569: Making Business a Win-Win with Jo Moorcroft and Vicky Davies
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Is your pet business running you instead of the other way around? Jo Moorecroft and Vicky Davies from Canine Business Academy join us to share their expertise on building intentional, sustainable, and fulfilling pet care businesses. We discuss the power of defining your business purpose, creating win-win client relationships, and avoiding common pitfalls like burnout and disorganization. Learn actionable steps to shift from survival mode to thriving mode while maintaining exceptional care standards.
Main topics:
Defining Your Business Purpose
Becoming the Bouncer of Your Business
Balancing Client Needs and Business Efficiency
Moving from Operator to Owner Mindset
The Role of Mentorship and Community
Main takeaway: “Detach yourself from your business and act like the CEO it needs. Build intentionally, say no when it doesn’t serve you, and create a business that supports your life—not the other way around.”
Running a business often feels like an endless cycle of tasks, client demands, and “just one more thing.” But here’s a truth that changed everything for us: You are not your business. When you detach yourself from the daily grind and start thinking like the CEO, you give your business room to thrive—and yourself space to breathe. 🌟
Act intentionally. Build with purpose. Say “no” to what doesn’t align with your goals. When you prioritize creating a business that supports your life, not the other way around, you step into a role of leadership that fuels growth and sustainability. 💼✨
It’s time to stop being the operator and start being the visionary. What’s one thing you can let go of today to make space for a better tomorrow? Let us know in the comments! 👇
About our guests:
Jo Moorcroft
Jo is a seasoned business strategist and co-founder of the Canine Business Academy. With a background in corporate advertising and years of experience running a successful dog training business, she is passionate about empowering pet professionals to design businesses that align with their values and lifestyle. Jo blends her expertise in business development with her deep understanding of client psychology to help dog professionals create sustainable and thriving careers. As a mentor, speaker, and advocate for intentional growth, Jo is dedicated to fostering innovation and excellence in the pet care industry.
Vicky Davies
Vicky, co-founder of the Canine Business Academy, brings over a decade of hands-on experience as a dog trainer, behaviorist, and pet care professional. Starting her journey in the rescue sector, Vicky has always been driven by her passion for animal welfare and her commitment to helping dog owners foster better relationships with their pets. Known for her creative approach to business strategy, Vicky encourages pet professionals to think outside the box and embrace their unique strengths. She is a champion for collaboration and innovation, helping others build businesses that support both their personal and professional aspirations.
Links:
Their new book: https://amzn.to/3PWM8Gp
https://caninebusinessacademy.com
https://www.facebook.com/caninebusinessacademy
https://www.instagram.com/canine.business.academy/
https://www.youtube.com/@LetsTalkDogBusiness
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Pet sitting, business strategy, client interaction, Canine Business Academy, dog training, business growth, client avatar, business purpose, boundaries, efficiency, client selection, business mindset, industry challenges, professional development, community support.
SPEAKERS
Jo M., Vicky, Collin
Collin 00:00
Music, welcome to pet sitter confessional, an open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter. We're brought to you by tying to pet and the peaceful pet music, calm music for pets. YouTube channel, running any sort of pet business is is difficult, and there are a lot of ins and outs and understanding not just how to offer amazing services, but to serve our clients well, from training, boarding daycare to pet sitting, it's it's all intertwined with how we interact with our clients and make sure that we're running and serving people the best that we can. And today, we're really excited to have Joe and Vicky from canine Business Academy on the show to talk about these aspects and lots of other things as well. I had the pleasure of actually being on their podcast not too long ago, and so it's our pleasure to have both of you on ours to share about this. So for those who aren't familiar with your podcast, haven't checked out your new book or any of that stuff, just tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do.
Jo M. 00:59
Wow. Well, thank you for the amazing introduction, Collin. That was lovely. And actually, like we loved having you on our podcast as well. So no, it's really, really fun. So yeah, hi everyone. I'm Joe. You'll get to chat to Vicky in a minute, I'm sure when I shut up. But we are canine Business Academy, as Collin has said, and essentially what that means is we are business strategists, helping the dog profession earn some more money, have a better quality of life, a bit more freedom, but whilst delivering incredible services To dog owners out there, really. Oh, and Vicky,
Vicky 01:44
yeah, echoing everything Joe said, Really, yeah, that's exactly what we do. We help anybody who has a dog business. So that does include pet sitters, dog walkers, predominantly trainers, but yeah, we're happy to support
Collin 01:59
so what is the what is both of your backgrounds in in kind of the pet industry, and how do you do you find yourself here?
Jo M. 02:06
So we got the joys of doing it over. Zoom, you see, we're normally a bit more in synchromeru, in person. Yeah,
Vicky 02:12
it's not, it's not as in tune. Is it over? It?
Jo M. 02:15
Oh, no, we'll get into our flow. But um, no, we are both trainers, behaviorists, whatever label you want to give us as that title. And collectively, we've been doing it for 27 years. I think we worked it out of it wasn't now. So, yeah, so Vicky's background was, Well, I'll let you explain your your scratchiness of a background, well,
Vicky 02:37
I do call it scratching. And we thought this was, like, maybe not an international term, but we thought it was a national term. And it turns out it's actually a Birmingham term, which is where we're from. So I, I called what I used to do spratting, because there was lots of bitty stuff, bit of this, a bit of that, trying to make a bit of money here, trying to make a bit of money there. My training was very like ad hoc. I would do a class when someone asked for one. I'd do a one to one session if somebody asked for one. And that's it. You know, I did, had no kind of long term plans in place or anything like that. And I also was a dog walker and a pet visitor, I suppose. So I didn't do stay overs, but I did do kind of pop ins visits and that kind of thing. So and yeah, my very like initial background was rescue. So I used to work in a rescue shelter, as you would call it over there. And I just got the passion for for dogs. And yeah, wanted to help. And started with puppies, and kind of then grew to everything and anything that involved dogs really
Collin 03:39
well in speaking of business strategy, right? I love that term, by the way, scrapping. I'm going to write that down over here, because I feel like that is how a lot of our businesses start. Is a little bit here, a little bit there, and then at some point we start to feel like we need something more. So from your perspective, what's that first step for somebody who starts going, hmm, I'm doing this kind of ad hoc or a little bit here and a little bit there. How do I start organizing this into something that's actually more more concrete?
Jo M. 04:11
Oh, it's a it is a bit of a challenge. And I think for for me, I think the biggest thing is to actually recognize that you're at that stage. I think as soon as you are realizing that actually you want, dare I say, you want more for yourself, you want more for your clients. You want more for your family and friends. So we're not going, Oh God, I feel like all I'm doing is working and I'm not bringing in enough money. Clients are starting to really annoy me. And you know, when you just get that feeling of frustration and everything is just hard work, you almost wake up with that. You know what? What employed people say of like that Monday morning dread, but it's every single day because you find yourself working or the evenings or the weekends, all the time that you don't want to be doing. And I think when. You hit that point of I can't do this anymore, then it's the time to almost I feel, I feel like we are definitely going to coin this phrase, and I feel like we definitely need to get some merch out there, but you're just going to go right hashtag, no more scratching. Not happening, not doing it. I can see the merch everywhere. It's coming, it's coming. And
Vicky 05:29
actually putting myself back in that position where I was scratching around, I had that realization of going like that. Something needs to change here. This is not good. This is not good for my mental health. It's not good for me, just being here, there and everywhere and trying to please everybody. And I think, I think this is a big thing in this industry, we are over delivering. Well, it's kind of a two prong thing. Would you agree, Joe, we're kind of over delivering. On one hand, staying longer than we should, doing all the over and above stuff, not charging enough, like the fees aren't high enough, and then getting really frustrated with that, and almost resenting it, and then starting to go, I hate the clients. It's their fault. They're the ones who have put me in this position. And actually, is it? And that's the question I think we need to ask ourselves.
