244: Roundtable: Pricing Your Services
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Summary:
How should you set your prices? đź’°Because pricing is such a huge topic in the pet care industry, we asked Natasha O'Banion, Doug Keeling, & Dan Reitman to each share their mindset around pricing. With us going into a New Year, right now is the perfect time to step back and assess not only your prices, but also your mindset around charging for your services, and viewing yourself as a business owner. It's so much more than "know your worth". It's about understanding the opportunities available when you price right, and the opportunity costs when they're not set correctly.
Topics on this episode:
What is the the cost of pet care?
Why do we undercharge?
What value am I bringing?
How much can I really charge?
Main takeaway: Clients won’t always remember what we did, but they will remember how we made them feel. You can change the client experience through having the margins in your business to continue to blow them away with your service.
About our guests:
Doug Keeling: Episode 18 and Episode 53
Over the past six years, Doug Keeling has built an award winning team of in-home pet care professionals across Northeast and Central Florida. Bad to the Bone Pet Care is currently a team of 30 pet sitters and dog walkers offering fully customizable personable care and is constantly growing. It is Doug's goal to show the pet care community, and the world, that through compassion and love we can truly make a difference. Be sure to follow him on Facebook, Instagram, and his blog to follow his teams progress as we continue to expand. Feel free to email him any questions you may have about starting and growing a pet care business.
https://badtothebonepetcare.com/
https://www.facebook.com/BadtotheBonePetCare/
Instagram: @badtothebonepetcare & @thewanderingpetsitter
Daniel Reitman: Episode 29, Episode 42, & Episode 86
I am incredibly grateful and amazed to look back on the journey that this business has taken me on. I have been fortunate enough to surround myself with an amazing team of staff and I have been able to create wonderful relationships with my clients. My mission with this business has always been to provide pet owners with someone who is reliable, trustworthy and caring to care for their pets, and I am incredibly honored to have been given the chance to do so for so many people within my community for so many years. I look forward to many more years of providing the best quality pet care for your pets.
Dan’s Dog Walking and Pet Sitting website
Natasha O’Banion: Episode 59
Natasha O’Banion has 15 years of extensive marketing and sales background from the automotive industry. She has successfully occupied roles such as Client Relations, General Manager, Executive Assistant, Service Advisor, Aftermarket Sales, and Automotive Finance Manager, and she has ranked highest among her peers in sales goals, high-pressure environments, and meeting deadlines. Natasha is a highly respected straight shooter, known for her no-filter approach. Some know her as an open book, happy to share a story or moment in her life, as her empathetic nature allows everyone in her presence to feel comfortable, acknowledged, and valued.
“The pet care industry isn’t easy, and it’s surely not for everyone, but if this is what you want, stick with it, and I’ll help you get clear and focused and find a more efficient way to achieve success”
After her tenure in the automotive industry, Natasha enjoyed a well-deserved sabbatical to process her next move. Once again realizing that dogs are her first passion, she bravely decided to take on the pet care industry, thus creating a dog walking and pet sitting company, from inception to success status. Natasha is one of the few entrepreneurs in the industry to earn six figures in only six months, an incredible feat, given the short amount of time, unpredictable market, and specific arena. During this pivotal time, Natasha became a mother, and so, she put her company on autopilot to fulfill another one of her dreams – traveling freely across the globe with the people she loves most. As Natasha’s business continues to thrive, and she explores new places near and far, she has decided to reach back into the communities that have welcomed her ventures, now sharing several different ways to help others reach professional freedom and gain valuable knowledge regarding business strategies.
Links:
Previous Roundtable on The Future of Pet Care
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
clients, people, business, money, natasha, pet, price, year, dog, rates, pay, cost, industry, day, pricing, dan, services, started, doug, build
SPEAKERS
Collin, Dan, Natasha, Doug
Collin 00:17
Hi, I'm Meghan. I'm Collin. And this is Pet Sitter confessional, and open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter brought to you by time to pet. With the end of the year at hand, we wanted to bring to you a discussion that is more important than ever before for the pecker industry. Pricing. Your pricing says a lot about you, as a business owner, it says a lot about your mindset, and what you're willing to do and what you're not willing to do. Today, we're really excited to bring back our roundtable with Natasha, Albanian, Daniel Reitman, and Doug Keeling, to discuss their mindsets around pricing, right now is the perfect time to reassess all of your prices across your services, to make sure that your business is actually running the way you want it to. Ultimately, your pricing allows you as a business to do things, to invest back into the community and make sure that you and your staff, if you have them are earning a livable wage. Let's get started. I wanted to open up with a question with all of you and get your feedback on this. What's the cost of pet care?
Dan 01:25
I mean, I could jump right in, I guess, the cost. People always look at it very differently. Like we actually just raised our prices. And for the most part, very little pushback, but I was going back and forth, a client that I've known for a long time. And he was like, Oh, my costs have gone up so much. And I was like, we made a we raised our price by about 15%. And it was I think about $12 a day for four walks a day for him. But I think people look at it as we don't have any expenses. That's the big thing, I think it's a huge thing is perception is making people aware of like, you know, it's not just me paying this employee, like for at least for me and my company. We have a team of managers, we have offices, we have, you know, we have a lot of things that we as a company invest in to make sure that we are delivering the best services possible. And I think that's the big thing is like your costs, yes, is your your payroll is your insurance is your equipment, your gas, and all these things, all these things that your clients aren't aware of. And it's important to find a way at least I think, to be able to make them aware without being like, well look at my expenses that I have, there's a there's a nice way to be able to do that. And I think being able to convey costs without doing that is super, super important. So we always say things like, you know, we're investing in our team to ensure that we're able to give your pets the best services possible. We're investing in making sure that we could compensate our team members at a competitive rate, that we keep those team members that you love. It's making them aware of like, hey, this money isn't just going into Dan's vacation fund, so I can go to Bora Bora. This is going into the ability for us as a company to grow and invest in our team. I think that's really the way costless to me is I'm not an accountant, either. So you don't need to in your book.
