069- Nomad pet care and house sitting with Jen Tserng
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Summary:
What’s it like being a nomad pet sitter in New York City during Covid-19? Jen Tserng joins us to discuss what 2020 has been like for her business and offers advice on the importance of setting prices and planning for the future.
Topics on this episode:
Being a nomad travel house and pet sitter
Difference between international unpaid vs local paid house sitting
Covid-19 in NYC as a nomadic sitter
Just doing the job you’re hired to do
Recommendations for getting started
Raise your rates
Changes in the industry since 2012
What she spends her time doing these days
Rescue Rope Leads!!
Main take away? Raise. Your. Rates! And start planning for your future, today.
About our guest:
Jen Tserng is a physician turned petsitter who lives fulltime as a nomadic housesitter New York City. As an avid on demand dog walker, she created Rescue Rope Leads, a versatile leash that can add extra security to many dog walking scenarios. Her business model is driven by her pursuit of financial freedom, and Covid-19 has tested whether her business can stay afloat or pivot while living in the epicenter of the pandemic.
Links:
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Email us at: feedback@petsitterconfessional.com
A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, dog, clients, pet, business, walk, dog walkers, pet sitter, pandemic, pay, money, fido, sitter, rates, day, city, stay, charge, rover, thinking
SPEAKERS
Collin, Jen
00:17
I'm Collin and I'm Meghan. And this is pet sitter confessional. An open and
00:22
honest discussion about life as a pet sitter brought to you by time to pet.
Collin 00:28
What's it like being a full time 100% travel nomadic housesitting and pet care provider in New York City in the time of COVID. Jen sarin joins us today to discuss that and so much more from advice that she gives to people who are just starting out to advice we all need to hear about managing our prices and setting them accordingly. I'm so thankful that Jen came on and was able to discuss these and all the topics in today's show. Enjoy.
Jen 00:56
Hi, my name is Jen Tserng and I am dog walker and pet sitter in New York City. I've been nomadic since 2016. Which basically means I don't pay rent because I move from house to house. But
Collin 01:10
how did you get started in this this racket?
Jen 01:15
I started pet sitting in 2012 when I lived in Seattle, I was working as a medical examiner at the time, but the job didn't cover my cost of living. So there was this new app out called rover, they were a Seattle startup. And I just signed up to try to make a little extra money on the side. I'd always had dogs with my own and I worked with rescue for a number of years. So the concept of having a strange dog in my home was was pretty familiar to me already, only now I would be paid for it. So I didn't pet sitting for maybe about eight months when my contract was my day job and did so then after that. I just decided to stay in Seattle and see if I could pay the bill doing it full time. And eight years later, I haven't gone back to medicine. Oh,
Collin 02:11
gosh. So you started in Seattle? When did you make that shift over to New York City where you currently are.
Jen 02:19
I was in Seattle doing PET scanning for about three and a half years. And then I was just getting really, really busy. And I just decided that pet care is something that I can do anywhere. So I started to think about what I wanted to do next, looking into options. I had started really getting into boutique fitness by that time. So I interviewed for an unpaid internship in New York City out of Fitness Studio, and they accepted me so but they also asked me how I was going to pay my bills. When I lived here because the internship was unpaid, so I just said, Yeah, well, I'm just gonna house it in New York and not pay rent, haha. And then that's what I ended up doing. And five years later, I'm still doing it.
Collin 03:15
As you mentioned, you are 100% travel nomadic house and pet setting. What was it that triggered that mindset for you and how do you make that work on a daily basis.
Jen 03:26
When I started doing pet care in rover, I basically did everything so it was mostly boarding in my one bedroom apartment, lol, but I was also doing how studying and then some cats and things like that. So I had exposure to all of those things. And I also realized that people travel a lot, especially if you're in a major city. Someone is always traveling for business or for the holidays or just to go away for the weekend. Eat Drink. Things like that. There's so many people in a major city that they're always traveling. So I kind of knew that the demand was out there. It was just a matter of building my reputation in a new city. And it was nice because I already had about 300 reviews when I moved to New York. So when I parked my profile in New York, people could always already see that I was highly reviewed. That helped to start my business. Yeah,
Collin 04:27
those reviews really do go. A lot of people may. I don't know, some people may discount the importance of those. But seeing someone with a lot of reviews, or some really good five stars really does help rank you towards the top of people's lists, consciously or unconsciously on their part.
Jen 04:45
Yeah, it really does. And Grover isn't the only app or website you can use for house sitting. There are also some International House sitting websites out there. And a lot of the people who house that full time they will do it internally. Usually, but they'll also do it on paid. So there's a little bit of a difference between doing it locally in your area and paid for it, and then doing it in Spain for three months, and then France for 10 weeks. You know, and then California for six weeks. So it's a little bit of a different structure that people that move around a lot. They generally do it for volunteer because you can't get paid in a foreign country illegal unless you have a work visa. So there's different ways to do it. And maybe you get paid, maybe you don't. And then if someone is thinking of going nomadic full time, you just have to realize that there are a lot of different ways to do it. And then they differ a little bit.
Collin 05:48
So you're set up in New York for local paid housesitting. Howdy, what does that look like in New York and how are you structured?
Jen 05:55
The nice thing about rover is that if I have a house booked for two weeks, then I won't show up on the availability calendar for that two weeks. So if someone is looking for a house, it's they on booked until Monday, then someone who's looking for a house sitter wouldn't be able to find me unless their stay starts from Monday or later. So I think that's really helpful in terms of bidding these houses together. And then also by now I have enough regulars that if I have overlapping booking then they trust me just to do drop in visit for a night or two or or maybe they'll say, yeah, it's okay. If you bring another dog over here. I trust you with that. So that's really nice to be able to have some kind of continuity of care.
Collin 06:52
What do you do if those don't line up exactly what's playing be in in the life of a nomadic pet sitter.
Jen 07:00
Plan B is called apps like hotwire and hotels. And so the interesting thing for me that I learned when I started doing this is that generally when people are traveling, I'm going to be booked. So during Christmas holidays and things like that are going to be times where people are out of town and I will definitely be booked for a house it when, during the non peak travel times hotel rooms are actually pretty affordable in the city, especially if I booked something last minute, I can get a hotel room for as low as $49. I generally don't have to pay more than $100 in New York City, which is crazy and amazing. Just because the demand is low. So I generally try to have a budget of about a thousand dollars for hotel stays per month. And then as long as I stay below that, then then it's good. I recently found a boyfriend so I don't have to worry about the hotel thing anymore. At least not for now.