Collin 06:19
Yeah, that that? Oh, it's so you you said that. And I had so many flashbacks to when Megan and I were just starting out, and then we had those clients who paid us money, and they we liked their dogs, but my goodness, every time we saw that booking request come through, we just kind of sat there and went, because, you're right, we get ourselves in that position of what are we doing? And you've mentioned that going over on time and kind of giving that away, because we do it one time, and then it's kind of easy to do it the next time and the next time, and then we feel guilty when we don't do it, then becomes expected for how we operate, and then we aren't able to do it one time, and then the clients can have this, this reaction against that, and all of a sudden we're left going, Oh, but I didn't that's not really what I wanted anyway. And we do find that piecemeal approach really does lead to this massive amount of disorganization in our business.
Jo M. 07:07
Yeah, massively. And I actually think that that disorganization can come down to we're not spending any time really understanding the client's needs. I think when we're working in an animal sector, a lot of us really go all in on thinking about the animal and so, so for us, it was always about, oh, how do we how do we learn about the dogs? And, you know, we kind of go over and above understanding dog behavior and the dog psychology and the dog's needs and all of this, but then, from a business point of view, we're going, Well, hold on one second, the dog isn't going to buy our services. It's not the dog that ultimately gets to make the decision. It's the person that's attached to it. And I think a lot of us naively go into the animal sector thinking, Oh, I don't like people. I'm gonna avoid people, and I'm gonna go and work with animals. And I hate to say it for everyone listening, but I'm sure you recognize it. Now you're not in the animal sector. You are definitely in the people sector. You cannot avoid it. They are part and parcel of everything. And I think that that disorganization comes down to almost, like, I say, like that naivety, bit of we've completely overlooked that we are in that people world, and then we give ourselves these labels of, I'm not a business person. I'm not this person. So therefore we almost excuse the behaviors, and we just put it down to, oh, well, I am disorganized, and I'm not a business person, and I hate admin. I'm here to do the dog thing, and this is where it gets a little bit messy. I love your face on this, Colin, it's
Collin 08:51
just, yeah. I mean, when you're saying that I'm not a people person, I hate admin. We do label ourselves with those things, and then we end up just saying, right, I'm just here for the dogs. I just want to dogs. I just want to do dog walks, all right? I just want to do training. I just Just let me pet the cats. And what we do forget is, right, that's fine, but in order to get to the point where you're in a client's home taking care of their cat, there are about 100 steps dealing with people and administrative overhead that we've got to work through in order to make that so we're really understanding what's required of me in order to make this a thing.
Jo M. 09:31
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think Vicky, you've definitely gone on like we talk about it a lot and over on our podcast, but yeah, Vic, I think your journey definitely needs to come in here.
Vicky 09:41
Oh yeah, yeah. I didn't even think of myself as a business owner. It that's how bad it was. Like I started a business. I was self employed. I did all the necessary things ticked, all the boxes, got the tax bit sorted, you know, set up a business bank account, and all of those kind of things. I was like, well, that's just what you do. But no part of me ever felt like I own, like I owned the business, but I didn't own it in like, a really proud way. I didn't act like a business owner, and I didn't, I suppose that professionalism, I thought was there, and I think it was there in my own way, like I did always put those clients first, and I I did very generic stuff. I suppose the services that I offered were what everybody else offered, and that's as far as I kind of thought my capabilities were. So I was very, I think, like limiting myself a lot, and then when I realized that you could do anything in exactly any way, you can get really creative. One of the things we talk about a lot in canine Business Academy, actually, is getting creative thinking outside the box. You don't have to do everything that everyone else does. And as soon as you get that freedom of going like, oh my gosh, I can literally structure this how I want to, I can work with who I want to. I can niche if I want to. I cannot if I don't like it's really empowering and really freeing. And then as soon as I I thought like that, I just the whole business piece all came together for me, and I suddenly started acting like a like a CEO and a proper business owner. So yeah, there
Collin 11:15
is that mindset of of owner versus operator, and sometimes we do get stuck in that operator mindset. How did, how did you flip that switch? Or any, any tips for people to help get them out of that rut of, well, I'm just here, and the business is this thing, but I don't control it, right? Like that, making the jump from I'm just here to do the tasks to I dictate, like, that's a big jump to in our minds to understand what we can do. Yeah, and
Vicky 11:42
actually, that's a really interesting point you make. It did feel and me and Joe had this conversation actually only a few weeks ago. It felt like I was employed. It's gonna sound really weird, employed by myself in my own business. I don't, I don't know why I felt like that, but that's how I felt. And I think I genuinely think as soon as I actually realized who it was I was trying to reach the purpose of me and the purpose of the business, and actually looking bigger and looking like beyond the small like it wasn't like I grew that business, business, in the end hugely. It was that I just had that stepping out of myself. So I think I almost was, like, working in my own shadow, and then just go in, like, I think it was when, you know, having the advice to just go, like, why are we just offering the things that we're offering? Why are we not just thinking a bit more creatively? And for me, that was definitely the catalyst for thinking differently in terms of running that business as well. But I suppose everybody's journey is going to be slightly different on that. But you might actually be a good one, Joe, to talk about that with your journey, because it's very different.