Doug 03:15
Yeah, I completely agree with all of that, Dan, another thing that I think people overlook is the opportunity cost. And this is a discussion I have with my team alive that I have sitters that want to do like overnight stays and things like that. And every time we get a request for a gig like that, I say, you know, not only do we have to talk about the hourly costs that I would have to pay you that would go into that, but the opportunity cost of your time away from your family, your Furbabies you don't get to sleep in your home that night. That is a huge cost outside of just the financial aspects that we really have to look at and consider as as pet sitters. Me, I think the
Natasha 04:02
cost is just relative to the client perspective, just like as both you were saying. No one really knows how much a dog walker costs. No one really knows how much a pet sitter cost. I see it in Facebook groups all the time with owners are like how much do you guys think I should be paying? What are you guys paying? What do you guys think I need people actually really don't even know right before the whole wag and rover thing happened. People had really no idea that they even needed a dog walker, they needed a pet sitter, they thought their dog could just go to a kennel or go to a farm or go to a friend's house. They really have no idea like the options in the pet care industry to start. So they just do crowd surfing far as rates in prices to decide like what they feel should be a great price. Now the problem is is that us as a pet industry have decided our personal value to what we're providing. So a lot of us are like Oh, it's you know, I'm not going to charge you much of anything. It's just this is an honor This is a gift, it's a privilege, you know, all those words for me to be able to hang out with your dog and seeing your home, we put the halo over the clients to make them believe that our cost is only valued by the amount of fun we're having. So now the client perception is fun versus value. And in their eyes, they're like, Well, I'm doing you a favor at that rate, right? They, you totally switch the dynamic when you put fun to value. So in my mind, when I came into the pet industry to start, you know, coming from the automotive background, we sell high, that's all we know, we know that there is one product and another product, and we're gonna go high. And when I was looking at competitive rates in the area, I'm like, okay, so I guess like 20 bucks is around about, you know, I think a lot of us have coached like, we'll look at the highest person in your neighborhood, and then look at the lowest person in your neighborhood, and then then go somewhere in between. And somewhere in between does not afford the ability to actually live a comfortable lifestyle. So cost is I love the fact that we're talking about price, because price is like a passion topic for me. Because I want us all to live a high quality of life. And at the end of the day, when you're starting to cut price, and then when the government starting to enforce, you know, labor laws, we really just can't even afford to come to your house at the end of the day, if you really want to be frank. Yeah. Well,
Collin 06:24
that's why I wanted to start with the discussion of cost because we don't consider the cost to us. When we talk about prices, all I ever see is a question of how much should I price my services? I very rarely see the question of what does this actually costing? Me? And I know, Dan, you mentioned, there's the cost of all the equipment, the gas, that's things like that, Doug, you mentioned the opportunity cost, I could be doing something else, either probably a potential greater value for me at this time. But what it really is, is understanding that I have inherent costs in this that I have to recoup for my business and for myself, and then I start making money on top of that, that actually goes into my pocket.
Natasha 07:00
Yeah, it's one of the things that we have to bring home for the clients that we're not like Dan said earlier, we're not just here having fun. Like for me just to leave the house, I mean, just from if you're if you're a parent, okay, first of all, just to leave the house is going cost me to start then, you know, gas factory and going around town and driving to different homes to homes, and they you know, they see all the animals you have on social media, but they don't figure out how far those people live away and what it actually cost to get in the car, what it costs in mileage, what it costs in car repairs. So like even before you can even just get to someone's workplace. It's not like a nine to five job where you come in you park you pay for parking, and you go in the car stick. No, the car has to run it has to it has to stay functioning, it needs gas. And so the the cost of gas guys right now keep going up. But we're not really reflecting our rate to match what we're paying to just even start to even have a title on.
Collin 08:01
Well, and I will say that Natasha, you did touch on this fear of charging. And I will say I recently saw a comment where somebody said, I don't want to charge too much. Because I feel like when I do that's too greedy, or I'm being greedy with my services when I charge high. Back what? Okay, yeah, so Dan, you can continue?
Dan 08:21
No, this is actually aligned with this perfectly. So one of the things you know, the greed thing, because that's something I absolutely ran into. In the beginning, when I first started dog walking, I was so uncomfortable charging, like 15 bucks. For like a 30 minute walk. I charge $80 For overnights and that included walk throughout the day. And at the time, again, I was 22 years old people would be like here, eat all my food. And I was like, great, I can eat for the day, I got a cool place to sleep, I can do this. Again, this is 1215 years ago, things were a lot different. It was more of a hobby. Like I didn't plan on creating a business. This was something I was like, alright, it'd be cool. If I can make the money on the side. It is now and I think we're at the point as an industry, where we are starting to shift from, you know, this being like a side gig thing to like, for me, like we're, we're launching salary dog walkers as part of our company. For me, that is one of the most important things is I want my people to be able to have a good quality of life. And like, again, no one's gonna be driving a Bentley working for me unless we do some day trading and stuff in between walks. But other than that, I want people to be able to have a good quality of life. I want them to be able to pay their bills, be able to go on some vacation, be able to do things, because at the end of the day, that's how you get people. You know, like some of my best team members have been with me. Might you know my lead manager, Kristen, she's been with me for seven years. It's not because I've been like, Hey, here's some potato chips and you get to hang out with my dog. It's, you know, I'm going to make sure you're getting a comfortable salary and the same thing with dog walkers. We just moved three people up into a role where it's guaranteed 40 hours a week. And they're getting a week's paid vacation. And we're rolling out all these additional things. So being able to make sure that your pricing allows you to support that is super, super important. I mean, for years, I was at my parents house above 30. Because I knew, building out a management infrastructure and the team that I needed to be able to support my staff was more important than being able to go and have a bunch of fancy stuff. And I think it's really important to make sure that it is built into your pricing and you're not being greedy, you're building a business, this isn't a charity, do you want to run a nonprofit, go start a nonprofit, go volunteer at an animal shelter. But remember, in this industry, this is an industry. This is a space where we're here to make money. Yes, of course, we're here for the well being of animals, that is the number one thing but the end of the day, this is how I pay my bills. This is how I make a living. This is how your staff and my staff make a living. And it's important to remember that whenever you're pricing things out, and like, you know, I just raised prices, and I still was like, I don't know, if people are gonna be on, my staff actually cost me down for doing a $4 increase to a $3 increase. I have one client out of over 2000 People say something, I was like, I could have gotten away with an extra dollar you you over estimate how upset people are going to be because remember, this is your life. This is what you're doing day in and day out, you're a small fraction of their day, you are not super high on their list of concerns. And chances are $1 or two bump is not going to make or break the bank for most people who are using our services.