Collin 08:14
See boyfriend? Yeah. In the world of COVID-19, how has that impacted the way you operate? And you just described some of the precautions and some of the measures and plans that you have in place? What's it been like in New York City being a nomadic pet sitter in the times of COVID-19?
Jen 08:41
Yeah, so when coveri happened, and when the city went into lockdown, a lot of my clients were starting to work from home, or they ended up leaving the city. So then kind of the daily dog walks went away, and then all of the vacations weekend travel business ended up canceling. So So thankfully I had you know my boyfriend to fall back on so I was able to stay here but I have thought what if that option didn't exist? Then maybe I would have asked and I've been watching some pandemic cats so maybe they would have let me stay there maybe I would have left the city also and gone to stay with my parents. Things like that. So there were other options that I could have tried to do. Airbnb s are hurting pretty badly, even though they're technically illegal in New York City anyway, we can scratch that. Nevermind but um, yeah, okay, let's see here. So basically, daily dog walks were canceled and then the nature of the work shifted to watching a couple pandemic tech whose people had not come back to the city and then also a couple people asked me to water their plants. So that was more of my business. I also expanded my service area a little bit, because pre pandemic, I really tried to keep a tight service area to make it as efficient as possible. And then post pandemic, I'm willing to go out a little bit further in order to serve as clients. And as far as the sanitation procedures go, I generally just follow whatever the different buildings have for protocol. Most of that is just wearing a mask in the building, and then limiting elevator right? So so maybe you only ride with yourself or people in your household or people you know, definitely not more than three or four people in an elevator. But that isn't really a concern because there aren't as many people in and out anymore. So it's pretty, it's pretty Easy to keep distance from people.
Collin 11:02
One of the first thoughts that comes to my mind of high rises in New York in our hallways are is there been much concern or much thought into how people interact in these tight hallways, especially in in places of residence?
Jen 11:17
actually pretty rare that I'll see someone else in a hallway. And I feel that if you think about it, six feet is generally a decent amount of space. If someone was in my space, within three feet of me pre COVID that would have been a little beard unless I'm packed in a subway car. So I don't think it's that difficult to get space because I also think that with the clientele that I service, and I would be really curious to get the numbers. I've been trying to talk to the doorman, like, how many of your residents are still Yeah, right. Yeah. But a lot of people that could afford to leave the city have left the city or, for example, one of my pandemic cats, they had just had a baby before COVID hit. So I haven't asked specifically but I imagine that they're just sheltering with family right now and they haven't come back to the city. So because a lot of people left and they're not really going out anymore, then you don't really see many people in the building anymore.
Collin 12:30
What's it been like navigating public transit these days?
Jen 12:34
I haven't been underground in the subway since we had the lockdown. And before COVID I tried to have my service area. I wanted to make that all walkable because they really hate relying on public transit. It's really great when it's working. But if it's not, and there's something that happens I don't want to be stuck in an area of town for forever. 20 minutes because in the middle of the day time is money and I can't be 20 minutes late to a walk, it's gonna throw off my entire day. So I haven't been taking this subways, I will hop on the bus every once in a while because it gets a little lazy. But I feel like with the buses, I can easily tell my comfort level. So I can see in the windows, I can see how many people on there, they haven't been packed. But if they were packed or if they got to a point where I felt uncomfortable with it, then I can just hop off the bus and walk the rest of the way. So So that part has it been. It's been easy for me to navigate. And because I've always taken public transportation, even before COVID I always thought they were dirty places. So I'm the person that kind of stands up like I never tried to touch anything anyway. subway surfing, which is where you stand there but you don't touch any of the rails. Work on your surfing skills.
Collin 14:03
A lot of pet sitters dream of having access to such a huge market. I know where we're Megan and I are, we're in a town of about 20,000 people on a good day. But what's been I'm curious about what's been maybe some of your biggest hurdles in getting clients or structuring how you operate.
Jen 14:22
I'm not a good marketing person. I like to have jobs fall in my lap. But so, so I might be not a great person to ask about that. But I really feel like everyone I meet in New York City, and maybe this lady come to me or is looking for a good dog walker, there are a few people that say, Oh, I just absolutely love this dog walking agency. It's great. So I think that the market for a solid, reliable dog walker, personable trustworthy is there. It's just a matter of getting your name out there. There are a lot of dog walkers in the city who have been working for a long time that they, they don't have business cards, they're not on social media, they don't have a website, because everything is just word of mouth. And then the other thing about a city that's as dense as New York is that you really want to be in a small service area to make your work as efficient as possible. So sometimes when I get referrals, they're like, Oh, yeah, my friend lives 20 blocks from you. And I'm like, I don't go to that area because it's too far. So so it's really important to just network in the area that you want to work in. So talking to doorman or just being around and, and walking dogs in your area seeing other people that have that are out with dogs and just chatting them up on occasion. Even networking with other dog walkers which often happens when you're pre COVID stuck in an elevator and you're like, Oh, I see that carabiner keys. I know you're and then Jesus. And then you just kind of start talking shop and you're like, Oh, do you work for yourself? I want to go on vacation in February, do you think you could cover this dog? There's a building, you're here at same time. So that's a way that I've found to network with some people. But I really think that is just about having a good reputation getting those referrals. A rover certainly doesn't hurt my search radius is I believe it's a mile. So the inquiries that come to me are generally pretty close to me.
Collin 16:46
Yeah, that that really helps put it into perspective of your your search radius is a mile and just comparing to where we live in relatively rural like a mile gets you like 12 houses and that's just
17:00
It's a bit of an exaggeration. But yeah,
Jen 17:04
I picked up a wag walk since I have the time now. So I've been doing some more walks for wag and I picked up this dog in, in my service area. And then the instructions were like, oh, drop it off 20 blocks from here. And I just, my eyes rolled so far into the back of my head. I mean, it was fine. It was ultimately fine. firstworldproblems but like, I got 30 minutes to walk this dog 20 blocks.