Jo M. 12:49
Yeah. So I think that the mindset bit is, may I think I'm you get these two extremes, don't you? With people working in the animal sector, you get the ones that go all in from the off, and that's always what they've wanted to do, like they've grown up with animals, and they're an animal person, and they're like, yeah, yeah, I'm in. I mean, I'm in. And then you get the ones that fall into it, like, they get their first dog, or they get the first cow, whatever it is. And then we go, like, Oh, now I like this, and now I'm interested. So I'm that that secondary category that I grew into it like I'd always liked animals, but I didn't grow up with dogs. My family hate animals like they're really no, don't understand it furry. Don't trust them. What's going on. Can't tell what they're thinking all of this. And I was the anomaly. I always used to say that I'm sure I'm adopted, because I'm definitely not like any of you. And I went down that route of getting a job and worked myself up to quite a senior position in a corporate ad agency working with super high impact clients, like 80 hour work weeks and everything, and then got myself a husky, my very first dog, and dealt with all the backlash from everybody out there going, like, Oh, what are you doing? Like, you stupid person? And I'm like, Nope, I'm going to do it and I'm going to do it properly. So I fell into it from a hobby side of it, and for me, I think I don't know, maybe it was my background of being in corporate for so long. Maybe it was just I was so used to almost running businesses to a sense, but I always knew that actually, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to be bloody successful at it. I'm not going to just go in and, I don't know, just be the air quote norm. I'm not going to go in and just play with these dogs. I'm going to do it and I'm going to do it like next level. If you've ever heard of Grant Cardone, it's like 10x I'm going to 10x everything, man, we're going to do it like this. So I went in with that, that business mindset immediately. And it took me, like. Less than a year to realize that all the advice that I was hearing within industry was so catastrophically wrong and so catastrophically damaging to not only the business as a business entity, but for its for its staff, for its business owners, and ultimately, the end user, these, these dog owners out there, because they're receiving an incredibly poor service from us. It's it's just not good, and that advice is coming like top down from within our own sector. So for me, I think that's where we're we feel really passionately and really strongly about trying to empower anyone in this sector to go there is a different way we can do it, like Vicky has mentioned, like, being really creative, and I think jumping into that headspace is really difficult, but I'm a big believer of if, like, even if you're feeling inspired by anything that we are saying, then there is something in you to go, Hmm, something doesn't feel quite right, and I need to do something. And for me, I think it's genuinely about finding your people. Find somebody out there. And of course, we would love it if that was us, but it may not be, and that's okay, but go and find somebody that inspires you to do something different and to and supports you on that journey. Because I think as soon as you've got that, that's where the jump is a lot easier to make.
Collin 16:33
What would you say is, are some of the most damaging or maybe just limiting beliefs that people have out there, or that advice, like you were saying, Joe of Yeah, everybody says this, but it actually doesn't have the effect that they want. And you end up limiting yourself in your business. I mean, when you are working with people or interacting with other businesses, what are some of those commonly held beliefs that you see people have
Vicky 16:55
go on? I think you'd be good to do this bit. Okay,
Jo M. 16:59
so limiting beliefs I think people have is I'm not good enough. I'm not a business owner. Nobody wants this. Nobody wants to pay for anything. People don't care about their animals as much as I do. Actually really damaging. One is how we feel about our competitors. Like I don't like that person. And this is where we then start to almost resource guard your own business, then by going, hold on, like, Don't you dare send that, that, that poor dog, to that person down the road, because I know how they operate, and I just can't live with that on my conscience. But what ends up coming across is we then start doing this bashing thing. And then how are you going to attract somebody to want to work with you? If you are then publicly slamming somebody else? But these are these limiting thoughts that we are constantly telling ourself that there's rubbish people out there. We're not good enough. You can't make any money from it. You have to work evenings and weekends. You have to do all the stuff that that you don't want to.
Collin 18:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No question.
Vicky 18:10
I was gonna say, actually, following on from that, I used to be part of a franchise of dog trainers, well, Puppy trainers, predominantly in this in the UK, and that resource guarding, that is something that they that is something that they used to almost promote within the organization. So because it was a franchise, you had a territory, so you'd have like an area that you would like be allocated, and there would be lots of these trainers across the UK. And I ended up being a regional manager for this company, and had to manage people in their areas. And what we were told is, like, you you need to guard your little area, not only from external trainers that were nothing to do with the organization, but the actual organization. So it's kind of breathing that that kind of like, No, you're not coming near me, and I don't want you to know what I'm doing. Like, very sort of like, it really isn't that collaborative, connective piece that we're trying to promote. And I think that if that organization is doing that kind of thing, then what are the next ones doing as well? So yeah,
Collin 19:20
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Speaker 1 19:24
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Collin 19:42
you're looking for new pet sitting software, give our friends at time to pet a truck. Listeners of our show will save 50% off your first three months by visiting time to pet.com/confessional well, and if you know that, if you're have some people who are treating others in the industry like that, doesn't really have. Give good feelings, and then what are the other people going to do? Well, they're going to go, Okay, well, that's fine. You don't want to know what I'm I can't know how you're doing. You're not going to know what I'm doing. And then we just build these little silos. And I see it especially damaging across bits of the industry. So you know, dog trainers tend to be in their silo, and pet sitters are in their silo, and the veterinary are in their silo because they're all in their own profession, and kind of like, No, you stay over there, and I'm going to do this, this thing. And what that does is, is it really leads to it. I think, you know, Vicki and Joey both were talking about this, like, that leads to a bad experience for the pet owner, right? If everybody's just saying, Well, I don't know, but I'm over here at my silo, and if you want to come over here, that's fine, but I can't a, I can't speak to anything that they're doing. And B, I don't want to, but that's a really bad experience. And just life for a pet owner, if there's not help or a support or community around them,
Jo M. 20:53
yeah, it's, it's something that's really it's quite sad, isn't it? Like considering everybody in this sector is theoretically doing it for the dog, the animal. And, yeah, we seem to get so stuck in, I don't know, like these, these human ways of just like, Nope, you stay in your lane. I'll and you do your thing, and I'll do my thing. And then if we have to come together, then actually, I'm just going to keep it at a distance. And it's like this lack of trust just seems to overtake everything. And certainly in my experience, I think this is where some of the poorest business decisions can be made. And you know, I'm going to hold my hand up and say, in the early days, when I first started training, I was absolutely one of those people that I think I even actually said these words out loud to people inquiring with me, going, Oh, you don't want to go with that person, because they train this way. And that wasn't even necessarily my opinion. That was because it was like being bred in the groups that I was coming up in and learning with you kind of adopt those people's mindsets and thoughts, and that seemed to be the thing to do. And then as soon as I heard, like, the, you know, when you just have that instant regret, like you've accidentally sent a text message to the wrong person, you're like, oh God, it was that kind of thing. It's like, these words left my mouth, and then I had this outer body experience of, there's no way I'm going to claw that back. Just own it and don't do it again. And it was a massive like epiphany moment for me to go, jeez, where on earth has that come from? And that realization that that's in industry that's not even my own thoughts.
Vicky 22:42
Yeah, I would say that's a broad issue, whether it's across the dog training side or dog walking. Like, from my experience of dog walking exactly the same, if I don't take that dog on, I don't know what the next person's capabilities are. I don't know whether they can be trusted walking your dog, because your dog is so specific, and like, I need to do that. And it's all that again, it's like, we don't trust anybody, and if we don't know, why don't we find out? Why don't we try and start a conversation and ask the person and find out a little bit about them? If we need somebody to refer to, then we should be asking these questions, as far as we're concerned.
Jo M. 23:20
Yeah. And actually, that's how Vicky and I met, because we wanted to learn from different people in our local areas. We're about a 30 minute drive away from one another, and I wanted to do some research into what was what was out and about. There reached out to so many people, like massive email blasts, like the inquiry forms and stuff on people's websites. Vicky was the only person that came back to me and said, Yeah, come along, come watch what I do. I was like, Really, that's incredible, because, like, nobody else is doing it. No else is doing it. And now look where we
Collin 23:56
are. Yeah, now I was, I was going to say that's I hear that a lot of you know, I could never reach out. What community are you talking about? Nobody wants to interact with me. I've reached out to so many people, and I don't hear back from them. What do we do in those situations if we don't feel like we have that community around us?
