where are they coming from? Where's that rooted in so that I know how to respond react and redirect to something different. Again, it's all about training the human.
Chrissy S. 19:43
It's all about training the human. And again, if you think about our instructions have to meet their need. They have to understand their need. And then they'll they'll say, Okay, well why is this matter to me? You know, so for instance, Sometimes groomers tell me Well, the feedback I get is I'm not going to do training for my groomer. Right? I hear where they're coming from. I'm like, but you have to address that, like, oh, no, no, I'm trying to help you with your dog's problem. We're trying to be a team here. And I'm not asking you to train your dog for me, because I don't need to groom your dog, you need your dog to be groomed. And I can choose who my customers are. And this is a safety risk, you know, and actually have a safety policy that I tell my owners, you know, so that before we even see a behavior problem, we talk about how I handled behavior problems, I think, and with pet sitters, too, I think there's no harm in US assuming a dog is gonna have some issues, and then being pleasantly surprised. So let's plan is if the dog is going to have a couple of issues with something, why not? There's no harm in planning ahead and say, you know, hey, in case he's really scared by this, you know, this is how we handle it.
Collin 21:00
So what is that safety policy is that just assuming there may be issues and then you know, and planning accordingly or
Chrissy S. 21:07
react, you want to hear the grooming safety policy, I would love to Yeah, all right, I'm gonna flip a different screen on my computer. So I can just read it out to you. This is the safety policy, it's not a contract. It's not legally binding. But it's sort of a this is how I do business. To provide the highest level of care for your pet, we have a safety policy, if at any time your pet gets nervous, anxious, scared, aggressive, or even overly silly, we slow down and help your pet to be comfortable and calm. It's very important to us that the pets in our care are kept safe and stress free. We use sharp tools and need to prevent injuries, we will work with your pets to help them feel comfortable. This will build a great experience for successful grooming for your pets lifetime. Your pet may not be groomed to perfection today, we will charge for the time that we spend working with your pet. So is there a lot of discussion points in there? Yeah. You know, but I think spraying it out as a safety policy instead of how we charge if your dog is bad. That's all people will hear, right? Oh, he was aggressive, I charge more. And they think they're buying a hair cut. And like the extra box or jar of Bad dog that they'll just write the check for the different amount. So you need to spell it out that I've had a lot of people say shark tools. Can't you use the safety equipment? It cuts hair, it's sharp. Yeah. You know, like, anything, anything can hurt dog grooming. If they bite the brush that's going to hurt them. If they bite one of our combs. Yeah, they could hurt themselves, you know, if they sit on our equipment, if they you know, kick the Clippers if they knock over a table. So, there's a lot of crazy stuff out there.
Collin 22:49
Yeah, well, and you haven't they're the one that stuck out to me was if they're overly silly. And I think many times we forget about the extreme other end of this of even an overly excited, you know, worked up dog is is almost sometimes almost as dangerous than a fearful, aggressive dog because of how they're using their body in the space. And because I'm still having to handle them.
Chrissy S. 23:11
Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of owners and non groomers, call it non groomers, I think a lot of non groomers would assume we'll put a muzzle on and everything will be safe. But there are a lot of ways for dogs to get hurt. And there are a lot of ways for people to get hurt. And it's not usually a bite, I've had my back put out of like, hurt my shoulders and stuff just trying to hold on to a dog who's you know, panicking, you know, and, you know, I mean, if I didn't know, he was gonna panic when you turn on a dryer, you know, I mean, now I'm so much more savvy with it. And I'm like thinking about those problems before I find them. But sometimes groomers are finding those problems by like flicking on something and the owner is like, Oh, well, of course, he hates loud noises. He's a dog. Don't you know, their ears are so sensitive. And you just fly off the handle and eat people. That's not okay.
Collin 24:05
Not well, or, or like if we are out walking a dog and it gets spooked by something or the car or the siren goes off or whatever. You know, here in the Midwest, we have the times where the tornado sirens test in the first day of every first week of every month. That's really good to know. So that you know and you're prepared. Okay, this dog, I have experience with dogs not liking the sound. I'm a little unsure about how this dog is going to act. The owner didn't give me a clear answer. I need to be prepared for when that siren goes off at noon today, to have this dog and be more in control of it. Just being aware of where I am to kind of this situational context
Chrissy S. 24:41
of what's happened stay closer to home, things like that. Like don't find yourself two miles down the trail when the siren goes off because she said he's a little bit iffy about it. What does that be?