Natasha 11:38
The sound itself it's like it is that self worth talk or those those beliefs that we may have had in maybe our childhood. So money in value goes so deep with just your own beliefs. It has nothing to do with being greedy. It has nothing to do with wanting to be a millionaire. It has all to do with how much is this going to cost for me to even leave the home. I love that us three year on this conversation because we have such different perspectives on like, our past life and how we came into the pet industry. And me coming in as a financial manager. I'm like, Okay, I really want to do this. I think it would be great. But I need to figure out what service is even going to make sense. So I love Renzo Ruby, those are my two dogs. So clearly it was a passion project. But at the end of the day, I was like, Okay, where do I need to be to actually make a living. And for me, I already had a six figure income at work. And I wasn't having no insurance and no liabilities, no responsibilities, and nothing to do. So I'm like, How can I even make this make sense for me to leave my day job, and kiss all the dogs? Like I really want to how can I make the math make sense? And so it was like, Okay, well, if I have to drive around town, I'm not gonna make my salary back. If you guys are only giving me four hours a day to do this in this time window, I'm not gonna make it back. So there's so many variables that we already have in the pet industry to supply the demand that we need to think about. And so please, guys do not think about, oh, well, I don't think I can charge that much. You know, know, your worth, nothing is about Know your worth or greed. It's all about what you can articulate to the client. And like, we were saying that you can charge an extra dollar $3 to $1 is the same thing and a client perspective. But we cannot judge our value on our clients talk about, we don't know what they have going on over there. We don't know what they're gonna do. But we know based on math and process and data, what it's going to cost. And so that's what we have these conversations to write it all out, okay, if I only have a four hour time window, if I only, you know, offer this. If I only have two staff members, how much does that actually equate? And I think we get into this pickle because like Dan said, we do come in as a as a hobbyist that we did kind of sculpt the industry and I and I teach my clients everyday we feed the beast, we did this, okay, we all came in like oh, it's cool. We're just getting server gigs. There's no more like, well, actually, the government just said, I can't do ICS anymore. So oh crap, what am I gonna do? Oops, that's gonna cost $10 Extra, you know? So we got to start looking at all these variables. And I love that we have the pet sitter confessional podcast that opened the eyes of new and upcoming upcoming pet sitters and dog walkers. So let them know listen, if you're coming in as a hobbyist or a mega business star, we got to talk. We got things that work out before you even can jump in and say I'll take my first deal. Make sense? Yeah, those
Doug 14:39
are all great points. Those are all great points. I when I started pet sitting in 2013, the most money I had ever made in my entire life was $7.47 an hour. And I thought I was making bank at 747 an hour I was I thought I was living on the high horse. And so the When I first started pet setting, I had no idea how to price my services. I didn't know what the expenses would be what the opportunity costs would be. So the fact of even making a dime to get to hang out with a dog, I was like, so many of the people that we see in the Facebook groups, I was like, I'll pay you to hang out with your dog. This is amazing. This is the best thing ever. And then and I operated my quote unquote business like that for the first year. I say that because it wasn't really a business when you're operating like that. Yeah. And then when it came time for me to bring on my first person at month 11, I had to sit down and basically completely start over from scratch. Because I didn't know what money was coming in. I didn't know what money was going on. Out, I didn't know what my profit margins were, I didn't know how to increase my profit margins. I didn't know anything about anything. And I had been doing this for almost a year. So it was a huge reset for me, where I had to sit down and learn how to build a spreadsheet, how to track your expenses, how to figure out what your profit margin is for each visit? And then how do you use all of those numbers to go and determine how many hours you can give a new person on your team? How much can you pay them? Can you give them any benefits. And then you have all the other expenses that start coming in when you're not a solo Walker, such as workers comp, and like yada, yada, yada. And that's a whole nother conversation there. But I think the earlier that you can start to think like an actual business and think about those expenses, build your spreadsheet, learn. It's it's the it's not the fun stuff, but it is the stuff that will keep you in business
Dan 16:52
and allow you to do the fun stuff, too. I mean, I will say like, Doug, I was just like you except I didn't longer. I think I operated the dark for like almost five years. Like if you came to me, my first five years of business asked me what my margins were, what my profits were, it was an absolute mess. Like my books were non existent. I just knew I paid my bills, I paid my employees, but I was in this constant. And again, I was terrible with money in my 20s, I was very lucky that this business was successful early on. So I was just burned in cash, doing all sorts of stupid stuff. But being able to sit down. And you know, because if you're just starting out, you might think like, oh, I don't need this. Oh my god, tweeze like I'm talking to 22 year old me right now. Sit down, figure out your numbers. And if you're not good at it, find somebody you can fit. Like, there are so many amazing resources out there. Like, Collin, I am so grateful for you and your wife doing this podcast because I wish I had something like this when I started because I was just a bumbling idiot, stumbling in the dark, having no idea what I was doing. And you know, there's so many amazing resources out there, you know, there's just so much that you can learn, put the foundation together now. And it doesn't have to be perfect. As you grow. As you build your financial resources up, you can hire people like I'm working with Natasha right now. Because like, we're so busy that I don't have the ability to standardize some of the things we've grown so quickly over the last few years, there's so many things that we have to do, being able to have that money in the bank. COVID, again, was a perfect example. Like, you want to make sure you know what your numbers are. So you know, Alright, I gotta save this much money. Make sure you have a rainy day fund. Because man, march 24 2020, I definitely wish I did. But instead, I was crying with a glass of whiskey telling all 50 of my employees, I had to put them on furlough. And it was one of those things where I didn't know what I was gonna do. Because the first time my entire life, my income, like this has always been my baseline, I built a non profit organization while running this business, I built a tech company and sold it. But this has allowed me to do everything. And all of a sudden the rug got pulled out from under me, being able to be aware of what your expenses are is one of the most important things in the world, because that's how you're going to be able to figure out your cost. So if you take one thing for, at least for me today, make sure you know your numbers because at the end of the day, all your decisions should be data driven. Like I didn't do it that way for a long time. And there are things that worked out because of it. But there was also a lot of headaches that I caused myself, because I wasn't like doing a good financial plan for the business. I didn't have my books in order. Like you need to be able to make decisions based on the numbers because like putting your head in the sand while it might reduce your anxiety temporarily, man, that anxieties come rare it is what we have in the world, the financial problems that come with it.