Jo M. 24:18
Oh, it's a great question. Funnily enough, I was actually doing some work on on this today. I've been in some training for myself today, and I feel like I'm gonna totally balls it up now, but there's three P's. So it's being purposeful, persistent. And I knew I was gonna forget the third P, it will come back to me at some point, but that purposefulness and persistence of Hold on. I am a professional. There you go. So being purposeful, professional and persistent in going. I know that I need to show up and I need to do this stuff. I know that I need to reach out for my business. And I think sometimes this is where I think this is. Another hard lesson that we all have to learn, that you are not your business, and we have to detach ourselves. I love your reactions to this Collin, this should absolutely be recorded. Yeah, you have to detach yourself from the business, and it's really, really hard when it's you building it, it's your baby, it's your thing, but you are not the business. So when you are looking at it from that purposefulness and that professional and being persistent in trying to reach out to these communities, if you know it's the right thing to do for the business, you will persist. You will keep doing it. If you're not doing it for the business and it's more about yourself, then I mean, ultimately, there's a load of personal development stuff that we need to be doing on ourselves and our mindset. Because that's that's a really obvious projection in my eyes, that if the first rejection we hear back from someone is that, oh, I can't possibly do anything else. Then, then we're like, right? That's coming from somewhere else. That's got nothing to do with that other person. It's got nothing to do with the business, but a whole lot to do with ourselves, which is probably a whole other podcast episode in itself. It's a big topic. It's a good topic. Yeah, yeah,
Collin 26:19
yeah. Vicky, why did you say yes, you know, knowing that the community was out there kind of not doing this kind of thing, and you get a request from some person, and you say, Yeah, sure, come along. Like, what? I mean, that's a pretty big risk for a lot of people, because they would say, oh, they'll know my trade secrets, right? They'll know all my Secret Juju sauce. They'll figure it out, and then I'll have no competitive advantage. But, you know, inviting somebody to, especially to come along and see what's going on, like, that's that's a big step.
Vicky 26:43
Yeah, I don't know. I think it's just the way I've always thought about having a business is I don't need to hide it. No one's going to do it the way I do it anyway. So even if they copy me, even if they try and mimic everything, they're not me. So I think that just always sat okay with me. And over the years, I got a lot of requests for people to come and watch and learn and volunteer with me. I actually got some really good employees from coming to volunteer for you know, and the way I look at it is they're willing to give their time away for free, then I'm willing to give them some knowledge, and if it helps them, and it progresses their journey, and maybe they might not want to be a dog trainer, because they actually see what goes on, that's fine as well, because I've helped. And so I felt like it was my duty, really, to go, like, if you're willing to give your time and help me put the chairs out, collect them back again, talk to people you know, with little queries they could help with that was appropriate. Then I yeah, I just thought, if I can help somebody, I can help somebody, and if they copy me, well, I'm flattered.
Collin 27:52
It definitely is these, like, you know, these, these two themes of, I am not my business in that. And I love how you said that, Joe, because many times we do, we get personally hurt, and we don't want to do something personally, because I don't like that, but when we say, but for the good or betterment of the business, I have to go forth and do this. I've got to make these points of contact. I've got to do this kind of advertising. I've got to do this stuff for because that's what's good for the business, and that's good for the integrity of what's going on. And then on the flip side, hearing, you know, Vicki, your side going well, also, I have a duty to the industry if I really believe that what I'm doing is is a standard and is is good practice to be followed, why wouldn't I want to show more people and educate them on what those actually are like? There's that mindset of I go from my daily tasks and scrapping every second of every day two, there's something much bigger here and there's there's a much larger purpose and direction that I'm heading that I can actually be a part of, and that really helps set us up for success when we need to make hard decisions or when we need to figure how we best can conserve our clients, too.
29:01
Yeah.
Vicky 29:02
And maybe I was going to say, maybe, looking back, it was always there for me to go, like, welcome people in and say, like, I'm happy. Because in canine Business Academy, we do a lot of free content. And because we want to reach as many people as we can, we want to support people. We've got a free Facebook group. We do training in there. We've got the podcast, obviously, we've got all of this knowledge, and so we feel it's our duty to get it out there. And then looking back at that training business and the walk in, actually, as well, I used to get people come and volunteer and help at the walk in as well. I'm trying to just like, spread that knowledge as much as I can, so the more we can get into that mindset, I guess, of going like it isn't you, they can't recreate it exactly. The content might be the same, but it's not going to be delivered exactly the same. Yeah, I feel like that is kind of our purpose, and it was on my purpose back then, and it's my purpose back now in a different way.
Jo M. 29:58
Yeah, I always just try. In in these situations, see if there's anything logical that you can tell your brain. So if it's, oh, well, they're going to copy me and they're going to do all this, well, let's, let's try and pick it apart logically then. So let's go back to the very first thing that this may sound controversial to some people, but if you're being really honest with yourself, we are all doing it for for the money. We are doing it to pay our bills. Like that is a fundamental thing that we all need to do. If anyone's interested in the psychology bit of it, or you only have to look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, to know that that safety need is the very first thing that you need to do, and that safety bit comes from paying your bills. So let's even just look at it from a nice, simple number of let's assume we need to pay our bills, and they are $2,000 a month. That's that's what we need to be paying. So if I can earn, let's say two and a half 1000 a month, then I'm good. I've actually got more than I need, and I'm good. If you're earning four or 5000 brilliant, your outgoings are only two, two and a half, so it's okay. You're good. How many clients do you need to serve to get that 5k let's say now, or even the two and a half, if you literally just want to pay your bills and just have what you know like a a bare minimum life type thing. So how many clients do you need to be able to hit that first ladder on Maslow's hierarchy? How many clients do you need to be seeing to feel safe and when you work out that number, it's unlikely to be huge amounts. You're not going to need to be seeing hundreds of people. It's going to probably be less than 10, probably even less than eight, depending on your fees. And this is where that that thought process has to come in on how are you structuring your business so realistically, and maybe even if you're not pricing your your services in a way to pay your bills, and you are just scratching and we're putting loads of stuff out there, you're still going to hit the capacity of your time. So what is that capacity? And let's say, for argument's sake, you have got loads of low ticket stuff, and now you're seeing 20 people. Well, how many people are in your local area? How many of those peoples have pets that need your service? Whatever that service may be, quite a lot. So you are not going to be able to see more than your capacity. And ideally you want to flip it and go, I don't need to see any more to have the lifestyle that I need if I get my fee structure right. So try and tell your brain a bit of logic. It's hard because we're emotionally attached, and this is where we have to detach ourselves from the business. But I think it helps sometimes to look at it and go, it's not that bad, right?