17:34
Yeah, better. Better hop to it. Yeah.
Collin 17:39
When you first started, did you find it easy to approach those dog walkers that you saw in elevators and start conversations with them? Or has that been something that's developed over time as far as your networking with them goes?
Jen 17:52
It's definitely developed over time. I am very introverted, as are a lot of the dog walkers that work in the city. So sometimes it's just a matter of, Oh, this is the fifth time I've been stuck in the elevator with you. I guess I'll try to make these just so awkward. And then. And then just the more I've done it, the more than the more it just becomes natural to me. And then I just realized that it's kind of like a, like a safe way to start a conversation because who doesn't love God? Like, oh, let me make a comment about Fido. Or just ask about how businesses going or something like that. Just get to know them. If I see you around all the time, I should probably know you. Well,
Collin 18:43
we have we with other pet care providers have such a foundation of commonality of love and dedication to excellent care for pets. So what better way to start a conversation of I see you're caring for a dog. That's awesome. I care for dogs too. Like that's an instant connection. That's really easy. To make, right yeah. You mentioned earlier about why certain people are what what some clients are looking for in dog walkers. So how do you keep your clients on a regular basis coming back to you,
Jen 19:13
I try to do a good job. And I feel like in this day and age, doing a good job means means being reliable. It means being consistent. It means showing up when you're say you're going to and then also being accessible for communication. Sometimes I hear from other clients that they just don't hear back from their dog walkers. They don't know if their dog was blocked. So I think that's one of the things that my clients like about me is that I'm pretty responsive with text and messages. And then just doing the job that you I am surprised by the number of dog walkers that don't Take Fido out for 30 minutes when they're supposed to take Fido out for 30 minutes. Like it's, there's cameras everywhere now people have nanny cams, there's building cams, so you can't fake it anymore. Maybe you could fake it in 1983. But if you only take a dog out for 10 minutes, people are going to find out. So it's just those little things just being personable. I have a lot of flexibility. With my schedule. For example, I have enough business that when I'm booked, it's a little bit it's a little bit stressful just because I have to stay on schedule, and I have to really plan that out. So if someone cancels, then it's not a big deal. So sometimes they'll pay me if it's the day of and they realize that time is important, but if it's a client that I have more of a casual relationship with, they don't book Every week like it's no big deal just to reschedule and I think that some people appreciate that flexibility.
Collin 21:06
You call them the little things quote unquote, but just doing your job and being honest and communicating those sounds simple, but they mean so much to clients and they speak to your character as a pet sitter, that if you don't do the job someone told you to do or you signed up and getting paid to do. That's not okay. And once you break that trust and that understanding with a client, it very rarely comes back. And they will just move on to somebody else who will actually get the job done.
Jen 21:39
Yeah, and it's especially nowadays their pet sitters are a dime a dozen. I mean, how many good pet surfers out there that might be another question. But People sometimes ask what do I have to do in order to stand out What do I have to do to go above and beyond? And my answer because I'm a minimalist If you just do your job, and that's going to be enough for someone to come back to you, literally, I mean, you don't, that's really great if you do goodie bags and little handwritten notes and things like that, if that's your style, that's great, and I'm sure people appreciate it. But you don't have to do that in order for people to come back to you.
Collin 22:20
Part of that, too, is being consistent with them. And that can be really frustrating with somebody trying to grow their business or, or to attract more clients is I'm doing all of these things. What's Why isn't something Why isn't this working? And part of that equation is, well, now you've got to stick with it. Now you have to do this every single job every single day. And that too, works into bringing clients back of Okay, you did one time are you going to do it the next time you come and the next time and the next time? That two brings in repeat clients?
Jen 22:56
Yes, exactly. And then there is a little bit of room Learning to no one is going to start the business knowing exactly what they need to do like you said every single time so now I have a checklist for example, a mental checklist when I leave a cat visit like did you food Did you water do you litter? Did I play with Pat Did I make sure everything is in place the way founded did I lock the door to make sure the lock the doors locked. All of that evolved over time, just kind of second guessing whether I did it or not. And now I just know to run this checklist before I leave. But I do have a story of one of the pandemic cats that I'm watching now. My first day with her I messed up because most people book once a day visit for a cat. So this client wanted a breakfast visit and then I would program her dinner for the auto feeder so she asked me to visit before noon and I'm like yeah, okay, okay, okay. Totally forgot to make a note of it. And then I showed up in the afternoon to feed fluffy. And then I got there. Once I got there, I realized like, Oh, crap, I think this was supposed to be a morning visit and I just totally I just totally fessed up to it, I refunded her money, and I said, I'm really sorry, this isn't gonna happen again. I will see fluffy tomorrow, by noon, You have my word, and I'm just gonna refund you for this visit because I messed up. And she gave me a second chance. And I know, I've been watching that dog or sorry that a cat for three months. Though, it was interesting how that job I initially screwed it up, but I own up to it. And then she gave me a second chance.
Collin 24:47
Yeah, and not being afraid to be honest that, especially for somebody starting out or even people who've been in it for a long time. That's really scary to admit. I messed up. I didn't do What you told me to do, part of just doing your job is owning up to when you didn't do your job. And being honest about that. And as you met you you took steps to to try and make it right and let the owner know that you recognized it. And you know that that that meant something. And getting to that point of being able to say, I messed up, I'm sorry, is not easy for a lot of people.
Jen 25:22
I agree. I think we're in this societal pressure that kind of, you want to appear perfect all the time. And that's why sometimes when I'm on social media, everyone's like, Oh, just trying to be on this perfect pester on this perfect pet sitter. And I'm like, you know what, I got evicted from my first apartment because these things happen. I'm not perfect. I learned from it. But I'm not perfect.
Collin 25:53
That's a good thing to to remind ourselves on a daily basis of I don't know everything. I am not perfect. So that when things do happen when mistakes when when screw ups happen, you can give yourself a little bit of grace on that. And and if you are communicating that you are imperfect when those happen, it's not a big deal. It, you know, it is a mistake, and you are going to make corrections that it doesn't happen again, but a lot of that mental burden that mistakes and mess ups can make, like if you have this setup in your mind that you're perfect and you don't make mistakes, and then you do make one that can take a long time to recover from, especially if that person leaves a bad review for that one time that you made a mistake.