Natasha 19:49
Being able to afford the cushion, like running on a day to day operation. We have to be able to afford it and at the end of the day it starts off with the client we can afford To have rainy day fund, if we're not making a profit, we can afford to take on new clients and scale and hire more staff. But we're not making a profit. We can't afford to give clients really great gifts and roll out that wow factor that we all love to do so much. We just simply can't afford it when we're running so thin. So someone has to pay for it. And I think what we need to do as an industry is just build more value. You know, I did a confessional Facebook group, why are we not charging $1 per minute? We've always charged $15 for 15 minutes, that has always been an industry quote unquote, standard since I've been in the pet industry. So we can do it for 15 minutes. Why can't we do it at 30? Why can't we do it at 45? Why are we not doing it at 60? You know, some of the clients I coach, I'm like you offering a 60 minute walk but you're only charging 12 Well, dollars extra, but you charge them at 30 Full pop, how does it even make sense. So you're going to give a whole extra 30 minutes, but you charge them the full puppet, the first 30, but the second 30, they're going to get a half a half break. Even to make money, who told you this who set this up. So I challenge us every day, like who made these pricing this this is not even like McDonald's pricing. You know, McDonald's had a huge lawsuit years ago, because their value meal wasn't really a value meal. That was a huge lawsuit. And that should be the same thing for the industry, there's no deal.
Dan 21:26
I think we could be our own worst enemy when it comes to this stuff. Because like one, one thing that you never ever want to do, when it comes to pricing, I got myself out of this. Somebody early on told me if you get into a price war, it's a race to the bottom, because there's always gonna be somebody who's willing to come in for $1, Less $2 Less, you know, I look on, you know, black platforms like wagon rover are great for doing gig work and stuff like that, like if you want to be able to do these things, in different cities and stuff like that, and kind of get jobs not have to worry about the infrastructure is fantastic. But even on there, if you if you try to undercut everybody, you know, you're just gonna push yourself to the bottom, whereas, you know, there's a psychology behind more expensive thing, there's a perceived value when Pete when something is priced higher, there's an assumption that's made, okay, maybe I am getting a little bit for my money. And it's, it's like in costume was saying, it's really important to convey that information and make sure people understand you know what that money goes towards in a way that, you know, makes sense client facing. But as an industry, we have to stop undervaluing our time because I you know, we are with the Pet Pet industry as a whole as $100 billion a year industry. And I think the dog walking pet sitting space is the smallest sliver, it's I think it's 1.7 billion or something like that a year. So we're just a tiny, tiny fraction of this huge, huge things, you have to realize, we're maybe 2% of this 100 billion dollar space, people are willing to spend so much money on their pets. And that you need to make sure that you're pricing yourself correctly. So you can deliver the value because you know your chart, if you decide, You know what I do need to increase my price by an extra $3 a walk now for an individual client an extra, what is that an extra 60 bucks a month, but you now multiply that times a couple of 100 clients, that gives you the money to maybe hire a full time manager, which then means you can then step back. And you know, you can see the iceberg, you could start to guide the ship a little better. And you could focus on the growth and development of the company. Or you can put out different kinds of programs like you know, Natasha does amazing work with she's doing e commerce stuff right now, there are so many great things that you can do with this money. And also, you know, bonuses and things like that stuff to keep your team around like we as an industry, if we start to increase our prices in a way that makes sense. And it's done unilaterally across the country. And obviously, there's going to be different prices based on different demographic parts of the country where you're at. But if we keep doing this race to the bottom thing, like you're only hurting yourself, because like I'm telling you right now I'm done with it. Like I'm cool. Even if I'm five bucks more than my competition. Like, I know that I'm currently the most expensive company in my service areas. I'm fine with that. Because people are willing to pay for you get what you pay for. And people are willing to pay for my services because they know that, you know, I always say we're not in the dog walking business. We're in the peace of mind business. When you hire us. You can breed you can know that you can go about your day, you can go on vacation, you can you know, take your wife to the hospital because she's having a baby or this is happening like the dogs, the cats, all the animals in our care. They're they're getting the love the attention and the services that they need. So you can go about your day as a pet owner.
Collin 24:42
Yeah, and I think what you're what we're touching on here is this the value that we're bringing to people and how these services are structured on their life. I think I read a stat recently that said something like 30% of dog owners would pay for their dog's medical needs before their own medical needs. That should tell you how people are perceiving their pets. Doug, when it comes to understanding the value that we're bringing to our clients, how do we start wrapping our brains around that?
Doug 25:13
Yeah, there's a lot of things you can do in perceived value that that Dan touched on is so, so important. And that is something that I did not understand my first several years in business. And I kept getting problematic clients, because I had bottom of the barrel prices. I thought, if I had the lowest prices around, I'd be able to get the most clients and that that would be just the best thing ever to have all the clients, you know, who knows what my profit margin is on these clients, okay. And, but they weren't, they were problematic clients. And it got to the point where we were going to areas of town that we did not want to be in, we were doing gigs that we just were not comfortable with. And as I started to raise my prices and offer more things with our services, we stopped getting those kinds of clients. And we started getting clients, you know, in the waterfront beachfront homes. And I can tell you, it is always better to work with two or three of those high roller clients than 20 of the bottom of the barrel clients. Those clients will burn you out, they will make you question your entire existence. But those high rollers are clients that see the value that you are bringing to their lives, they will pay for that, and they will appreciate you, they will stick with you for the long run, you know, that those bottom of the barrel clients, their discount chasers, they're there for the discount. And as soon as you start to raise your prices to what you think you should be charging, you're going to lose those clients. So just go ahead and and market yourself, market your services and provide enough value within your services that you can charge what you need to charge two, to give your team a good living wage and give yourself a good living wage and those clients will stick with you way longer than those bottom of the barrel clients.
Collin 27:19
Are you looking for new petsitting software, dog actually has quite a lot to say about it
Doug 27:23
time to pet has made managing my team and clients so much easier. Our clients love the easy to use app and scheduling features. And our sitters love being able to have all of their information organized and easily accessible. My favorite feature is the instant messaging by keeping conversations on time to pet we are able to monitor our team and ensure nothing ever falls through the cracks.
Collin 27:43
Are you looking for new petsitting software in the new year, give time to pet a try listeners of our show save 50% off your first three months by going to tide pet.com/confessional. There's a pushback on that where somebody will say, but I live in a really small market I live in a really rural part of of my town or my area. I can't charge those high prices. And what am I supposed to do in my area?