Collin 33:01
Well, and then we have to. Then once we start kind of gaining traction, we reach, do reach that point where it is very easy to all of a sudden having taken on too much, because we just start saying yes to people right? Because we maybe we didn't quite get our numbers right, or we never did our numbers right, and we're just viewing this life out of deficiency of what is enough, I don't know. I'll just make myself as busy as possible, and maybe then that will be fine, right? But that's a that's a mindset thing that we run into, and so we then have to balance this. I have to run my business, and in some instances, I do have to be efficient, right? And that's, that's kind of an ugly word in pet care, because it means that maybe I'm not spending all that time, or I'm not going over like Vicki talked about, or I'm not doing these extra above and beyond things. I do need to be efficient and run a business, but also I don't want to sacrifice the level of care that I'm giving my clients. We kind of have to walk around balancing this efficiency versus the care that I'm providing. What kind of guidance can you give about how to walk that line and maybe give us absolution for deciding one over the
Vicky 34:08
other. I suppose, like we talk a lot about a win win situation for you and your clients, and I think whatever you're offering as a service, however you're operating, what allocation of time you're giving it should always be a win win for both of you. So if there's ever a question in your mind of what you're doing is winning for the client a lot more than it's winning for you, that's where I would start to go, Hmm, something should be rebalanced here, because it's not going to work long term, because that's where you get the burnout happening, the overwhelm, the resentment about the business, the resentment about the clients, all of those things that we hear and see so much in this industry, and I'm sure you do as well, that those are where these things come from, because there's that lack of of kind of bad. Boundaries, aren't we? We're a little bit funny on our view of boundaries. I think boundaries are good to a point, but boundaries can be looked at in a very, very strict way, or they can be looked at in a way that it suits you and it suits the client as well. So again, we're back to that win, win. If the boundary needs to be pushed a little bit and it means that it's a good thing for both of you, awesome. If it's actually I'm going to push that boundary, it's going to do me a disservice, and I'm going to suffer. Then it shouldn't be.
Jo M. 35:31
I just want to, like, still collect all of Collins faces on this when you said boundaries, though he's like, oh, there
Vicky 35:38
are some good there are some good faces, yeah,
Collin 35:42
especially with the boundaries, because I we that there's a word that's thrown around an awful lot, and then I do think that many times it is thrown out purely as a protective measure, as a protective measure of don't hurt. This across this line, I do not go because I get hurt. And when we can start. I love how you phrase that, of making that boundary a win win, or at least helping people understand why it's a win win and viewing it, because sometimes we can resent our boundaries. I don't know if you've ever been there, if you're like, No, I said I wasn't going to stay up late or work on my emails, and then that's why I'm never away. You know, I'm never ahead on this, or I can't get ahead. Or I said I was never going to do this for a client and and that's why nobody picks me, or blah, blah, blah, but instead going, No, I have this boundary so that I can hold to my integrity, and also it's a level of a high quality of pet care that I think more people deserve, and they need to understand that, or education, whatever, but making sure that when we set those It's not purely out of a protective because it can be a proactive sense as well. Of going this can actually be a very good thing for everybody involved, instead of just feeling like we're having to tell a client no or be a stick in the mud about stuff.
Jo M. 36:54
Yeah, it's such an interesting one. And you know what? The longer Vicky and I spend in canine Business Academy. I don't know about you, Vic, but boundary almost has like that ick effect on me now where I'm like, Oh God, at that word again. It's like, it's like, a real negative connotation for me. And I think I don't know. I just don't think there is such a thing as boundaries. I think, like I said, the fact that it actually makes my skin crawl. Now, if somebody says, like, you need to set some boundaries, I'm like, Ooh, okay, why? What's going on here? And I think it's because, realistically, in life, one of our coaches and mentors that that we have talks a lot about I don't think you can have a balance of life. I think everything is a dance, and it's okay. So which partners making the move here? And how do we work together? And then where's the solo bit, and then, and it's just a really nice way of looking at it, I think, because I don't think there is such a thing as balance. I mean, me personally, I've got a got two boys. I've got a five year old and a three year old. We are home educating them. We've got the full time business. I'm in full time uni. There's loads of stuff going on. So in some ways, some people could look at that and go like, Oh, okay, well, really, plan out your time then. So put those boundaries in that clients can only contact you between x and x, and you switch off on these days, and you home ed on these days, and you uni on these days, and to an element or to a degree like that, that is the case, but it's not as strict or clear cut as it is, because, well, if I'm at uni one day, and then if the kids are sick, then that uni day goes, because The kids become the priority, and I think it's almost it's being selective on what you are going to allow to be in your top 10 priorities, and knowing that none of them are ever going to be number one, they're going to change. It's going to be fluid. So depending on what happens on that day, it you should have that flexibility and adaptability to go right, that's just needs to move to the top. And actually, that's a skill in itself, which I think not many of us are taught, or we even consider it, that the adaptability is more important than having that boundary set in place. And one thing that Vicki and I will always, I'm going to say, Get kickback or a little bit of pushback, because it's a scary thing. In our dog training business, we offer 24/7 What's up support? And people go like, are you crazy? People are going to take the absolute Mickey with you here. They are absolutely going to be messaging you all hours. I can't possibly do that. And I think the difference is, we've set our business up so well that people that we allow to come into our world. And I think this is that difference of we're not grasping, we're not scratching, trying to get every bit of work coming in. We're very selective with who comes in. And. Because there is that almost that equilibrium, I suppose, of that respectfulness on both sides, because it is a win for them and it is a win for us. There is not a case of it is a win for the client and a lose for us. It is never a case that is a win for us as a business and a lose for the client. So everyone's really respectful of everything. And in actual fact, if we genuinely got a message at 11pm and I happen to see it and I happen to want to reply to it, awesome, I'll do it. And if I don't, then there's no problem either, because I'll get to it when I get to it. But I've never had it in 10 years of my business personally, where anyone has taken the Mickey, if anything, they never utilize it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It just doesn't happen. It's almost creates the opposite effect. Whereas I think the more defenses and the more boundaries you try and put in, and the more restrictions, then that's where you get that that polarizing effect, that's where you get more defensiveness coming in, and people are going to try and push those boundaries because it's too restrictive. So it's a it's a funny one boundaries. And there's a lot of people that I think will struggle with
Collin 41:11
that. Yeah, I've had to to work with that myself, of understanding, because I used to be a big time boxer, of this is the hour. This is the 15 minutes that I'm working on this thing. And this thing, and this is the 15 minutes I'm working on this thing, and then you quickly start to get frustrated with that, because all of a sudden it's like, well, I got a phone call from a potential client, but they called during my email time, and this is I'm only supposed to do even emails now, and this person had the gall to call me like or like with our kids, like I, I never, like, just, I can be working on the most important thing in the business, and a kid comes running in and they're bleeding from the arm, right? What? No, no, please stop the bleeding until I can be done waking, you know, working with my account, no, that jumps immediately to to number one, and I don't have to Gantt chart that out, or do an Eisenhower matrix, or do any sort of techniques to understand that. And we all have those things in our life, and as we start to know those and let those be fluid, it allows us, it stops a lot of that internal condemnation that we put on ourselves for not feeling like we're doing the right thing at the right time. So we can be flexible and adapt to that. And I love also hearing how you guys are. The screening process from your clients allows you to run a business that's a lot more relaxed than this high like stress thing of like, Oh, who's the client now? And God, instead going, No, everybody who we allow to work with us, that's a great phrase. By the way, everybody who I allow to work with me is going to be on a win win, and that really changes how we even talk to our clients and view them when they need things from us.