Jen 26:38
Yeah, exactly. So it's really important, like you said, how do you connect with your clients, I let them know that I'm available for feedback. And I think that is really important to be able to do just to be able to learn and grow and then also chatting with other pet sitters. How do you do this thing and then seeing whether that is going to work for my business, maybe I'll want to take some of that and incorporate into my business, but there's always you only know what you know, which is very little. So, so it's nice to just have an open mind and realize that not everyone's going to do the things the way you do and that's okay. Because you don't have to please everyone all the time.
Collin 27:26
Well, speaking of advice for other people, what recommendations would you give to somebody who's looking into getting started in travel sitting full time,
Jen 27:36
I would say that if you're thinking about it, you should just start now. So you should try to create an online presence. Maybe sign up for some websites, join some Facebook groups in order to do more research into it. And that's where you start. And so maybe you set up a Facebook page or an Instagram account. And then if you don't have any experience, then you want to start asking your friends and family if they will let you watch their animals while they're away. Maybe just take the dog on a walk, get as much experience as you can, but also documented for social media because it was not on social media never had. But um, but basically you want to build an online portfolio and then you also want to think about how you're going to market yourself because you're gonna need to write a blurb because people don't know who you are, because you're just starting out. You're going to need to write a blurb about who you are, why you want to house it. What makes you a good house sitter. Maybe you have owned a home before you're handy around the house or you like to garden, things like that. Maybe you just like to travel. I would stay away from phrases like I need money and looking for Free place to stay. While those may be the case, you just you just want to spin it a little bit differently. But there's so many people that just come out and say, I need money. Can I walk your dog? Like, that's not the best way to go about it? Do you really have to think about how you can be marketable, and how you can be a valuable asset to the other person.
Collin 29:27
One of the things to consider when starting out is what you're going to charge. And you're pretty outspoken as far as raising rates periodically and not being ashamed to charge what you need to make a living. So Have you always been like that? or How have your thoughts evolved over time.
Jen 29:44
I haven't always been like that I actually got into pet sitting because I was a poor client. So I understand what it's like to not be able to afford tech care for the animals that I've already adopted, I, you know, I adopted them, they were fine. And then life happened and I had to move, moving is expensive. And I just couldn't support my lifestyle at that moment. So I understand what it's like to be a client that has animals I needed to interview I still needed to do some things cross country where I couldn't take my animals, but I also didn't have any money. So um, so when I started pet sitting, I wanted to be a more affordable pet sitter. Also because I already had a day job. So this was just going to be like, supplemental income is gonna kind of be partially a hybrid between doing a favor for someone and doing it for money. So, so that's how I started and because my rates were low, this was back in 2012. Which was a billion years ago, everyone was charging 20 $25 a night. So, rover would add actually advertise, you can get a free night of pet care. And the rate was 20. It was a $25 voucher. So that was the going rate. And maybe that still is in some areas. I don't think it is in downtown Seattle anymore. But um, so I was working 24 hour shifts, or $25. And then what you have to do in that case is you have to take on more bookings, in order to kind of group them together to make it worth your time. And then I might Oh, so affordable, I did a decent job. So basically, I ended up being booked all the time. And also at that point, I didn't know how to say no, I didn't know where my limits were. And so I just ended up being overwhelmed with Studying, and I was working 20 473 65. And it wasn't really until my lifestyle started to change that I had to make these changes. And part of that was decreasing the amount of volume I did. The other part of it was increasing the amount that I would charge. So, um, I think also for daily dog walking and house sitting, it's a little bit different. For example, during daily dog walking, you have a finite, you're really on the clock, you have a finite amount of time, mostly between 11am and 2pm. To walk as much as many dogs as you can, and to walk and to make as much money as you can, because that's when the demand is the highest. So I realized once I moved to New York, that I could charge higher rates and people will still be And then it no longer became about, for example, what the client needed per se. Then it was about what I need in order to make it worth my time between 11am and 2pm. As far as housing goes, it's a little bit different because you're working basically, over a 24 hour period of time. You might not be working that entire 24 hours into charge hourly for housesitting would be prohibitive to most people. So I can't charge $20 an hour 24 hours a day because most people can't pay that. And because there are other sitters who will work for less. So with housesitting, I just tried to set my rate at three drop in visits per day. I personally don't charge anything for overnight because whether it's 10 extra dollars 2030 That doesn't make a huge difference to me. And then also, if I just keep it at three drop in visits per day, if I have a double booking, then I could just communicate with that client that I'm just going to be walking by two or three times a day, but I'm not gonna be staying overnight, but the rates still gonna be the same.
Collin 34:21
That's really interesting about the overnight care, because that does set up some certain levels of expectations on the clients part, as far as what kind of care and you're going to be offered. I know when we first started, when we would do overnight care we do we'd go to their home. And we would say, however many times you want or need us to come over, we'll do it for 20 bucks a night. And that that's, that's not scalable by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah, as soon as people realize, Oh, you're coming over, you know you're charging per night. So how many times you come over per day and you know, we'd say, Oh, well, three 412 I don't know. They'd say, Okay, great, but 10 times a day and walk each time. You're like, Oh, no, I really can't. Can't. Can't do.
35:15
Right. Yeah, yeah.
Collin 35:22
Have you heard about time to pet Claire from acting critter sitters as this to say
35:26
time to pet has honestly revolutionized how we do business. My sitters can work much more independently because they have ongoing access to customer and pet information without relying on me. I save hours upon hours of administrative time on billing, processing payments and generating paychecks.
Collin 35:43
If you are looking for a new pet sitting software for your business, give time to pet a try. As a listener of pet sitter confessional, you'll get 50% off your first three months when you sign up at time to pet.com slash confessional Your phrase there of needing to decrease the volume of work while increasing what you earn, so that you aren't getting burned out so that you can earn what you need to to make it worth your time like that is such a mind shift from I just want to pet animals and be around them all day. I'll do it for free. If you asked me to that kind of gets into like why it's so hard for us to raise rates. And I'm curious, you've touched on it a little bit there. But But why would you say that it's harder for pet sitters, specifically to raise the rates in charge what they need.