Natasha 28:08
He says you can charge whatever the resorts are charging your clients who live in a small oil town or going to Jamaica, going to Mexico or visiting families all across the world. And those rates are not changing when they get their United Air. You know knighted southwest, they're not changing their rates based on where you live in the world, are they the same flights and going to the same locations as everybody else. And no price has changed based on where they live. Clients will pay for whatever they want to pay for. They don't have to be, you know, millionaire clients. Like you just said earlier column, they will pay for what they value, they will go to the dogs vet bill before they already go to their own insurance. And we're not saying anything about what they're willing to do. We're just saying that listen, the pet is equally your child. So yes, you are doing the right choice and a right decision by putting your pet first. We're not saying oh, well, they're willing to pay for it. So let's charge it. We're not saying that at all. We're saying that the client understands that their dog is equal to their child and we should understand that too. One of my mentors told me if you are the lowest you cannot be the best period. Yeah, you cannot be the best if you are the lowest. So always remember that when you are writing out your pricing. Wait, what the thing that is all three of us. You know Bad to the Bone Renzo Ruby and DNS pet care have in common is we saw the value to go ahead and rebrand our entire brand. These are brands that were already six figure brands living on their own, but even us three saw that we needed to hire the best branding and pet care doc design and go ahead and do a facelift. All of us. Yeah, why? Because we know that we're rolling up the rate. We're like, Yo, this brand right now is going to add an extra $5 On every service. They're gonna someone's paying for that. And the clients are like, whoa, we see exhibit A, that's charging this. And then we see rollout super cool clean lines, modern, you know, Lipin, and then to the new century with me on a brand face like any other brand of their supporting like a Starbucks, right? They see that brand loyalty now and they're like, Whoa, this is why I'm going to be paying more money because look at them and then look at you. At the end of the day, we do judge books by their cover. And that's the first thing we look at first, hey, oh, this is a really cool cover. Oh, wow, look at look at the back, look at the font, look at look at look at the paper they're using. That all mean something. So just start there. But we all can tell you that you don't have to have those facelifts to make money. We've all have made money. But we do understand what it does inquire when you're trying to raise rates and have a sustainable business, we want to go the legacy route here, we want to go the peace, peace of mind route. And if we're killing ourselves, as providers, we cannot provide from an empty vessel. I will say that one more time, we cannot give anything from an empty vessel. And if you guys are running around town, forgetting your last name, haven't had meals, wondering when you're going to see your family again, because you're killing yourself in this game, we got a net lease make it make sense, the profits gotta make sense, the joy in our hearts are the rewards got to make sense. And being able to see the income in our bank account and have an emergency fund that all has to make sense. And it comes to price.
Dan 31:29
Yeah, also on the pricey side, so I'm a bit of a bleeding heart. So usually when there is a situation where, you know, we've come across clients who you know, they've had some terrible loss in their lives or something horrible has happened or not a good financial situation, the end of the day, for me, it's always about the well being of the animal, but when you're priced correctly, that gives you breathing room on the other side of things that gives you the ability to be able to like, you know what this person really does need my help, I'm gonna give them a deal. Now you don't want to make this your business model. Very excited. You want to make this your business model but like, again, like, it depends on who you are as a person. I've always said that my heart is kind of my biggest weakness when it comes to business. But at the same time, I think it's one of the things that has really helped me over the years is like, you never know who's good, somebody knows. So, for me, I will go out of my way to help people that are not in a good situation. But it's because I have my pricing at a point where I can afford, alright, I'm going to give this person a deal. Just because, you know, I want to make sure their animal has what they need. And it's really important to be able to do that. And also, like montage this thing with the brand. This is my old logo, we haven't gotten our new shirts and yet, but like, if, if and when you can afford it building your pricing up is going to give you that little buffer and you know, working with an amazing company like Doc initially might seem like, Whoa, this is a big investment, especially if you're just a couple years in, man, when I tell you it is so worth it like I look so I have my old pickup truck out front of my building, and I have my new pickup truck. My old is look, it looks it's so bad compared to like the new branding. It's just it we look like, before we look we look like a brand that's going to be scaling nationally. And that's the whole thing is, you know, perceived value. It's not just about what your prices are. It's about like what people see like your website, your social media, that is your modern day storefront. You know, we're not opening brick and mortar businesses like we used to you this is how people are seeing you. And if your stuff kind of looks like, you know, some random clipart laughs together and it says kind of looks like and there's no cohesive nature to what it looks like. Not everyone's gonna see that. But a big big chunk of our clientele are these millennials are the width of the younger Gen Z Gen Z. The young people generation was young, whenever they have the the young blood saved, look at this. And they do pay attention to this stuff. This is a much more educated consumer base than the older generation. These are people who are aware they do know the market, they do their homework, their pet boomers love their pets, millennials and everyone below their family like it is it is such a growing trend towards you know, a lot of people aren't having kids anymore. They're having their dang pets. And they are for me like Ruby. I've had her only a week, I would die for her. She is my family. I love her so much. And that's something that people want to see is like, Who are you hiring? Who is it's not just like, you know, even if your solo company. When I first started, I would answer the phone in a different voice. And I would be like hi this is blah, blah, blah, oh, let me transfer you the data and put it on hold. And then I would answer it in a different voice. I would always say we I would always say us when it was just me because I knew perception wise, you know, I don't like the term space. until you make it but sometimes it's really about managing expectations and managing that perception. Because I knew I eventually would have employees like but again, like Natasha was saying to, you will burn yourself out my first two years in the industry, I spent over 300 days sleeping in other people's homes. And that second holiday season I was working in this is not an exaggeration, 19 hours a day, seven days a week, to the point where on New Year's Day, I woke up at a client's house. I couldn't see straight through up. And my brother had to come drive me from house to house to house because I couldn't see like I was able to get the dogs I got home, I had 103 Fever, I had burned myself out so badly to the point I was like, Okay, fine, I'll hire an employee. Don't do that. It's not worth it. I missed so many holidays, so many family events, like I also very aggressive with the way I'm trying to grow my business. So I'm trying to work on how to do that better. But at the end of the day, like if this is something you're passionate about, and this the career you want to be in, you got to make sure you build the right foundation for yourself, like learn from my mistakes, because I wish I could go back in time and be like, Hey, stupid, you should probably go talk to some people who actually know what they're doing instead of just being an arrogant, awful 22 year old thinks he knows everything, go learn from people. Again, I don't know everything, but I want people to learn at least from my mistakes, so they can be better, and push the industry forward to selfishly, the more people can learn from me, Collins, Tasha Doug, and all the other amazing people in our space is going to level up the industry as a whole. And the more we level up, the more we'll be able to charge, the more service we'll be able to offer, the better we'll be able to be as a space. And I think it's just something that's going to only just improve everyone quality of life,
Natasha 36:48
even if you are so new and you plan to stay there unregister you the question? Would it be better to service 20 high quality ideal avatar clients at a premium rate, versus having only 20 of the lowest clients you can get that are always questioning everything you're doing and not giving me the value that you're giving to them. If I was a solopreneur, man, if I was doing Nitasha, when I first started doing solo business by myself, and I only did solo for two months, because I was like, I can't do this. If I do this, again, I'd be charging $50 per client doing this all over again. $50 per client, I would only take 20 clients, if I was solopreneur. That'd be my strategy. And guess what 1520 People would pay those rates. Because there's always out there willing to take what you have. Everyone has something to offer, you know, I could sell the crap out of why solopreneurs the best option for your family, I can sell the crap out of why having a company is the best option for your family. So we're not saying which route you should go on, you take whichever route you want to, but you hold that line and you be the best and the greatest that ever was being your space. And you get that money cuz you deserve it.