Jo M. 42:52
Oh my gosh, it's like the best thing you'll ever do,
Vicky 42:57
the best the best phrase to do with this is be the bouncer of your own nightclub. Oh
Jo M. 43:03
yeah. So you get to decide who comes in and who doesn't. And I think this is where that mindset stuff is so important, because if you are in scratchy mindset and fear because you don't know the numbers that you need to be making, so therefore you're not meeting that that safety level, then of course, you're going to be going, just think of the energy that you're going to be speaking to somebody, and it's like, Oh God, please, please, please, give me your work. I'm so desperate for it. And of course, you're not going to be saying those words, although I hope no one's actually saying those words. But you know, pretty close, yeah, it's going to come across, though, isn't it? Because you will, you will try and be more forceful, or you will try and do it in a way that, oh, it just feels really, really horrible and unprofessional. So when you start hearing yourself telling somebody why they should work with you, telling them all the bits and bobs that they're going to get, then I'm sorry, but we're not, we're not putting the customer first. When we're doing that, it's like, oh, so if you give me your money, you're going to get this hour from me, you're going to get this hour from me, you'll get like, five sessions. I'll come to you, we're going to do all and you start reeling off the stuff that you're going to do. You are not in service of that person, and you are definitely not acting like the bouncer. If you're in nightclub, then, because it should be the other way around. It's like, hold on, what's what's going on here? What are you like as a person? Do I think that that's going to be a good fit for this club, for this business? Is it going to work? And if the answer is no, it's okay, like, you'll know you're getting this right if you actually start turning people away.
Vicky 44:39
Actually, we had a message, and we were in a mastermind group with the guys that we've done coaching programs with previously. So they're in this like group mastermind. And someone put in there today, I said no to a client on the phone today, and she was really chuffed about it. Now most people would be like, what? And she's like, I'm okay with it. It's absolutely fine. The lady. Sound right? It didn't sound like we were going to gel. And I just said, I think it's best that I recommend somebody else. And for me, that was like a huge amount of growth in that person, because she would never have done that before. No,
Jo M. 45:13
no. It makes me so happy, though, when we are confident enough in our business's ability to find the right people that we can go, Look, I'm really sorry this business just isn't the right fit for you. Go and see this person over here
Collin 45:31
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Jo M. 46:47
yeah, it's, I'm interested to yours actually on this Vic one, I
Vicky 46:51
was going to say again, it's who you surround yourself with, because there will be people that say that is an absolutely stupid thing to do. Why would you turn down work? Why would you do that? You're going to miss out on money. And if those people are the ones that that person listens to, she's going to not think that she can do that. Whereas, if you've got people around you that are going actually, if you're looking at it in this way, and you are being very selective for your own like mindset, and for the person that you're going to work with and for it to be a successful outcome for them, because don't forget, it's all about them, and it's all about what they're going to get out of it. So we should be asking those questions and going like, What support do you need? How come do you feel we can support you, and if we're not doing that to the best of our abilities, then we're going to get ourselves in a situation whereby we're frustrated the clients, we hate them, we've got to see through a three month or worse still, six month program with someone we don't like and we cannot get on with, and they aren't receiving the information, or they're not doing the work, and we're going, why aren't they doing the work? Because we haven't actually found out enough about them and their own needs. So that's kind of my take on it.
Jo M. 48:03
Yeah, I think, I think that's hugely important that you surround yourself with. I think one of the phrases that most people will have heard of is that you become the average of the five people you spend most of your time with. So even if you are spending that time in Facebook groups like think about those Facebook groups that you're hanging out in. What's the type of the I'm going to like? Need a copy of this recording. Collin, Your faces are just brilliant. It's cracking. I love it. I love it. I've got little like shorts in my head already. Anyway, we digress. But no like, think about the Facebook groups that you are hanging out in, because if that's where you're spending a lot of your time, and let's face it, we all, we all go into that Doom scroll bit, don't we, and then it's so easy to get sucked into the comments. So you're like, Oh, okay. And before you know it, you spent an hour reading a load of negative things when and that you almost end up embodying that, that persona which, which is never going to be helpful. So yeah, I think definitely who you are surrounding yourself with. And also, I think it comes down to what has genuinely surprised me in the the period that canine Business Academy has been going, is the realization that people in general are not spending enough time being aware of their figures. They have no idea what money they need to make each month to feel safe. Maybe they've got a partner or somebody else doing the household bills and the rents and the mortgage and all of that stuff. Maybe I call these other people just the ostrich, because they're just going to bury their head in the sand and go, I don't really know what's going on. I've just got money in an account and money in an account, and it kind of comes and goes, and I just genuinely have no idea. And I think for me, I would love everybody out there to just feel empowered enough to go. It's more scary to not know the numbers than it is to know them, because you may not be far off feeling. Think safe as what you may think. And when we've done this exercise with people, some people have genuinely gone, oh my gosh, I only need to sell like, two, two more spaces a month then to what I'm already getting to feel safe. And we're like, yeah, exactly. And then others have gone, oh my god. Like, I'm a million miles off. I've got so much to do. And, yeah, it's scary, but at least we know now so and then we can start to put in the business tactics of right. What is the plan? How are we going to reach these many people? Then you start to do the fancy things of going right? You need to speak to X amount of people. Hopefully your conversion rate is going to then be X based on this number of persons. And you start to do the nitty gritty stuff. But you can't do any of that unless you know what it is you're striving towards. And I think this is where that confidence bit comes down, because if you've met that safety layer again, and you've brought the money in that you need to, then you if you then speak to someone on the phone who's a little bit of an ass, then you can just go, I'm sorry it's not a good fit, and I don't need to worry about bringing you on, because I'm good. Thanks. I've got enough money.
Collin 51:06
Yeah, well, and that's that's not to say that we, you know, say yes to all the bad fits until we start feeling safe. But it is because, you know, as Vicki said, like, this is going to be a long term relationship with somebody, right? But what we are saying is, what you are both are saying is going that you build smartly. You build intentionally, instead of just letting the wide open barn door and whoever comes in just happens to be there. And I say yes, and we kind of figure it out, no, it's it's a it. Now it takes us knowing what, not just many times we think of our my client, who target audience, who's my client avatar, right? I hear that a lot. We think of that for marketing purposes. We don't think of it as a relationship purposes of what kind of people do I work with? Well, and who do I want to have more of, not just so that I can figure out the targeting practices or Facebook ad or Google ad, but because I'm going to have a relationship with this person, if you're pet sitting, if you're petting a cat, okay, let's be very honest, if they get a new kitten, you could be seeing that same client for the next 20 years. Be very careful about who you allow into your business, because you may be with them for a very long time.