Jen 36:37
And like you said, a lot of people I think, go into pet studying just because the mentality is I want to make a little bit of pocket change. And I also love dogs, which is great. That's great. I think a lot of people start there. And then you can there's nothing wrong with being a hobby fitter and continuing to charge low rates for a finite number of dogs. That's it. totally great if you can offer, if you have the financial security, if you have the flexibility to offer that business model, that's great. But if you decide that you want to do it as a business, I mean, I love dogs, but I'm doing it for the money. Mm hmm. Like, I'm not gonna walk your dog for free, sorry. And that's because I know that I can do it for money. So um, so I think that is just there's just some point in time where you have to figure out if you're in it, for business, if you're in it to make money, which is totally cool. Because if you love dogs, you're going to be good at your job. And if you're good at your job, you're going to be in demand. And then as your demand increases, you can't make more time you can't clone yourself. So as demand increases, then your rates should also increase. This means you're gonna you might lose a couple clients, which is awesome. Because they will find someone else at your previous price point there's nothing wrong with that everyone has a budget that's understandable. But what you're going to be doing is you're going to be booking people who can afford a your rate and as a solo dog walker, you only need what 810 clients today. Um so that's really not in a city like New York that's not a lot of people at all. So um, so a lot of my clients they they're really busy with work and their lives and things like that. So they just want to know that photo is taken care of sometimes or home sometimes you're not like I don't I don't ask these questions. Why is your why isn't your kid walking your dog like, it doesn't matter to me because I'm being paid to do a job. They just want to make sure that is handled. So it's really just outsourcing the dog walking but they need to outsource this to someone that they know is going to be trustworthy and reliable. And then the sticker price on that it could vary depending on who you work for. So I think it's just that just taking the emotion out of it and then just realizing there are some people that can afford this to pay a higher rate and they will pay it because they just could tie this money to them and they just don't want to worry about it.
Collin 39:21
Did you ever at some point, consider bringing on another dog walker, as you got more and more busy.
Jen 39:28
I when I was starting to get busy in Seattle, I did find someone to help me out. I was so lucky. I went onto Craigslist. I can't remember the last time I logged on to Craigslist. So this must have been in 2013. No, it might have been 2014 15 logged on to Craigslist, Craigslist. First person that responded to my message was she was it. I didn't even talk to anyone else. She showed up She was reliable. She's actually running her own pet care business in Seattle now. But um, so I superduper lucked out with having a helping hand. That was, it was just a partnership. So it wasn't I wasn't like taking a cut of her money or anything like that, I would just refer some extra business to her and then on the flip side that helped her to start the business she never knew she wanted to get into. But um, so I believe more in that model, as far as we're networking with other pet sitters in order to make our businesses more efficient for each of us. I, I really hate doing paperwork. And I really impatient. So if I were to put out an ad for employees, then I know that's just a lot of work that I don't want to do as far as interviewing people go as far as setting up paperwork and legal leaves and Trying to make sure that training trying to make sure people are on time and covering sick days and things like that, that I just don't want to do because for me, it's not efficient. It's not what I'm good at. So I just like to walk dogs and cats. Very simple, very linear, extremely linear.
Collin 41:20
You said you like to have a more minimalist approach to a lot of things that you do and you were able to recognize that you did not want to go down that path. And I think so many of us get caught up in Well, the only way I can grow and the only way I can make more money is if I bring on 14 pet sitters beneath me and we you know, we tackle the world. You know, you're pushing back on that saying you don't have to just set your prices where you need them and and go from there and then you're not working like crazy and you're actually enjoy continuing to enjoy your work. Now. If you want to go manage people, by all means, go down that road and go forth and conquer but you don't have to go that way too. Have a successful business.
Jen 42:01
Yeah, I also think that as a pet sitting agency, I can't charge $60 an hour and be like, Oh, yeah, and my employees gonna show up. It's not going to be me. So I think, I think if you run an agency, it's gonna be really difficult to increase your rates as much as I do. Because, because you're selling a consistent service, whereas, whereas I'm selling me and I like to think that it's, it's a, it's kind of analogous to being like a social media manager. I don't know what goes into managing social media. But sure, anyone can do it. You don't need any kind of certifications. You don't need any kind of experience. Anyone can do it at any price point. But some people will pay more for the person they want. And that's my business model.
Collin 42:58
Yeah, no, that's really really telling and and should speak volumes people listening to this have people pay for things and services and people that they like and that they trust and that they enjoy having around that is something that people do. And if you have people, if you have clients willing to pay that by all means like that those are the people you want to keep around. You don't want people that are fussing over 15 cents or whatever for a charge. Like, you don't need that kind of stress in your life.
Jen 43:29
Yeah, exactly. And actually, I think it's funny that some of my highest rates have come from me initially saying no. So again, when they started pet care, I mean, I'd never made like a lot of money in my life. So I it's so for me to think that someone would pay more than $25 an hour for pet care was kind of crazy. But um, what it happened was when my demand started to increase and I would get these integration That said, Hey, can you walk Phyto from five to 6pm for an hour, Monday through Friday, and like, I don't really want to do that. And then they're like, well, cheers more money. And I'm like, I will see Fido at 5pm. Monday. So, with any other business, you can have an idea of what you're willing to do. Even if it's time sensitive, weekend sensitive, whatever works for you. You have an idea of what you're willing to do for the amount of for that amount of money. And there can be negotiations, especially for something like house sitting where it is 24 hours of responsibility where maybe the job is little more detailed than you thought it would. And you can absolutely say, I'm not willing to do it at this rate, but I would do it at this rate. And then if the question It says cool, then you book in. If that's not okay with them, then you just you don't take the job and then they go looking for another sitter. And it's fine. It's just business. It's not personal.
Collin 45:09
Do you been pet sitting since 2012? What kind of changes have you seen during that time, both in pet walkers in expectations from clients and just kind of a high, high level view of of the whole industry?