Collin 24:55
Yeah, that's what I say we're dying with kind of doing these diagnoses. I'm trying to respond appropriately and in a good way. So for the talks that are you know that you see Chrissy that are overly excited, or fearful, what are some good ways or some good techniques to work on calming and bring them back down?
Chrissy S. 25:15
So there are a couple of things I kind of like to I'm one of those people who talks a lot. And that's kind of my go to is I'll start in with the soothing voice, like, Ah, right, buddy. Let's slow down and you slow everything down. It's slow petting, it might be just Just touch, like, let's just take a deep breath together, can we calm down? You know, and if that does not work, some dogs need to be jolly dogs. Like some dogs are like theirs, they're tightened up into a little ball and you're like, Hey, come here, come here, okay, you're okay. But you know, you're gonna have to play it by ear by what that dog is doing. And then if they are particularly worried about some things that we do, there, there's, there's also a point where you just need to do some owner homework, you know, as a pet sitter, you might have more opportunity to be part of a day to day regiment, you know, but if you're if you're a dog walker, but if you're a pet sitter you, you might not, you know, you might just have a dog for weekends, you know, or you I don't know your world. But you know, if you're part of day to day, you might be able to really implement a lot of it for a person, but owners need to be on board for a lot of that stuff to really create some change.
Collin 26:30
So what are some things that you would recommend a pet professional do to help set the dog up for success while they're being groomed? And away from the home? And obviously, like you said, part working with the owner, like that's super integral. So how can we basically how can we help owners do their homework, and they're, they're good whenever they're on the table being worked on.
Chrissy S. 26:51
One of the games that I have owners play is I want them to let go of the grooming for a week or two. Even if their dog needs to be brushed, don't worry about the brushing as much as play this game, which is basically when you're taking stuff off your coffee table, and touching your dog with it. random stuff in things, because touching your dog all over is an important part. And sorry, guys, but there's nothing is taboo. When you're touching your dog, your groomer is going to touch every millimeter of your dog, including inside their mouth sometimes. So every little teeny tiny part. But if they're used to that, and they're good with it, start touching on with stuff and things from the coffee table, the coaster, the jar candle, the tissue box, get them used to like this isn't weird, because that's part of how you can prepare a dog for grooming process, because we have all weird stuff. And my stuff doesn't look the same as my fellow grimmer stuff. Because we all also have our own brands and things too, you know, but touching them all over with stuff and things and then getting them to a point where they can stand up and be touched all over with stuff and things. And when I have owners do that, that usually asked me Well, I don't want my dog to think those things are toys. And that's an important part of the process. Yeah, they aren't toys, we don't want them playing with the stuff and things that we're touching them with. Because that could be a brush or a comb, or scissors. So but if owners do that, and they're really good about it, if you're doing it right, it should be about as interesting as watching paint dry, the dog never gets cited, the dog never gets worried. Just keep them out whenever they can handle. And if they do that for a couple of weeks, it's an amazing difference. This is more about just becoming a new habit. Some exposure. Yeah, gentle exposure. Because you know, a gentle exposure and just like, oh, this is a weird thing you're doing and you're like trusted person. Yeah. Right. So in a trusted place, and it never becomes scary, right? As interesting as watching paint dry, you shouldn't see any big responses. It should be very, very boring. But I'm working on it in that way. And then if you do use positive reinforcement, I know sometimes people are using clicker training and stuff like that. I kind of asked them to try doing this without it. Because the ideal is that you're going to be able to have your dog better prepared for grooming environment where they might not be able to have treats. Yeah, because the grooming environment can't necessarily have treats. Some places actually have rules that we don't use treats because it can affect every other dog in the room. Right. So one of the things I'm teaching groomers is to kind of assess how that dog is with treats. Like before, we like to have a little checklist of things to think about before you take in a dog with treats like okay, is this dog you know, a lick mat may sound like a great idea. Unless this dog is football aggressive? How are you going to move him away from his lick mat? Now he's like, this is good peanut butter and it's a thing and I'm not letting you near it. You know, so a lot of groomers have said we're not going to deal with food. So if if owners are doing this process without using food, or pet sitters or Anybody else is involved with the dogs life, then we're also setting them up to be able to handle the real deal a little bit
Collin 30:06
quicker. Yeah, yes. For Success, it's like we've I've walked some dogs where it basically the only way the owner has been able to maintain control them as if you have treats in your hand constantly. Well, that's fine until you don't have traits in your hand. And then you have a dog that's completely uncontrollable on the end of the leash, and you are going to be put in a very bad situation. So while that was, as we talked about earlier, like that was a good fix for that moment, but that wasn't a long term, not fit. That was
Chrissy S. 30:35
a life preserver. Your life preserver, but let's start talking to how to swim. Because you know, like I kept you from drowning. We need Yeah.