Vicky 52:14
Yeah, and that's a really good point you made there, because we are good at doing the client avatar thing for marketing, but are we doing it in real life? Because I think it goes out the window. Because, again, if you're not that comfortable in knowing who exactly it is you want to work with and that you've got those sums all sorted, you are going to just crumble at the phone call and go like, Okay, I'll do it, because it's back to that panic and that lack of safety thing again. And yeah, the client avatar work should go all the way through, like it's there's lots of layers to it, and it should be seen through to be really, truly successful. Yeah,
Jo M. 52:49
yeah, absolutely. I think even we, we lean heavy on alongside that, that client avatar of actually knowing the purpose of your business. And I think it's something that a lot of us overlook, because we go, oh, well, you know, like the purpose is to just, you know, help somebody sit their animal, or we're, we're going to train their dog, or that, that's the purpose of it. But it has to run deeper than that, so that, because that's what's going to impact your your marketing. That's going to impact who you're trying to reach out to. It's going to impact your client avatar, and because then once you know what your purpose is, so like for us at Canine Business Academy, our our purpose is essentially to support dog professionals have the business that is going to support their lifestyle whilst helping dog owners have amazing experiences and all of this wonderful stuff that goes with it. Now, if we had a, I don't know, I don't know why this thought has come to it, but we had, like a zookeeper come to us, we'd be like, Oh, well, technically, I can help you, because it's business, but actually you are not our client audience. So No, you're not coming into the club like being that bouncer, and that comes from knowing the purpose of our business, like, if we're here to serve dog professionals, to have all of this stuff, and then arguably, even if a dog professional came to us and then went, do you know what? Like, I just want. I want to bring in a load of money. I don't really care what it is. Then again for us, we'll go, sorry, you're not the right person for us because you don't meet this criteria. That's not the reason that canine Business Academy exists. So I think it's bringing in that purpose of your business, which is so crucially important,
Collin 54:37
until we sit down and define that for ourselves, it will be defined by the clients who come to our business. And that's the scary position that we can find ourselves in of going, Oh, I woke up kind of in my business five years on, and what even is going, what's even happening right now?
Jo M. 54:56
Oh, yeah, it's really common, is that,
Vicky 54:58
isn't it? Yeah, it's gonna fit. Like it is dictated to by the clients as well, and very often it is like it literally, that is how that business is being run, because we are too scared to say no to anybody. They're coming in. We're hating it. It's a big cycle, like just never ending cycle, and the burnout and then people leave. Like the amount of people that leave this industry, it just shocks me how many people are making no money. They're hating it, and they're leaving. And they're good people, people that should be in this industry, and they should be staying, and they're doing an awesome job, but they just have no idea where to start with that. That strategy,
Jo M. 55:38
yeah, it's it's just really sad, isn't it? And when he was saying then that the the clients are dictating everything, you'll know that clients are dictating in your business, because you'll find yourself putting on services that's that one person has asked you to do. Like, oh, you know that? You know you said that you do all this. Like you said that you do this, this puppy class, or whatever it is, can you just do a one off, one to one for me, and we'll go, Yeah, sure. Why not? I know you don't work the weekend, but could you just come and let the dog out for this half an hour? Only take half an hour? Yeah, sure. Okay, why not? And then before you know it, you've got this plethora of services. And then you get to that point where you're thinking, I do want to make a change. And then you may have somebody like us, who will then question going, Okay, so you've got all these products and services. Which ones do you really like doing, and which ones don't you? Why are we doing this one? And then they're still trying to almost defend the decision then, and they want to put more in, because you feel like you're going to miss a load of people out. And then you worry that you're not going to attract everybody. It's like, that's okay, but this is where, yeah, we're letting the client dictate to the business. And I don't know, like, if you look at it in real life, like we're not in real life, but like, you're not going to go to McDonald's and then say, Oh, can you do me a bucket of chicken from the colonel over at KFC. Like, no, if you want that go over there. Like, but somehow we end up turning into a McDonald's that now offers KFC as well, because someone's asked, and it's like, it just doesn't happen. So why are we doing it to ourselves?
Vicky 57:18
And it does come back to that fear thing, because, like with the dog walking example, if you only dog walk Monday to Friday, and someone asks you as a one off, to go and do a weekend one the thought process is, because I've done it, is to go, Well, if I don't say yes to that, they're going to then not want my services Monday to Friday, and I'll lose them, and They'll go somewhere else. And that irrational thought goes through. Got to take it. I don't want to. I've got so I'm going to cancel that, and I'm going to do that dog walk. So it keeps that client. And it's crazy.
Collin 57:55
It is, because then, like, we look up and we go, Hmm, I'm a dog walking company that's wholly subservient to three of my clients, and I'm trying to serve them every beck and call and every need that they have, instead of fulfilling this greater purpose of my business. You know, like you talked about Joe going, I have this other stuff that I want to be doing, but I actually end up hamstringing myself because I'm trying to be on call seven days a week, 365, days a year, for the five clients who may need me, right? And I don't take vacations anymore because they may need me that weekend, or I didn't go to the birthday party because, well, they may need me. And what if they say yes, and we do end up just letting everything kind of consume us. So if somebody's listening to this, and they are in that, that position of having a business that's running them that they're not feeling fulfilling, and what, what would be your your one piece of advice that you would give to that person to start getting pointed in a better direction?
Vicky 58:54
Well, actually, I just want to say before that that answer to that question that I think that people, if you, if you're the client, and you are dictating to the business owner, and the business owner to rolls around and says, Okay, I'll do whatever you want, their perception of that business owner is actually going to lower. It's not going to be elevated. They're not going to actually go they are awesome, because they always do what I want them to do. They're actually going to probably go, I'm just going to not treat you with probably as much respect as if you actually turn around and said no to me, yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah,
Collin 59:31
yeah, yeah, it does. Because, because they end up going, Oh, well, here's somebody I can push around, right? And the next time that they put give me a little resistance, I'll just push harder, because I know they're going to give in anyway, right? And then it becomes an adversarial relationship between those two people, you and your client. And that's that's not a win win, right? Let's think about stuff, right?
Vicky 59:51
No, it's absolutely not a win win. And yeah, and you'll find that that's how it it kind of goes. And again, I've been there, I've done it, and I felt like. That with people and go, like, Do you know what I gave up for you? And that resentments there, and it's like, Oh, I'm not going to do it next time. And then you have that kind of like talking to yourself, and you're like, not going to do it next time, and you do it next time, because, again, that fear is there. So unless that is addressed, that mindset is really addressed, and that personal bit of kind of say fixing, but it's not. It's working through it and understanding, why do I feel like that? Why do I feel all these things, and why are we going round in circles here until that is actually addressed and you recognize it within yourself. And this is again, with my own personal journey. There was so many things I didn't realize that I was doing, I'd absolutely no idea. And I really, really feel like it's for me like that out of body experience of being able to step back away from the employed Vicky and look at the this is now the business owner. Vicky was like, so massive for me. It changed absolutely everything for me. And it literally is taking a step back, looking at what you're saying, what you're doing, where those thoughts come from again, like, how can I start to change this or again, back to who am I surrounding myself with that is telling me those stories that I'm now telling other people?