Jen 45:23
I think, well, I started passing through rover, so I was kind of in the baby steps of the app. So some people that started before 2012 might say that the apps were a change. I think for me, it was the introduction of GPS tracking and timing and on demand walking, which all came about around 2015 ish. So that really made me uncomfortable. At first when I started when I first moved to New York. I worked for wag a lot Because he didn't have any clients here. And so I would actually take a picture of the dog in the apartment before we went out walking because I wasn't comfortable enough to take a picture of Fido while we were out walking on the streets of New York. So that was one thing that I had to get used to just because that's the way the business is evolving. When rover cards first came out, I still don't use them because I'm really resistant to them. I'll use them if I need to get paid but but I really try not to use them. And I think that's one of That's for me is one of those switches between old school and new school, newer school that I've had to get used to. But the flip side is that clients love photos, they love a photo of Phyto honestly sunny day in front of the Empire State Building, and because of that image At that one moment in time, they think Fido had the best time ever. Like, I mean, maybe Fido had the best time ever, maybe not. I don't know, it's just right. But it really adds to the client's experience, who is paying your bills. So, so that's kind of one of those things that
Collin 47:21
has evolved to thinking of some of the changes that have occurred and especially in light of COVID-19. I'm curious about what your outlook for the rest of 2020 is, and what you're hearing from clients as far as needs or demand for future services.
Jen 47:38
We have been in lockdown for about two and a half months. Let's see April. Yeah, what two and a half months now so people are starting to come out a bit business is starting to pick up a little bit and I'm getting some weekend cats. So If people are just driving out to the Hamptons or something like that, and then also since most of my clients are working from home, a couple of those people just want their dogs to get out and to get some fresh air. And they're not used to working with Fido underfoot the whole time. So suddenly, our long walks and adventure walks are really hot right now. But um, we thought we're officially still in phase zero here. And I don't think phase one is going to look much different because I think that's only pick up from retail shops pretty much. But um, yeah, I don't know. I'm just kind of taking things as they go. I'm meeting new clients, which is great because I never would have made that buy before because I was so busy serving my existing existing clients, which I love but I also love Meeting new clients. And I don't know if my I don't know if those people if my daily clients, I don't know how long they're going to be working from home. I don't know, when they're going to come back to the city. I don't know if they're going to come back to the city. I think at least one of my clients has been laid off. So I think it's gonna be a long time before things get back to two december two Christmas 2019 levels. And I almost feel like I it's, it's 2016 I've just moved to New York and I have no clients. I almost feel like it kind of that,
Collin 49:45
that that dynamic, which is fine. I mean, I've done it before, I'll probably do it again. Have you been communicating with clients as far as your availability and what their their plans? Are they openly sharing kind of what they hope to be doing in the future, or have you been pushing some conversations.
Jen 50:01
It's a little bit of a mix. I am more passive when it comes to all of that stuff. So usually, I haven't been wanting to check in with my clients in the past, just for example, just to say some some pet care providers, they're like, Oh, we have Memorial Day. I saleability focus now. I'm not that kind of person. I just wait for them to come to me. So so some of my clients have been checking in and just being like, Hey, how are you doing? So we have little conversations like that, um, I am hesitant to check in I should probably be better about it. But just because we're in New York, I don't know who's been affected. I don't know how they've been affected and I that's a conversation that I kinda don't want to have. So I'm so I'm just waiting for people to get in touch with me whenever they need services. And whenever they're back in the city whenever they're ready to resume services, that that's just pretty much how it's always been for my business in general. So so that's just how I'm going to leave it.
Collin 51:12
Yeah, I know. It's a weird and uncomfortable position to be in of being of not wanting to say, how are you doing and then then respond with some terrible awful news and then be left there going. What do I do with this? Like, I just want to know if I want to if you if you need me to walk the dog. So that's that's really understood. Like I didn't really
Jen 51:34
it's been, it's been a little bit of a shift because I'm so business minded pretty much. Most of my conversations are very transactional, pre COVID. I would check in with my clients on Monday and be like, Hey, is it the usual schedule? I wouldn't be like, how was your weekend? Did you go party? Did you see your mom things like that? No, it was just, it was just I don't need to walk. How many walks does Fido need this week? So I'm sorry. So the flip side is that when my clients have been checking in, it's been cute. They're like, Oh, here's the daily dog on the Jersey Shore living his best life. So that's been a, you know, part of my, my inner monologue been like, this is a little weird, but it's also nice to know that they care. And, and most of my daily clients offered to keep me on payroll, but, but I refused because I, I'd like to work for my money. So so that was also touching that they were, they had a vested interest in me and they wanted to make sure that I was okay. And they wanted to make sure that I would be able to survive this thing. You know, financially.
Collin 52:43
Yeah, it's been really that's really great to hear that they've been concerned and they have been reaching out to you and you've been able to continue to stay in touch with several of them.
Jen 52:51
Yeah, yeah. Nice.
Collin 52:52
When you're not taking care of pets. How do you spend your time
Jen 52:56
a pre coded I was just working a lot. I mean, we're in New York. So if there were some shows and that would be a go see some shows or just walking around the city is always entertaining, just exploring new neighborhoods. If I had the time, then I would pick up in on demand, I'll walk through wag just to, like could walk that dog around a new neighborhood and just explore there and get paid $12. So, um, those are things that I liked. And then after COVID, I've just been kind of trying to focus more on things that don't involve running around the city. So I learned how to use Netflix, I haven't owned a TV in like 20 years, so that was interesting. just catching up on some trash TV. And I've been trying to do some different projects. I want to try to learn to groom Dogs I saw a TV right now and I am but but that was like going through YouTube like, oh how do I groom this dog and then now when I see my clients are getting such good care right now I'm like, Can I can I brush your dog? Can I give her a little haircut? Can I put a bow in her hair? Like, do you mind because I don't have anything better do it now. But yeah, and then and then they finally have been trying to guess. I am running out of excuses. So I finally had to look into how to set up a website. I had this website sitting there for a year. And GoDaddy was like your domains about to expire. You should do something about this. I'm like, ah, I like I guess I'll just try to figure out how to make a website because these are marketable skills. I should do it. Those are things I do in between this routine trash TV bingeing sessions,
Collin 54:58
and I know when Things that you've been working on for some time now has been rescue rope leads. So can you tell us about that and how it came about?