Collin 30:46
Well, and you've talked a lot of on your podcast about the relationship between behavior issues and burnout in groomer industry. And I think this is very relatable to how pet sitters are as well, there's a lot of there's burnout for lots of different reasons. But behavior issues are one that I don't see a lot of people talking about. So what, what's the interplay here? And how do we start working beyond this?
Chrissy S. 31:11
Well, so I think if we take behavior issues really, really seriously, and, and we remember that the owner has the responsibility of taking care of their dog, take a deep breath, ah, the owner has a responsibility of taking care of their dog, the only two dogs on this planet, I'm responsible for the two dogs that sleep in my bedroom at night. Right, so we have to kind of distance ourselves a little bit, we tend to take on everyone's problems in a way that we don't have to. But we want to guide them to good information. Because I think that a lot of these owners are thinking like, well, that's not a big deal. So we ended up in situations where we're dealing with dogs that are making our lives really difficult. And maybe for pet sitting, that's a matter of like, I really need to plan my day differently. Because this one particular dog, you know, is going to really belt out my arm. Why, you know, like, I can't walk another dog after this guy. I don't want to walk him on ice, you know, like that. We get beat up. If you work with animals, you get beat up on the best of days, you know, if you can imagine your same job, and every one of those dogs is well behaved for you and comfortable with it, or learning how to be with owners who have realistic expectations. Imagine the load off of your mind. Yeah, I mean, it's life changing. Because I have done that, you know, and I'm like, okay, yeah, I have a bunch of behavior cases, and some of my behavior cases are never going to get better. Because they're little old dogs, and they have some dementia, and they have health problems. But you know, what, my owners have realistic expectations. Safety is the number one factor that we're all talking about the health and safety for the dog and for me, and it is life changing. Versus like, oh, here comes another rodeo, you know, that's how we get hurt.
Collin 33:06
Well, and part of that is having, making sure that we are equipped with the tools and knowledge to handle those. Now, obviously, we can't be experts in all fields. So we still need to be able to refer out to people and have good connections with behaviorist and trainers and therapists and all that. But if we know the basics, like the big one leash pulling, how do I make this dog stop, please play. I mean, we just took on a new client, his name's buddy, he's absolutely adorable. He's he pulls like a Mack truck. And if I didn't have tools to start addressing that, I would start that I mean, this is a client, we would we wouldn't take on or I would start dreading this client because I need the money, I need that space filled, I causes burnout. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I'm reading all of that. And I'm in pain when I'm walking the dog. And now I have negative associations with them, and it just spirals from there. So equipping ourselves with this a little bit of knowledge and a little bit of access and connections to the community of other pet care professionals, starts addressing a lot of that mental burden that we have.