Jo M. 1:01:17
Yeah, I always find it really fascinating when, when Ricky talks about this journey, because I was so different, and I actually think that this is why we work so beautifully together, that I I've never had that experience where I felt pushed over by someone, and I think it's genuinely because I I just, I don't know, I entered into business in a very different mindset of going, No, this is, this is how you do it, maybe not even how I thought, but it's like, right? I know that I want to do this, right? So for me, I invested in mentors and everything, pretty much straight away, very quickly, realized that for me, personally, I didn't want any mentors from the dog world, because I felt like my first year of it was just a bit poor with what I was hearing. I was like, it just didn't resonate. I was like, This doesn't feel right. Like almost being told that clients are the problem can't be right. It's good business advice, what's going on here? So I think for me, I chose to surround myself with people that were doing bigger and better things in different industries from the get go. So I had fear, but in a different way, like I didn't have that fear of, oh, they're not going to like me, or I'm going to lose business on that way. It was almost a Oh, okay, this is how to do things right. And the more I kept practicing it, and the more I kept thinking, I need to be putting the client first and become a very customer centric business and understand people and become really people oriented, and like transfer all of these dog skills that I've got with learning about psychology and behavior and applying it to the person. That, for me, is just the really exciting bit, and that's the bit I love to do the most. So, yeah, I always just find it really fascinating when Vicky and I are telling these stories, because they're just completely different experiences. Yeah, we've both had the same experiences in the in the dog world, if that makes any sense at all,
Vicky 1:03:21
but actually, Joe, your experience of not feeling confident and being not pushed over, that's not the right term, but it's actually in the dog knowledge part, because you've said that over the years, you've had a bit of that imposter syndrome about actually the dog skills and the dog knowledge and things like that. Whereas I've never had that with the practical side of it, but I've had it massively with the business. So it's almost like we've had the opposite experiences with with our journeys, really?
Jo M. 1:03:46
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's because, you know, when you feel like you're but I think it's because for us as well, like we've had those different backgrounds and and upbringings, if you will. Like Vicky chose to go into it from the get go, pretty much, whereas I was that hobbyist that fell into it. So when you're that hobbyist, you want to learn the craft, don't you? You want to go like, Oh, this is this is that I want to get my my teeth into everything, and certainly on the training and behavior side, like we know people are. So I'll put my hand up, I am guilty of having done every single course that ever gets released, and I have to go to that conference, and I have to read that book, and I have to do this, and it's one thing after the other, because I wanted to learn the craft. So for me, that imposter syndrome shone through massively, because it's a toxic environment in the dog world. We all know this, and yeah, I didn't feel confident because of falling in into it as as a hobbyist, potentially. So I spent more time in it. I spent more time in the toxicity, whereas Vicky probably didn't as much, because it was that I've kind of grown I've grown up with the craft. I'm trying to learn it.
Collin 1:04:59
But. But both of those are kind of cautionary tales of how we can identify a weakness or a place where we need more growth, and then all of a sudden that becomes where all of our focus is right, and I do nothing but and I'm so reactionary or sensitive about it that nothing is ever enough, and I am going to take all those courses. I mean, just many. How many times do you look up and you go, Oh, I am part of that mastermind. And, oh, that mastermind and, oh, look, there's four books over here. How much dust is on those? Oh, my gosh, I need it. Like, like, it happens, because we do that out of that kind of feeling of insecurity. And it's a on one hand, it is a good motivation to go to recognize, oh, I need growth there. But then it became, can be continued to be toxic in us, in our business, where all of a sudden it's all consuming, and I'm never confident enough, and I've got to, got to, got to, got to, and then it is all going to waste, because we never actually do anything with it, or even complete it, you know, in that sense.
Jo M. 1:05:57
Oh yeah, the implementation side of it is so important. Um, Vicki and I even actually, this year we decided that last year for us was a heavy investment year in mentors and coaches and masterminds and all the stuff that you know we've we've done for a while, but this year was like, No, this year we're going to implement, like we did a lot of implementation last year, but this year, we're almost like it's that next level. It's right, no more distractions. We even did like a strategy day ourselves the other day, and just did a big reflection on the year. Just gone and gone like this worked really well. This is where we need to work harder. This is the focus for this year, and focus was actually one of the things for our goals. Like, no, we are going to focus on on achieving this, and we're going to actually sit down and not get distracted. And the next 12 months is all about implementing the top five things that we've identified we need to do for our business.
Collin 1:07:00
Well, Joe and Vicki, I really want to thank you both for coming on the show today and sharing with us and encouraging us to be intentional and to have the confidence to both look at our numbers or utilize our numbers to make good business decisions and continue to recognize that that this is a people business at the end of the day, and that that is something we can lean and should be leaning more into I know that there's a lot here. I actually have loads of questions over here I didn't even get to so I'm already guaranteed a second interview with you all to come back and finish these. So we've got that. But for those who want to follow up with you, see all that you've got going on, how can people get connected and start learning from you? I'm going to let
Vicky 1:07:41
Vicky do this, because she does it so well, oh, do I Okay? Well, I think first and foremost, the best place that people can hang out with us is in our free Facebook community. So we're building really nice little space there where we want people to feel safe, they don't want to feel like they're being judged. And I feel really proud of that group, and we're making that really nice. So that is called CBA community. So if they just put CBA community into Facebook, that will come up. We've got the podcast, which is, let's talk dog business so you can find that on all the major platforms. And we've got a book called Let's Talk dog business strategy. Have to say it really slowly, because it's a bit of a tongue twister. And basically with the book, just to quickly explain, people are using it as a workbook. They're using it as take you through these steps. They're making notes. We're getting some awesome feedback that people are making notes, and they're implementing the stuff, and they're listening to the podcast, and it's kind of working really nicely as a little bit of a, yeah, as implementation and actionable steps that they can take. And actually the last thing to just mention quickly before I finish is that we've now got a paid membership, which is basically taking the podcast one step further, and our business mentors that we invest in are regular guests on there, and we deep dive, and we do master class cross podcasts. So we've called it the pod classes and actionable steps implementation is all about walking away with something that you can actually do in your business. So all those places you can get loads and loads of value.
1:09:19
Cool. Well,
Collin 1:09:20
that's very exciting. I will have links to all of those in the show notes and on the website so people can get connected with that. It's your book, podcast community. Just take it all in, right? That's but do something with it, right? Remember? Yeah, we'll do something with it when we do that, not just, not just listen. So, yes, implementation, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on having you both on the podcast. I really want to thank you for your time, for taking time out of your day to come and do this and for sharing everything. So thank you both so much. Thank you. Thank you Joe and Vicky. Thank you.
Jo M. 1:09:54
Thank you for having us. We absolutely loved it. Can't wait to come back back for another one. Yeah.
Vicky 1:09:59
Looking. Forward to part two already. Thank you.
Collin 1:10:05
Detach yourself from your business and act like the CEO it needs. Build intentionality. Say no when it doesn't serve you, and create a business that supports your life, not the other way around. I love the context of this, especially when we understand that just because we detach ourselves, it doesn't mean we stop caring or we become lazy or or nonchalant about our business, but it does mean looking and making decisions within our business from the outside, maybe with a little bit more unbiased and not with our emotion and attachment to our business. It really does help us see problems more clearly, and importantly, be more decisive in our corrective actions. We want to thank today's sponsors, time to pet and the peaceful pet music, Collin music for pets, YouTube channel for making the show possible. And we really want to thank you so much for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week, and we'll be back again soon. You.