Jen 55:07
Yeah, so basically, losing a dog is pretty much a nightmare scenario. I think for me for any other dog walkers that walk there that walk strange dogs I know. Because I like to I love doing on demand dog walking, I love meeting new dogs. These dogs don't always love me because I'm a stranger. So I'm also in New York a couple years ago, there were a few months where wag had done high profile cases about dogs getting lost on fire. And that was just really upsetting to the community because I know that these kids are just trying to do the best they can do and wag has they do have a Screening system which is better than nothing, they make you do a hardest as they make you answer some questions. I mean, it's not a lot. It's not training training, but it's better than nothing. But still, there's so much about dog walking that people might not understand. So I was trying to think about a way to kind of foolproof this system of walking your dog that maybe doesn't want to walk with you or walking any dog because dogs can be temperamental, sometimes there'll be a semi that comes by and it scares them or something like that. So the rescue rope leave is basically a long line of rope leash, and then it has two clips on the end. So instead of having a clip on one end and handle on the other, it has a clip on one end and then a clip on the other end. So what I might do with this is I might take one clip, and clip it to the dog's collar, and then take the second clip and clip it to the dog harness. So Then when we're out walking, if Fido get whooped and slipped his collar piece still attached to me that is harness. So it's just a backup way to. It's just a little bit of an extra secure way to walk a dog but it's only one piece of equipment. So what I've noticed is that some of the dog walkers in the city, they will have an extra slip lead connected to the dog's own equipment or maybe they'll have a carabiner that connects all of that. But it looks very clunky, so I'm very tactful. I have always used my own leashes even before I started making them. Just because I'm familiar with them. I know what they feel like I know they work and sometimes clients can have leashes that do okay, but I want I really want to be able to perform at my best when I'm out walking the dogs if I take the leash out of the park That's one less thing to worry about. You know, I don't want to have three different leashes with three different bag holders and key chain holders on.
Collin 58:11
Yeah, it's a great way to, you know, one of the I think something's really important is using your own equipment because you get used to it, you know, that's being maintained, you know the status of it, you know how it feels, you know how it works, you're having to learn 30 new styles of clips and harnesses and all sorts of stuff in between, like, if you just have the same standard equipment, it cuts a lot of us and frustration out of it. And this is really you know, born out of your idea and your love for making things that work for you. So, how can people go check these out? what's the what's the website,
Jen 58:50
so rescue rope leads, you can follow us on Facebook or Instagram and then the website is www dot rescue rope beats.com And it's just a pretty basic website, but there is a shop on there. Just because I made the website myself over a period of 48 hours. I'm just kidding. It probably was 48 hours but anyway, um, but so I have some leashes listed in the shop, I don't have all the colors listed. So if someone has something in mind, then then they can feel free to email me and see what other colors I have in stock. Yeah, and if your listeners, your listeners can use promo code icon best for a discount on elite.
Collin 59:41
Yeah, and I really encourage people to go check that out. Because Nick and I use them on our dog walks in when we have clients come over and even for our own dog and it's they're, they're great feel like they're just you said you're very tactile like they are just very nice to hold. That's one of the things that we love about them. And then almost infinitely flexible in you can do just about any sort of connecting point or harness or makeshift whatever with them and because they're they're really long and they're just, I mean, I absolutely love ours. They're just really, really great.
Jen 60:13
Thank you. Yeah, and I just wanted to make something like I said to help out dog walkers. I mean, it's not for sure not a profitable, profitable business at this point. But I just wanted to make a product that was affordable and that would look good in pictures. You don't have a bunch of a bunch of different leashes and things hanging off the dog.
Collin 60:38
They are instantly Instagram mobile, and they just look so cool. So yeah, I rave about them. But yeah, listeners go check them out. Rescue rope blades calm and see look at them and they come in different thicknesses and different sizes and infinitely customizable too. So that's really cool.
Jen 60:54
Yeah, I'm always trying to think of new things to do. I just got in rose gold heart. Where which I, I really spent so much time looking for rose gold hardware and embarrassing, embarrassing amount of time looking for rose gold hardware on the internet. So that's available now for all of you to see little dogs
61:17
totally coordinated from head to toe.
Collin 61:22
As you've talked about adding things, you know, you've looked into grooming and you're you've got this rescue rope leads going on. Something else that you talk about frequently has been your exit plan and kind of what the end goal is for you. So, do you plan on retiring, doing dog walking and in house sitting?
Jen 61:42
Ah, no, I actually had been thinking about formulating an exit plan for at least the last year, maybe two because I realized that I love pet city, but I don't want My life to be defined by taking care of other people. And so I've been thinking about how to kind of gradually exit or in the case of pandemic, not graduating the business. But I also think because I had been preparing for something like this, then it made that pandemic a little bit more, not a little bit a lot more easy for me because I knew that I didn't have to worry about money in the short term, and that I could make things work and then that's why I just started throwing my time and energy into other things that I had just been putting off for now. So I think that I mean, I'm never gonna make a lot a lot of money I started pretty much making money and having a positive net net worth around age 40. And I don't I don't want to work till I'm like 65. So I knew that I had to make these numbers work for me. In the short term, I had to figure out my cost of living. And then I had to figure out how much money that I need to make that work how much I need to put into savings. And I think that for me, I will probably walk dogs and pets it for as long as I can. I just won't do it full time. And maybe I will do it in a different area. Maybe I'll travel more and do it and then just walk dogs here and there for for less money but just built to have some money coming in. I think that is probably what retirement would look for in the near future, which is just basically stepping back from the business a little bit more getting out of the rat race a little bit more. And you know, I also never know when my body's gonna say, Hey, I don't want you to walk 30,000 miles 30 30,000 steps a day, like, you're just not doing that. If that happens, I don't have a say in that, then I just have to stop. So I'm just starting to think of ways that I can still support myself without working this volume. I think that's what retirement means to me.
Collin 64:24
And that speaks to the importance of of having a plan. You know, earlier in our conversation, we mentioned how many pet sitters kind of get caught up in this and that affects how they charge initially. And then they get in and it's they're crazy busy a lot, or they've got other things going on. And they just don't really have time or think about 10 1520 years down the road and exactly what that looks like and the importance of just a little bit of planning and how much that can impact you down the road.