Chrissy S. 34:09
It does, it does. And one of the things you mentioned there that I always jump in on when people use the word behaviorist. I want to make sure make it really clear. A behaviorist in the United States is a veterinary specialty. That's a veterinarian who has gone on to more to study behavior that's not a dog trainer or behavior consultant, which are more trade level. All right. And yet in the UK, a behaviorist as a dog trainer, behavior consultant kind of thing. So I think the lingo, but a lot of the time people like I think he needs a behaviorist and I'm like, I don't think a dog needs a veterinary specialist to understand why he's jumping on leash. You know, like, there are times where I'm like, you know, there aren't many veterinary behaviorist and they're usually going to be your vet contacting them and collaborating with them. Now it's great for us to say this is a we in behavior and I want you to talk to your vet first. Yeah. And then find out about like, hey, here are a couple of local trainers that, you know, network with each other, you know, here a couple of local trainers, you know, find out who we can help them find, so that we can all be on the same page together. But, but knowing that there's a variety of specialists, you know, and I don't know if you mind me mentioning this, but I usually talk to owners about how think about all of the adults in your kid's life, whether you have kids or just remember be in one, right your teacher, that's an obedience instructor. Right? Your agility instructor, that's your soccer coach, maybe they have kids, maybe they're a teacher, they're really knowledgeable, but they're, they're playing soccer with your kids, right? Your hairdresser, that's your dog groomer. The the guidance counselor that your behavior consultant Yeah. Right. So you think like obedience instructors, and they they might overlap and they might be awesome, but you I think with people we tend to think about the which person are going to you know, your pediatrician or a child psychologist, those are different jobs. So if we think about the wide variety of of adults in your dogs were just like we can collaborate with others and a trainer is likely to say, I know who to send you to if that's not what I do, you know, just like a pet sitter, like oh, I don't do overnights I know who does.
Collin 36:28
Building a profitable pet sitting business on your own can feel overwhelming. Since 1994, pet sitters International has helped over 40,000 people just like you start and grow their business. From Access to group rate, pet sitter insurance and discounts on background checks to free client handouts and a monthly member of toolkit. Psi provides you with the credentials, continuing education and community you need to grow your pet sitting business. You'll also be invited to join a private online network of other pet sitting business owners from around the world. Save $15 off your first year of membership by using the promo code PSC 15 at checkout, visit pet set.com/psc to learn more. Or I don't do I don't do training, right I don't deal with with that world. So I need to know who to send you to I need to know who to send you out to because we we want to make sure that that pet is being cared for the best way possible. Remember, it's the own as you said, it's the owner's responsibility to care for their pet, they may look for additional resources. And if I can point them in directions if I can send them to people. That's just I'm, I'm I'm helping them even though I can't you know, help them directly.
Chrissy S. 37:39
Absolutely. So with my house call business, there are times where I'm like, I don't think your dog is gonna do better with house call. You know, like, I think that because house called by nature house called grooming is start to finish. Yeah, I can't really give your dog a ton of like true breaks, I can back off a little bit. But unless you want to pay me to sit on your couch and watch TV for an hour, I'm not going to be talking about break. But a different format, a grooming shop, on a slow kind of quiet Wednesday morning, might be able to give your dog a number of breaks me sending somebody to the professional, that's better for them makes me the hero. Even if I didn't get their business, who cares? It's good for the business. They will tell everybody that you helped them that faith you help them.
Collin 38:24
Yeah, and that's a really good point to have meaning people go, Oh, well, my dog have going okay, they didn't like the going to the girl that was there was concerned about that going to the groomer that day. Okay, let's try a different day, a less busy day, a more busy day, you know, a day without this other dog there. And those, those are all questions that you can ask and point them because a lot of owners go, Well, I didn't know I could have those options, or I didn't know I could pick things like that. Or I didn't know, I could sit around these things and working with them on those different levels too.
Chrissy S. 38:52
Yeah. And you know, if you think about it, there's so many options. There are so many types of animal businesses out there. Yeah, you know, that, like, so many options, you know, but helping our owners find the right information, you know, that that still makes us a hero, even if it's a matter of like, let me find like their their behavior things I don't do you know, a true separation anxiety case? I'm like, You need someone who really does that all the time. Yeah, you know, like, that's not me. No, the separation sad. I do those all the time. Like, not every dog barks when you leave is separation anxiety. But fishing out details and helping people find the right specialists and finding the right help.
Collin 39:36
And that's where the again, the terminology comes right back around. If if they're saying one word if they're saying separation anxiety, and I interpret that to be something like I missed, I might get myself in over my head because I didn't ask the right questions. And I'm actually dealing with a much more severe case. And true, you know, diagnoseable separation anxiety versus just the sad right that's
Chrissy S. 39:55
Yeah, yeah. You know, you come in from 11am Walk and the dog has already I'm tired of its cage and shoot every doorframe of windowsill and is bleeding. Yeah. Which is like somebody that did contact me. That was the story she had. She had adopted a dog spent the weekend with them. Went to work at 7am came back at 11am to walk home. And yeah, that's separation anxiety, not like, oh, oh. I'm much more worried about the dogs that are like, yeah, let the door hit you on the way out, whatever.