Doug 38:03
Hell yeah, you deserve it.
Collin Funkhouser 38:09
Yeah, I think you know, what I love here is we're talking about this kind of triangle of cost, price and value, you know that again, we start off by talking about the cost is what we incur as a business as an individual to provide the service. The price is what we offer our service to the client, what they're going to pay, and the value is what they receive. And it's connecting the dots through there. And Natasha mentioned, finding that avatar finding that client so that all those line up exactly how you want because then that's what's going to start getting people to come to you and they will be attracted to your business. Eventually,
Natasha 38:42
I can imagine all the things that I would give to my clients if I'm at that premium, right. Like I like we all like to give back. We all like to treat our clients well. I would like to rule out the word carpet, we like to give the wow factor. All this extra money that I'm like 20% just goes to just wowing my clients socks off. Like How amazing would that feel? We're gonna remember that price comes with a feeling. And if you can make someone feel good, or feel pampered or just really taken care of, they will remember that forever. And that's really guys what we've paid for is that feeling I want to get that high again. I want to get that chase that when I go into that business, oh, they take care of me and my babies. Oh, I can't wait to get back to them. Oh, how much is this gonna cost whatever, just take it just take money because I want that feeling. And when I go on vacation and I know that my dog is captured for my cats and my birds and the goats are good. I'm getting these cool photos and these emotions that I can just feel how you feel about me and my family. That price is priceless. There's no ticket for that. And as us for World dog owners and cat owners, we know what it's like there's no price, whatever they charge for Renzo and Ruby, it's getting paid period. I don't care what the price is. Because You my friend are the best in town. And I want you every single time.
Dan 40:01
Yes, it's very important to remember, you know, people won't always remember what you did. But they'll always remember how you made them feel like that's like how our brains work. So it is very important and also was attached to saying, being able to take that extra money and invest in your client, your first thought might be like, well, you know, I kind of would like to give myself a bonus for this, I'll tell you, I put a lot of money into things we give to our clients and things that we do and events that we host and things like that, you get that money back tenfold, like you, you, you need to be comfortable not only with, you know, pricing yourself correctly, but investing in not only your team, but investing in your clients. Because those little bit like this holiday season, we're sending out a bunch of stuff from our store, completely free to our clients, like our people who spend like a fair amount of money with us, but because one, they spent a ton of money with us, and I want to give back to them. But I also know, I've, I like the stuff that I made, I will wear it. And I know it's something that people now see it out. It's like, perfect example, Doug did a post about a shirt that he bought from us. I think within 10 minutes, we got to sales. So things like that people will post these things, people will share the stuff, it's important to make sure you're putting money back into it like, yes, the price increase is great. You can pay yourself more money. But you also have you can't think short term, you got to think long term like what can this do? Like we've been doing some like Instagram lives, or I've just been like randomly like, Hey, we're giving away some stuff, DM us your address, and I'll send you a hoodie, those kinds of things. It might not, you know, cost me 3020 bucks in that moment. But that person might go ahead and and post something on social their friends via a tag us and give them the link, boom, we just sold another thing, then it just kind of becomes a beautiful feedback cycle. The same thing like Natasha said, you roll out that red carpet for your clients, they are going to have such a good experience. They are your best advertising. Like I do car wraps, I do all these other things to get the name out there. I'd say 70% of my business comes from word of mouth. It's just I can't believe like for me, anytime there's a touch point with a client, my number one goal is to make sure that they walked away from it being like, holy crap, I can't believe that was a dog walking company. Because there's a perception of what a dog walking or a pet sitting company is. It's something that, you know, someone does, you know, the local neighborhood kid or someone doing this as a hobby, they go like i i plan on building a billion dollar company in our space. Like I plan on being a huge force to be reckoned with. And I think that that is where we need to be thinking again, that's if that's what you want to build. And again, like I agree with Natasha go the solopreneur route. So the company route, whatever you want to do, but go at it with tenacity and the mindset of like, I want to make this the best that I possibly can.
Doug 42:46
Yeah, yeah, I think it's important to remember that there is a market for everything everywhere. So if you are someone in a rural community somewhere and you're worried about raising your prices, think about who you want to be working with, and what those people care about. And then focus on that, you know, sometimes those people the free hoodie that Dan's talking about, that could be your end, so you get in with those people, there's a market for everything everywhere. For us right now, you know, we've we raised our prices twice this year, once in January, and then once just last month, we lost no clients over it, no one complained. And I am using a huge chunk of that price increase to pay for like actual portraits done by a local artist for our top clients of their pets. And he's doing a couple for us each month, I'm sending them out as as I get them. And every single one of those portraits they cost me like 3040 bucks. And those clients are going they're showing their neighbors or showing their friends, they're posting it on social media, which is getting more people like them, people that I thought I had no way of getting as clients just a year ago. Now I figured out what they care about. I figured out how to give them that and now they'll pay my rate
Natasha 44:14
we have to decide where we can get the cash The cash is in somebody else's pocket. So you do not feel comfortable. Number one, let me just say this unpopular opinion that has been taught in the pet care so far, and you guys know I'm always good for unpopular opinion. You do not need a rate increase letter to your client as a pet sitter. If you are a pet sitter and you raise your rate, guess what the next time they go on your website and book that service they're gonna see the increased rate. So if you get an anxiety right now about writing an increase letter and telling your clients rates are going to be increased. You do not have to do that Chipotle does not send me a letter every time they raise wha they do not do that. Because petsitter is signed agreeable service. It's start to finish. So once you've finished that agreement, and you'd clock out of the last tech debt, that agreement is now over into the next time they sign up again, you only need rate increase letter, if you're offering a recurring dog walking monthly revenue service, or you're changing their subscription, that is when you provide the increase letter. But if they have said, I need January 1 January 10, after January 10, it's fair game again. Don't be afraid to just put the rates on your website and rock with it. Also, if you don't want to give that letter out to your current clients, change the rates for your new clients put it on your website, we did a whole test that automated see all of my current clients automated SEO or at least at $1 $1 per minute, or pretty close to $1 per minute, every single one of them. We did a test that put it on your website. Every new client booked $30 Every new client, they're like, holy crap. Are you kidding? Oh, you have a waitlist? Oh, you're not taking any new clients. Okay, cool. So it's a no risk situation, right? Go ahead and put on your website. Let's see who booked bullshit you're not they kept getting clients booking 30, booking 30 bookings, they they're like, oh, shoot, I gotta raise my new I said, Don't get all fancy and chatty. Raise your rates now on your current clients. Leave them alone, because that wasn't in our plan. But go ahead and get her new clients at the same capacity as your current clients. And then you can go messing around with your current client. But if you guys like, Listen, I don't know about this. Guys, this all sounds weird. I don't want to do it. I don't want to write the letter. Don't read the letter. Don't write it. Don't do anything. Just add it on your website, your new pricing. And watch how many people book your new rates and then go from there. That's going to give you an instant confidence if that's everybody's homework for this week.