Jen 64:56
It really does. And especially this whole pandemic has really highlighted a lot of those things and I don't I only know what it's like to run my business. I don't know what it's like to have a brick and mortar store or anything like that. So, so just just in terms of thinking about finances, and how if something happens, like a pandemic that no one could have imagined, but maybe it's not offended, like maybe it's God forbid, like an injury or something like that, that takes you out of the equation, then you have to figure out how you're going to make things work. And there's still things that you can do if you've been in the pet sitting business. For example, I was looking for something that wasn't as time and location specific. I mean, there's just too much commitment, right? To be there at noon to walk your dog. That's a lot of commitment. But um, there are other things that you can do. Maybe you make tuxedo bandanas for dogs, maybe You poop scoop is a little bit more flexible. That's part of the reason why I've always been attracted to the idea of grooming. I'm like, I can just peace out for two weeks and then just come groom some dogs when I get back. I don't know if that's going to happen, because I know, especially now that like, grooming is so hard. I mean, it's nice it like it's really interesting to me right now, but I don't I don't think I'll ever be professional groomer. But, but the idea of that business model, just being able to work when you want and just have it to be more elective. There are a lot of different things you can do in terms of working in the pet industry, where people will still spend money but you don't necessarily need to be literally pounding the pavement to do it.
Collin 66:47
Right. Right. And being smart about that. And as you mentioned, like planning and looking at shifts and pivots that you can make along the way so that you can do it part time or offered new And interesting services continually.
Jen 67:02
Yeah, and I've always been a hustler. I have been funemployed many times in my life, and I have not had money many times in my life. So I, I totally understand it. But also, this pandemic is just really, really highlighting how just maybe your business model wasn't working for you before. And I try to get people to, to think about how much money you need to make how much work you need to do in order to get there. Because if you don't have those goals, and you don't know what to charge, so for example, if I, I love the idea of six figures, I don't make six figures, but I love the idea of it. So I know that six figures is $50 an hour, 40 hours a week, I don't want to work 40 hours a week. This means I have to try. This means I have to charge more. So so if I aim to make $60 an hour and I set up my day. So I'm trying to get to that $60 an hour, that's going to try to help me stay on track that's going to help me stay. I don't want to take that walk across town or blog, I don't want to take that walk across town for $12 because it's gonna take me 90 minutes there and back. It's just not worth my time. So if I have a goal, goal set, then I kind of know where I'm working toward. And if I don't make it, that's okay, but I'm still in a better position than I was if I didn't know what I was trying to do.
Collin 68:39
It just those those goals they can be so as simple and straightforward as you want or as complex but having those goals in place helps you plan and that's really what that's all about is having a plan in a way to move forward. So you don't look up and go oh no, like what have I been doing? Well, you know, I, what am I gonna do in five years, like just starting and setting little goalposts along the way. So you Know how to operate your business, how you know how to structure or you know how to price all that's tied up into having some sort of a plan?
Jen 69:07
Yes, exactly. And then once you start, once that plan starts working, then you refine your plan. You start out with lower rates and a larger business area, once you get clients, that you decrease that business area to make it more efficient, and you raise your rates. And this is all like you said, it's very gradual, a gradual process. It's not going to happen overnight. But the best time to start is just to start now, even if that means just sitting down and looking at your expenses and figuring out okay, how much money do I need to make to support my lifestyle? And how am I going to get there? Maybe that is pet dog walking? Maybe it's not maybe you need to supplement it with some other kind of psychic. Figure out what that is?
Collin 69:51
Well, in closing, I was wondering what you wish more people knew about the life of a pet sitter.
Jen 69:57
I think pet sitting is great because It's very inclusive, because there are so many different things you can do with it. You can do it at any age. I think 16 year olds are fully capable of editing some people will disagree with me that's okay. You can do it when you're 70 if you're able bodied you can do it if you're able you can do it if you're disabled, you can do it if you have chronic illnesses, you can do it if you're a stay at home mom, you can do it. If you're a college kid, there's so it's so inclusive, because there's so many different things that you can do within pet sitting. And you just have to figure out what works for you and your schedule, so that you know what kind of service that you're willing to offer. So that is clear for both you and your client in order to set up a successful business.
Collin 70:46
Well, Jen, thank you so much for coming on today. We really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your your experiences and and all the wonderful advice from setting prices to the importance of planning and your your outlook. The road ahead. I know people are gonna have more questions about travel house sitting and getting started. So how can people get in touch with you and follow along with everything that you've got going on?
Jen 71:09
Oh, yeah, I run a Facebook group called the pet care hustles you can look for that. It's pretty informal, because like I said, I just think pet sitting should be really inclusive. And it's a decent amount of means because I have a short attention span I don't have I'm not about writing blogs. If someone has a question I'll try to you know, have discussions we also talk about the finances and the numbers between pet sitting or, or other things you can do around pet to make money or just I'm always interested in learning what other people are doing. There are so many things that just blow my mind as far as things that people are paying for and, and the only way that you're going to learn about them is just by having conversations being open minded. So that's what that group is out.
Collin 72:00
Cool. Well, Jen, again, thank you so much for coming on. And we'll be in touch and hope to have you on again soon.
72:06
Okay, sounds great. Thank you.
Collin 72:08
Two things really stuck out to me in my conversation with Jen. The first one was how important it is to plan, plan for price increases, planning for the endgame. Where is this all leading for you and your business? And I know Megan, and I have a lot of work to do on that front as well. So don't feel bad if you don't have one in place yet. But sitting down and taking a few moments just to plan out the next five years, 10 years. What do you want to be doing then? And then how do you get there is so powerful because it includes everything and how your business operates. And then the second big takeaway for me was just how wonderful pet sitting is because of how inclusive and diverse It is not just for the animals that we get to take care of, but also the services that we have out there and the people we get to interact with every single day. from all walks of life across such a diverse field of backgrounds, and races and ethnicities, it really does make the pet sitting community such a wonderful place to be such a powerful thing in society. And it really gives us a lot of opportunity to connect with other people and be part of changes that we want to see take place. We do want to thank our sponsor for this episode, time to pet. If you have any sort of feedback or just want to connect with us, check out our website, pet sitter confessional calm. We're on basically every social media platform at pet sitter confessional, and we can't wait to talk to you again soon.