Collin 40:30
Finally, they're gone. Right? Yes.
Chrissy S. 40:33
Anything? We can't be everything for everyone. Yeah, so the more we think about like, Okay, how, who are my my local trainers and other groomers and pet sitters, and the vets and the vet techs? And you know, one of the ways to do that is just kind of network with people. Yeah, you know, yeah. And it doesn't mean like, you have to, you know, refer business all the time and stuff, but just kind of like, hey, I'm interested in what you do. And how can we help each other out? Do we have the same kind of clientele?
Collin 41:04
That Well, I feel like this kind of goes into something I wanted to pick your brain on to have, as we talk a lot about modern pet parents, and they they behave very differently than pet parents of 2030 years ago. And one word that I see thrown out there a lot is my dogs spoiled. My dog is squealed. So how? And, again, that means different things. But I wanted to ask, you know, how do we how do we work with a spoiled dog, but more importantly, how to work with a an owner? That's, that's like that as well.
Chrissy S. 41:35
Okay, so I would back that up to define it. Tell me she talked to me about a time when your dog is spoiled? Like, what does it how does it play out? Because you know what, I kinda like the dogs that are spoiled. Because what I think most people mean, is that they do a lot with their dog, they spend a lot of time with their dog. For some people, it just means that he's allowed to be a house dog, which I think is crazy. But I grew up in New England, it's too cold in winter for dogs to be outdoor dogs, but they're like, oil, he lives in the house, you know, that it could be that he's like, sleeps in bed with them or something. And I think there are a lot of myths about like, Oh, if a dog sleeps in bed with you, or is up on the couch with you, like they're trying to take over the world, and they won't respect you and all that's really, really outdated thinking. But spoiled dogs could just be dogs that people are truly into. It doesn't mean that they aren't necessarily well trained. My I would consider my dogs spoiled. But you know, they, they play flyball, they compete and rally. We do fun stuff. But they're also expected to behave to the level that I've trained them, which is going to be individual, you know, you must be a really nice safe house pet, first and foremost. And if that means you also get to play all sorts of games and give me a sad look. And I get up and open the door for you. I don't care.
Collin 42:58
But you're right, you know, stepping back. Spaceball doesn't mean a bad thing. Because you're right, most modern pet parents absolutely adore and love and the lavish on their pets, they're buying them high quality food, they're doing a lot of investing in them with training and with good quality products and with time and interest. And they're concerned about their dog's well being. So just because somebody says, Oh, I spoil my dog or my dog spoiled, doesn't mean oh, gosh, here comes a brat. Here comes, you know, here comes an untrained dog, we have to assess them, obviously. But having that initial reaction of like, I can't I'm not dealing with that. It's gonna be a deficit, because that most of those clients are gonna be the ones where we tell them something, they're gonna be like, Absolutely. Let's do this. Let's. Yeah,
Chrissy S. 43:41
yeah. And when we talk about owners saying, you know, oh, my dog is really spoiled. I know, like, a lot of animal professionals do the hard, I roll in a big long sigh thinking, Oh, here we go, man. And, but if we think instead, like, Oh, see, you're really into your dog? Are you having training problems? Ask them if they're having training problems. If they think their dog is really, really spoiled, you know, we just don't set good boundaries. Like they'll tell you what their training problems are. And like, you can spoil him and still set boundaries. And they're like, whoa, tell me more. Tell me. Hey, do every time like you can spoil your dog. You don't need to ruin his fun. But you can also set boundaries and guides. And I mean, if you make training fun, that's why positive reinforcement training works so well. There's no downside to following my instructions when I've made it fun. Hey, Mom wants to play with me. She just called me inside. It's a win.
Collin 44:41
Absolutely. It's a reminder again, of assessing where that client is, what their needs are. And then whether I'm a I'm the appropriate one to meet those are not and having good resources to back that up and going this person is because we don't want to miss out on the opportunity to work with a client who's invested and who is eager and who is wanting to the best outcome? We all want those people. And if we're constantly turning them away because they use the wrong term or they're not, you know, that's we're putting ourselves and you know, behind the eight ball on that one. So it's it's all about doing a good assessment, listening to what they're trying to say. And then and then moving forward.