Dan 46:47
And if you're feeling weird about doing it again, I'm working in Natasha right now. She's making me do this. I feel weird about it. We're still doing it though. Because again, you know, Natasha and I have we have different backgrounds and I work as a vet tech for years and I started this business and everything I've learned I've learned basically on the job, she came with a completely different set of skills, different background, and you know what I'm leaning on her to be like, You know what, let's give this a shot and getting pushback and some team members on it. But at the end of the day, you got to sometimes just take the week and you got to trust that at the end of the day if you give the information like we've been saying the people who are willing to pay your prices and the people that you want you don't want bargain hunters I met I did a Groupon when Groupon first came out the time it was breaking great marketing exposure. I look back on it. I was making like $6 a wash off of the group don't discount anything. Discounts are terrible I hate them we just made our packages charge what you're worth and listening to Tasha she's got really good idea. She knows what she's talking about.
Natasha 47:50
All that crazy, crazy idea to have the conversation I want to say and I want to leave it to you guys that love hearing you guys talk all the time. If you guys also are nervous about raising rates look at Dan's business right now. He just rolled out he calm look at Doug's business right now. He's rolling out he calm he has a great YouTube channel. You guys if you don't want to raise rates right now, raise it somewhere else. Go open up a store, go start online training course I'm a huge proponent of all online things right now post COVID I am not running business the way that I ran business before COVID Everything is different. Everything I coach is entirely different post COVID. If you do online training, now you have a revenue Gen that's going to be helping you get those rates if you're just really afraid to do it. It's the money up online training course it is a clickable why you sleep training program and someone can buy and you can make money there. yourself an online store, you got print on demand options. There's just no reason why you shouldn't be making money while you're sleeping. to overcompensate what you're doing in the field. So if you're in a city life, or royal suburbia, and you're like, you know what I just so guilty, I can't do it. Fine, be that person, but get money somewhere else. So you can compensate yourself because we don't want whatever way you shake this hat. We don't want you burning yourself down to do so. In money is the answer when it comes to doing business. Business means money, guys, okay? Period. Now if you want to have friends and lovers and relationships, that's different but business, profit, profit first in business? Yeah.
Dan 49:29
If you are looking to set up a store, don't worry about like, Oh my God, I don't have money for inventory. We didn't do that we use Printful Printful is amazing. You can have this huge catalog of all these amazing products. And you don't have to do anything. People buy it. You get your cut principle prints, ships, it everything like until we know exactly what our market was. That's what we're doing. And once we get to a point where we're getting a steady flow of of clientele, buying our merch, then we'll start to produce our stuff on our own. It's very, very low risk. I highly, highly recommend it. But it's definitely, you know, like this is just saying, like dug myself for doing. You got to diversify your income stream. You know, we built a online dog training course that we launched during the pandemic, we started our E commerce stuff. We're working on affiliate sales, we're building out a ton of blog content right now, we're Mauro and I are going to be relaunching podcasts that we're going to be doing a whole bunch, like, do all these things. And again, remember, by pricing high enough, you could pay people to do the dog walking, you could hire managers, and then you get to do the fun stuff, like filling pools with tennis balls, and eating dog treats on the internet, because those are the only things that I like doing.
Collin 50:37
Mainly to talk about that last one.
Dan 50:41
And go subscribe to Doug YouTube channel. It's amazing. He's putting up as pastic. Like, this is the kind of stuff that I wish existed, like every question you're gonna have, you're, especially if you're new to this, go on his YouTube, he's answering all this stuff, and he's doing it. Well. It is good, helpful stuff. There is so much content, you're walking dogs all day, pop your headphones in, listen to a YouTube video, listen to the podcast, there's so much free information out there. You can be learning all the time.
Doug 51:09
I appreciate that. Dan, thank you. One of the reasons I created this YouTube channel was a because something like this didn't exist, like the petsitter confessional podcast, these things did not exist. When all of us started our businesses and I know that have this podcast existed eight years ago, I would be running a million dollar business right now. And, and I will be able to run a million dollar business very soon, because of the things that I learned through all three of you and the community that Kahlan and Megan had built. I mean, we're all in this together. We're all learning together. And those of you that get stressed and anxious when it comes to these pricing questions or anything else like this, I mean, you can always reach out to me on Facebook, I know Natasha, you know, you've got a great thing set up helping people. I mean, we're all in this together in the pet industry. And I think a lot of people don't value this community as much as they shut in use it, you know, use us, we've made the mistakes, we want to help you make good decisions, because like Dan said, if we're raising the bar for the entire industry, and if everyone is making better decisions, then we can all do bigger, better things together.
Natasha 52:27
That's what it's all about.
Dan 52:29
The industry overall, the pet industry from 2019 to 2021, increased by $12 billion. It was in like 11% Jump over two years, during a pandemic where the economy collapsed. This went up, like this is a booming, booming business. And again, I every single possible mistake you could have made. I've made it 10 times over everything you could have done wrong, every single mistake you can make with clients, employees, I used to make employees cry, I was terrible. I am happy to help answer any questions. DM me on Instagram DM the company like I'm here to help we all want to see you succeed.