Chrissy S. 45:19
Yeah. And asking those, like, open ended questions where they have to tell you the story. Yeah. Make them tell the story and spend some time with it. I mean, I actually book calls for things like that. So if someone contacts me for a house called grooming, I'm like, Okay, we're gonna need to talk for about half an hour. Can't really throw that in my day, on average, let's go ahead and book that. But I asked him all sorts of open ended questions and spend some real time investing in them.
Collin 45:44
Yeah, I think that is a great, great tip. And Chrissy, when I hear about everything that we've talked about today, it's all about being a communicator and communicating, which means both asking good questions, but importantly, listening and taking that time to really hear what people are trying to tell us. I have. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. Crazy. I can't tell you how much fun this has been and learning more about good questions and how it applies to everything about how we can be a good part of a good pet care team. I know there's a lot more here. You have an entire podcast and masterclass about that though, so where can people find the podcast and start following everything that you are doing?
Chrissy S. 46:27
Okay, so my podcast is creating great grooming dogs, you can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts, I think I'm on all of them. So anyway, are you listening to this podcast, you can probably find mine. Or you can go to creating great grooming dogs.com And listen there. And the podcast really is for it's very much for groomers. But I also try to incorporate an awful lot for owners, for for trainers for for non groomers, so that we can all get closer to being on the same page and understanding why the things that groomers do are just weird. And some dogs have trouble with weird. So and I also love hearing from listeners if you have questions and stuff you can find me and creating great grooming dogs on Facebook, this Facebook page, it's Facebook group. You know, you can find me there and I'm happy to answer questions.
Collin Funkhouser 47:18
Perfect. I'll have links to that in the show notes on the website so people can start following along. I highly recommend the podcast I enjoyed every time it comes out Chrissy I really do. It's very insightful, and helps me understand again, how how pet sitters how pet professionals can be part of a broader community and have this holistic approach because I think that that's really what helped start setting not just our clients and their dogs but but us up for success to communities always better. There's nothing wrong happens with that. So
Chrissy S. 47:46
yeah, the more we work together, our customers are super happy. Yeah, when they and also when they hearing the same kind of information from three or four different professionals. Right, it starts becoming the norm. Yeah. And that's really nice. We don't want to burn out on this job. Working with dogs should be fun. Yeah, I
Collin 48:08
very good. Thank you so much. Chrissy, I thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really, really appreciate it. Well,
Chrissy S. 48:14
thank you for having me. It was so much fun. Because I'm a big fan of your show.
Collin 48:17
I had two really big takeaways from my conversation with Chrissy. The first one was that how do we become better communicators? We do that by asking really good questions. We know the information that is locked away inside our clients heads or in their community or if they're a vet, or groomer, we have to be able to ask good questions, to get access to that information so that we can give the highest possible care to them and even recognize whether we're going to be a good fit or not. And then the second thing I absolutely loved when we discussed the relationship between behavior issues and burnout in the pet industry. And Chrissy said, the owner has the responsibility of taking care of their dog. That is a hard pill to swallow. We are so passionate about the level of care, the quality of care the amount of care that we give as dog walkers as pet sitters. It pains us to have to step back. But one of the only ways that we are going to be able to put our head at rest at the end of every day, is to recognize that first, we did our best. And secondly, at the end of every day, it is the owners responsibility to care for that pet. Now they hired us to help them in that process. They have a lot of education and needs that go into making them the best pet parent possible. But the responsibility for their care doesn't lie with us. We can help all we can, but we do have to step back and recognize it's not our dog. That is really hard. It is not easy to recognize that because we do become so emotionally involved. and invested with the pets that we are in charge of. I really encourage you to look at both the questions that you're asking to make sure that you're getting the information you need. And secondly, do you recognize where your responsibility stops? And the ownership responsibility starts? Do you have good boundaries, good policies and procedures and trainings in place to help you in that process so that you don't start going into burnout? We really want to thank our sponsors time to pet and pet sitters international for making today's show possible. And we really want to thank you so much. For listening. You have no idea how much it means to us. We know you are insanely busy these days and we are so happy for you. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week. And we'll be back again soon.