Collin 53:09
Yeah, absolutely. I
Collin Funkhouser 53:09
know, we all recognize that there's a chronic problem in undercharging and undervalued businesses, because we don't perceive that value in ourselves. And when we talk about how do we change that it starts with one person at a time, it starts with recognizing that you have value you have worth that you're worth something, and sharing that with others. And I'm so happy to have this conversation today to start lifting people and hopefully encouraging them to take another hard look at their numbers to allow them to start seeing where those costs are. Then recognizing the value that their clients receive because of their services. That takes some time that takes them understanding. And so I really appreciate this conversation with with with you all it's been enjoyable and thoroughly entertaining as always. But I want people to reach out to you to get connected to start picking your brains. So Natasha, how can people start learning from you?
Natasha 54:01
I just want to say shout out to Collin and Meghan for expanding to Springfield on them. You can just call their brains about that transition and what that cost is gonna look like being in a whole new territory. Love you guys and I'm like I just You just even you guys I've seen so much evolved just from day one and petsitter. confessional to now I'm like a big boy hangs up the game already. You guys stay tuned to this podcast because they're gonna be having a lot to say about that experience on its own. But you can catch me on the Monday episodes I love coming in. I love talking to you guys. I love hearing your feedback. My heart's passion is just changing the game. You know, when I quit my job everyone was like you're crazy. How are you going to leave Lexus and go pick up? What the hell are you thinking? Are you okay? Are you depressed? And I'm like, No, I got a game plan and I'm gonna do this and it's going to be great. I'm gonna do with runs on Ruby. Okay, so you guys see pick all of our brains. We all love you guys, we all want to support you. But it is so important for all four of us to really change the pack game. What we have seen in the 1990s and the early 2000s. It's old school, and we're not doing it anymore. We're moving this thing forward and we invite you to jump on the bus with us and help us. So see me on Monday petsitter confessional right here, or send me a DM and we'd love to help.
Collin 55:26
Doug, you have a lot going on on your YouTube channel as referenced before where there's just a ton of information and you're knocking those questions out of the park. How can people get with you?
Doug 55:35
Yeah, check me out on YouTube. It's bad to the bone pet care on YouTube. Look me up on Facebook Bad to the Bone pet care there, or Doug Keeling. And Bad to the Bone pet care on Instagram as well. You can email me if you have any questions want to schedule a zoom call with me. That's Doug at Bad to the Bone pet care.com. You know, I love just answering any questions I can like I said, we're all in this together. We all want to raise the bar for the entire industry. And like Natasha said, Just huge shout out to Collin and Meghan. I mean, I'm watching your Facebook posts. It was about the expansion into Springfield. And I am so excited for you guys. And I cannot wait to see what you put into the podcast about this transition process is going to be so exciting.
Collin 56:25
Thank you. It's definitely been a learning process for us a lot of growth as well, Dan, you've got a lot going on with your rebrand and everything. But where can people get in touch with you?
Dan 56:38
So I'm going to I'm going to hop on the bandwagon and say a big shout out to Collin and Megan, one congrats on the expansion but to again, seriously, you guys have done a fantastic job creating such a large library of content and resources for people in our industry. So for real if you haven't subscribed to these guys yet, hit follow. Hit subscribe, hit all the buttons on whatever platform you're on. Just do it. While you're there, though. Go ahead and look up. Let's talk about zoo animals. It's not a pet industry podcast, but it's me and my media director Morrow, talking about things relating to animals. So we have three segments. One is called cool animals, people where we interview people like Dr. Evan Anthon we just pat Cristina Mittermeier these are people who I'm like blown away that they're even willing to talk to us. We also have wiped out Wednesdays where we talk about really cool extinct animals from history. And then we have our base podcast which is let's talk about Glenn Moser we talk about specific animals. From all sorts of really cool stories about a pigeon named share me who's shaved have saved over 200 people's lives during World War One. All sorts of amazing stuff as far as company and me. We're at Dan's pet care across the board. So Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. Oh, please go follow us on tick tock. We're trying to grow and tick tock. We're way too overleveraged on Instagram, our YouTube channel we are buffering up content you can visit my website. If you want to contact me personally. I'm Daniel Lightman across the board all one word, Daniel Reitman, Instagram, DM me DM the company. It'll get to me at some point. So if you have any questions for me, I'm more than happy. And if you're interested in checking out some of the amazing merch that Doug bought is Dan petcare.com/store. We have a ton of amazing stuff that was designed by the wonderful team adopt design. So those are all of my things. Go check it out. But again, I'm here to help pick my brain. This is what I'm here for. And thank you.
Collin Funkhouser 58:31
Yeah, it's been again, thanks so much. I'll have links to people can click on those on the website, shownotes. And all that stuff. Because there's just as you all mentioned, there's a ton of information out there, there's ton of resources, we don't have to be doing it alone, we don't have to be a feeling like we're the only ones struggling with the things or the pricing or how we work through this. You don't have to try and answer all those questions in your own brain. There are places to get those those are good resources that we can all get plugged in. And that's what's really going to help us be all better at the end of the day and help make the industry what we all really want it to be, which is the best possible. So again, thank
Collin 59:04
you all so much for coming on the show today. It really means an awful lot. What do you want your business to be able to do? For you? That was one of my biggest takeaways from a conversation with Dan dug in Natasha is that our businesses get to do things in and of themselves. And they can only do things if we're making money to do them. Do you want to give a Christmas gift to your clients in 2020, to have good pricing to give you that margin, want to be able to donate to a good charity from your business, have good pricing to do that. Want to earn more money to do things in your life to go places to travel, to see things with family or to go off on new adventures have pricings that allow you to do that or allow your staff to do that as well. It all comes down to pricing fundamentally and that may feel icky and we might not really like thinking through that. But because we run, yes, we run businesses. We need money in order to do that. It's always a fun topics, not the thing we like talking about, but we worry about it an awful lot. There are so many questions all the time about what I should price, how much I should charge. It's something we think about every single day. So why not make sure that it's working for us, so that our business is working for us and our business can do things and invest and encourage and make our clients feel amazing. We want to thank time to pet for making today's show possible. We've had a truly wonderful 2021. And we've really enjoyed watching you grow, expand, learn and invest in your business this year. We are so excited for what you have in store for 2022. And we can't wait to hear from you. So thank you so much for listening. It's been an amazing year. We've got so much more planned for next year. And we are really looking forward to it. So have a wonderful, Happy New Year. And we'll talk to you soon
